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Author Topic: SureColor P9570  (Read 46632 times)

Rand47

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #180 on: July 07, 2020, 02:13:26 pm »

Thank you Jan,
That is basically what I am asking...I shoot a lot of 8x10 and 4x5 as well as high resolution digital, and some of the prints I make are small, so I am often able to print at the full 720 dpi, and as I described, when doing museum work of a similar nature, I have found that the higher resolution does help the print match the darkroom prints better. In any case, it sounds like I will need to run my own test to see how much of a difference it makes when looking closely at the prints. I am aware that any difference would most likely not be visible from more than a half meter or meter away.

Stuart,

Stating the obvious here, just in the name of being thorough.  With the 75xx/95xx printers you print at either 300/600.  So for higher resolution images you can (should) use 600.  As I said, in a “blind test” at anything other than “loupe inspection” type pixel peeping, I’m reasonably sure you’d not see any difference at all (and maybe not then either). As an example, on 17x22” prints made of Bill Atkinson’s printer test image, I printed from my P5000 (360/720) and then identically from my P7570 (300/600) the prints were identical except that I think the tonal transitions, dMax, detail in shadows, etc. was superior on the 7570 “from across the room.”  My wife is always my “blind tester.”  I had her take a look at the prints side by side under my 4700k solux lit inspection wall and asked her which she preferred and why.  (She’s an artist / painter.)  Her evaluation matched mine down to the comments I made above, completely unsolicited.

I’d be happy to send you a print made from one of your own files, if you’d like.  If so, PM me and we can make arrangments. 

Rand
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JRSmit

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #181 on: July 07, 2020, 02:35:40 pm »

Thanks for the blow by blow details of doing Epson's beta testing for them. It sounds like most of the bugs are now worked out of the P7570.

I'm new to large format printers, current printer is the 3880, I'm researching 24" printers for printing on lighter weight papers, in the 75 to 150 gsm weight, for use in large artists books/folios. Papers such as Ilford Washi Torinoko fine art (110 gsm) or Hiromi Asuka (75 gsm). Any thoughts or experience on how the P7570 or P7000 will handle these papers, both roll and cut sheets? Some of the paper feed/skew comments on the 7570 make me nervous.
Getting the paper feed correct, the head alignment correct and the correct platen suction is the basis for fine results, and even more critical with dual head. Do check the paper thickness as well!
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StuartR

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #182 on: July 07, 2020, 04:01:59 pm »

Thank you all, and thank you Rand for the kind offer. My local dealer has a 9500 in his offices, so I will be able to run my own tests at some point, but it is helpful to hear your thoughts. I am asking more from curiosity than any expectations the the results will be noticeably worse.

Regarding very thin papers for bookmaking, I have made artist books using Awagami papers on the P9000 and did an exhibition of my work on 170x220cm scroll paper at 45gsm (using two rolls and combinging them banner style). The handling of very light and very thick papers is a big concern for me as well, and the more automatic and closed gap loading are less features than worries for me. I would rather have a more open and transparent manual loading system, rather than one that is more automated, as these printers tend to do whatever they feel like at all times anyway...if it works, it is great, but when it does not, it leaves you with very little you can do about it.

So suffice to say I will be testing the Awagami papers and Hahnemühle papers to see how they are handled. I have used Epson papers perhaps five or ten times in the last twelve years of doing this professionally. If the P9500 cannot handle fine art media, then it is worthless to me and my clients. My hopes are pretty high that it will handle them just fine, however. 
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Rand47

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #183 on: July 07, 2020, 04:09:16 pm »

This may be helpful.  Paper thickness setting range of 75xx/95xx from manual:



Rand
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StuartR

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #184 on: July 10, 2020, 07:45:57 pm »

Thank you Rand. Glad to hear that it can be set up handle very thin papers. Now it just needs to be tested to see how well it does with them!

By the way, can anyone speak to the noise of the printer? Is it quieter than the P9000? I saw one in action briefly, and it seemed quieter than the P9000, but it could have been the acoustics of the space. My printer is located behind my computer, and I have to admit that the vacuum is rather annoying, particularly if I have to field phone calls for clients. I would love a quieter printer...
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Rand47

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #185 on: July 10, 2020, 07:52:34 pm »

Thank you Rand. Glad to hear that it can be set up handle very thin papers. Now it just needs to be tested to see how well it does with them!

