SureColor P9570

[allanworden@btinternet.com]

Thank you to those who have shared their experiences with this printer. I replaced a broken Canon ipf 5100 for my own use (a complete indulgence), lockdown saved me from having many of the issues listed in the preceding pages but I seem to have a number of issues I hope someone can help me solve, Epson are silent on the issue I have raised with them!
1  I am using up A4 sheets and am having difficulty getting them loaded straight; most of the time they will lean to the right.
2  I cannot get Epson Print Layout to work with this machine, I have asked Epson if it is supposed to work with this model & if so how, a week later no reply apart from an acknowledgement that I have asked the question. This is the Print Layout which is supposed to a plugin for Adobe PS and LrC.
3  I have made a number of custom media and registered them with  the machine and these have been retained (i.e. are sticky), unhappily Custom Settings in the Media Settings of the printer properties panel disappear when the computer has been switched off.
4  Print Preview shows upside down (with sheet feed) and cannot be rotated; not much of a problem, I tend to have this on because I cannot  rely on the printer to do what I want.

I cannot fault the prints but these issues are a real pain, any help greatly appreciated.
Allan

[Rand47]

See my inserted comments below.
Rand

Thank you to those who have shared their experiences with this printer. I replaced a broken Canon ipf 5100 for my own use (a complete indulgence), lockdown saved me from having many of the issues listed in the preceding pages but I seem to have a number of issues I hope someone can help me solve, Epson are silent on the issue I have raised with them!
1  I am using up A4 sheets and am having difficulty getting them loaded straight; most of the time they will lean to the right.

I assume you're using the top loading door / slot for the paper loading?  It should have a nice "stop" when you open the door, and just set the paper in the feed slot.  Are you saying that when you do this, the paper sits at a distinct angle away from vertical?  If so, it would sound like something is badly aligned in the printer's sheet feed mechanism.  This is one of the features of this printer that I appreciate most - the simple and straightforward sheet feed mechanism.  Yours may just be "broken."

2  I cannot get Epson Print Layout to work with this machine, I have asked Epson if it is supposed to work with this model & if so how, a week later no reply apart from an acknowledgement that I have asked the question. This is the Print Layout which is supposed to a plugin for Adobe PS and LrC. 

I've used Epson Print layout successfully from PS (Windows OS).  But honestly I don't know why you'd prefer that to Lightroom's excellent Print Module which incorporates output sharpening, while Epson's Print Layout utility does not.

3  I have made a number of custom media and registered them with  the machine and these have been retained (i.e. are sticky), unhappily Custom Settings in the Media Settings of the printer properties panel disappear when the computer has been switched off.   

No comment on this one.  Once I have the printer / drivers settings as I like them for any given paper / size / feed / resolution, etc., I create a print template for it in Lightroom. 

4  Print Preview shows upside down (with sheet feed) and cannot be rotated; not much of a problem, I tend to have this on because I cannot  rely on the printer to do what I want.

On the print preview, it will always show "leading edge down" the way it feeds though the printer.  I think what you're seeing may be completely normal.  Again, I'm a Windows person so YMMV.

I cannot fault the prints but these issues are a real pain, any help greatly appreciated.
Allan

[allanworden@btinternet.com]

Rand, Thanks for your swift reply.

1 I assume you're using the top loading door / slot for the paper loading?  It should have a nice "stop" when you open the door, and just set the paper in the feed slot.  Are you saying that when you do this, the paper sits at a distinct angle away from vertical?  If so, it would sound like something is badly aligned in the printer's sheet feed mechanism.  This is one of the features of this printer that I appreciate most - the simple and straightforward sheet feed mechanism.  Yours may just be "broken."

That is correct. About 3 times out of 10 the paper loads either leaning to the right, or, moves left about 2mm and skews. It appears to be better with a stiffer, heavier paper. It seems as though the roller might be eccentric. I will have to have a meaningful dialogue with Epson.

2 I've used Epson Print layout successfully from PS (Windows OS).  But honestly I don't know why you'd prefer that to Lightroom's excellent Print Module which incorporates output sharpening, while Epson's Print Layout utility does not.

I use LrC Print Module, and Mirage, since the Epson Print Layout does not work I have no idea if it is advantageous or not. I am using the latest Win 10 Printer Driver Ver. 6.73. At this price I expect software to work even if I decide not to use it. I am grateful you confirm it is supposed to work with this printer!

3 No comment on this one.  Once I have the printer / drivers settings as I like them for any given paper / size / feed / resolution, etc., I create a print template for it in Lightroom.

I have followed your advice and created templates for size, paper, quality for 2 different media and thus 2 different profiles. It seems to work, even after re-starting the computer. Now to do the rest of the templates, pity they can't be duplicated then edited. I thought I knew LrC pretty well; now I no more, thanks.


4  On the print preview, it will always show "leading edge down" the way it feeds though the printer.  I think what you're seeing may be completely normal.  Again, I'm a Windows person so YMMV.

My mistake! The view menu in Print Preview allows for flipping.


With thanks & kind regards
Allan

[Rand47]

Rand, Thanks for your swift reply.



I have followed your advice and created templates for size, paper, quality for 2 different media and thus 2 different profiles. It seems to work, even after re-starting the computer. Now to do the rest of the templates, pity they can't be duplicated then edited. I thought I knew LrC pretty well; now I no more, thanks.

With thanks & kind regards
Allan

You can build from one template to another.   Select one that has the most attributes similar to the one you want to create.  Use page set up to change whatever is