By the way, can anyone speak to the noise of the printer? Is it quieter than the P9000? I saw one in action briefly, and it seemed quieter than the P9000, but it could have been the acoustics of the space. My printer is located behind my computer, and I have to admit that the vacuum is rather annoying, particularly if I have to field phone calls for clients. I would love a quieter printer...

I’ve not had a 9000 but it is very quiet, IMO.  I could easily be on the phone right next to it w/ no issues.

Rand
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JRSmit

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #186 on: July 11, 2020, 04:52:47 am »

Noise is different, but not less to my ears. The only thing less is the lack of the very noisy INK pressure pump of the sc-p70xx/90xx. But this pump is only intermittendly active.
The sc-p9500 also hinders during telephone calls.

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StuartR

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #187 on: July 11, 2020, 05:08:58 am »

Thank you both!
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rxchaos

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #188 on: July 19, 2020, 05:11:22 pm »

There's been much discussion about the P9570/9500 printer and problems associated with it.

My P9570 was delivered and installed a few days ago.  Here're some notes with regard to some issues posted on this thread...

- The version of Epson Media Installer (EMI) that got installed with the Drivers and Utilities Combo Package Installer" (on Epson's USA website) is version 1.1.2. The bundle has a Jan 7th 2020 date. The text on the download link makes no mention of EMI.

- The version of the driver mentioned in the installer is 10.37; but what is really installed is 10.65.  I wish Epson updated the description to reflect the correct information

- EMI 1.1.2 appears to be working the way it should.  Custom media settings created using the EMI on the Mac can now be stored on the printer. And, the custom media that was created is visible in the 'Media Type' pulldown menu of the print dialog of Photoshop and other applications.

- The sheet feeder seems to feed sheets without skewing them.

I've only made a few test prints on matte paper and am yet to try gloss papers and the Black Enhance Overcoat feature.

Thank you Rand47 and JRSmit for your detailed posts.
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Rand47

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #189 on: July 19, 2020, 09:20:01 pm »

There's been much discussion about the P9570/9500 printer and problems associated with it.

My P9570 was delivered and installed a few days ago.  Here're some notes with regard to some issues posted on this thread...

- The version of Epson Media Installer (EMI) that got installed with the Drivers and Utilities Combo Package Installer" (on Epson's USA website) is version 1.1.2. The bundle has a Jan 7th 2020 date. The text on the download link makes no mention of EMI.

- The version of the driver mentioned in the installer is 10.37; but what is really installed is 10.65.  I wish Epson updated the description to reflect the correct information

- EMI 1.1.2 appears to be working the way it should.  Custom media settings created using the EMI on the Mac can now be stored on the printer. And, the custom media that was created is visible in the 'Media Type' pulldown menu of the print dialog of Photoshop and other applications.

- The sheet feeder seems to feed sheets without skewing them.

I've only made a few test prints on matte paper and am yet to try gloss papers and the Black Enhance Overcoat feature.

Thank you Rand47 and JRSmit for your detailed posts.

Hi!

You’re very welcome.  Thanks for the kind word.  Glad if any of our “trail blazing” has been of help.  It’s a great printer and once one’s head is wrapped around its operating “differences” - it is very satisfying to work with.

Rand
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arobinson7547

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #190 on: July 28, 2020, 12:26:41 pm »

to those that brought the 9570, what did you do about additional ink? did you pretty much have to fork out for a full set at purchase time (adding quite a bit the the initial cost)

The current price is $4,495 which seens pretty good. I was thinking about pulling the trigger but is the starter set enough to make some money with? (enough to get started)
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Rand47

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #191 on: July 28, 2020, 01:11:42 pm »

to those that brought the 9570, what did you do about additional ink? did you pretty much have to fork out for a full set at purchase time (adding quite a bit the the initial cost)

The current price is $4,495 which seens pretty good. I was thinking about pulling the trigger but is the starter set enough to make some money with? (enough to get started)

The starter ink carts all showed “low” warning when the printer was initialized and charged with ink (7570).   In a production environment I’d say “YES” you need more ink immediately.  For low volume printing, I can say that I made quite a few cut sheet and long-ish roll paper prints before needing to swap out the first cart.   Since then I’m watching the “relative rates” of consumption and sizing the replacement carts accordingly.

But the short answer to your question is YES - you need more ink pretty darn quickly if you’re doing any volume printing at all.  This behavior, however, is absolutely typical of Epson - so there’s no real “change” here from any other Epson printer I’ve purchased over the years.

Rand
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deanwork

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #192 on: July 28, 2020, 03:02:54 pm »

How much is a full set of 350 ml inks for the 9570 ? Add that for the real base price cost of your printer.

Yea they are all doing this now, even HP which used to give you a full set of regular carts has gotten really cheap.


The starter ink carts all showed “low” warning when the printer was initialized and charged with ink (7570).   In a production environment I’d say “YES” you need more ink immediately.  For low volume printing, I can say that I made quite a few cut sheet and long-ish roll paper prints before needing to swap out the first cart.   Since then I’m watching the “relative rates” of consumption and sizing the replacement carts accordingly.

But the short answer to your question is YES - you need more ink pretty darn quickly if you’re doing any volume printing at all.  This behavior, however, is absolutely typical of Epson - so there’s no real “change” here from any other Epson printer I’ve purchased over the years.

Rand
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arobinson7547

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #193 on: July 28, 2020, 03:04:56 pm »

kind of what I thought,

Thank Rand

Canon has really got me spoiled; 330mm x 12 for 8300/8400. More than enough to make a little money BEFORE you have to shall out. Even the old Epson 9600 wasn't too bad with the size of the starter set.

I just looked it up the 9600 was 110. It 'might' be possible to setup/profile a few medias and do some testing... and have your credit card ready. Although, I'd imagine it would be frustrating if they just emptied one after another and you would be paying a LOT of shipping (and waiting for new ink)

If I do get it, I just can't afford that addition 'middle' sized set, right away.
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arobinson7547

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #194 on: July 28, 2020, 03:18:27 pm »

yea deanwork, you're right.

regardless, it's probably less frustrating to just add it to the base price. So much for $4,495
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StuartR

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #195 on: July 28, 2020, 09:46:14 pm »

If you really want to save, you probably don't need a full set to replace. Certain colors are always much slower to use, such as orange and green. My printer tends to eat light black, photo black, cyan, magenta and light light black. If you have an ability to buy locally, it probably makes more sense to just buy a la carte unless you get a big discount for buying an entire inkset.
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arobinson7547

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #196 on: July 29, 2020, 03:15:09 am »

That reminds me of sometimes when the inks hit there last bar, some inks empty right away and others sit there long enough for you to say, "Drop to zero, already!"

I won't buy the full set, but I will try to budget for it. I can see now that the three sizes are really not a bad idea; say you need three carts and money is tight. It would be a lot easier to buy three smaller ones, to get you buy and then maybe by the next round you could spring for larger sizes.

I wonder it they will put 'one full set of 700mm carts for all P7570/P9570 owners' in the new Stimulus Bill <slow wink>
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JRSmit

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #197 on: July 29, 2020, 05:04:38 am »

Light Grey is the ink that Goes about twice as gast as the average INK consumption. Violet is the least.
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Rand47

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #198 on: July 29, 2020, 08:13:50 am »

Light Grey is the ink that Goes about twice as gast as the average INK consumption. Violet is the least.

+1

Rand
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arobinson7547

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Re: SureColor P9570
« Reply #199 on: July 29, 2020, 03:53:11 pm »

Speaking of Lk, I did have one Rant:

I remember the Canon IPF-5000; on photo paper I remember measuring L*1 for the Black Channel. I was kind of scary, 'cause, well, what happens if you read L* 0? Are you then at the Nexus of the Universe; in a worm hole?

So, the IDEA of POST printing or overcoating to get a good black makes me sick. Why not just formulate the ink K to achieve what you desire? In a Lab, where such a thing belongs. It IS doable. I could even settle for a Rich Black (K with some C usually); but done in one pass.

Am I right in my thinking that these coatings (Canon or Epson) take place as a separate pass or are they about ink order (meaning Lk is sprayed last after the primary color blend to achieve that extra bit of black detail. 
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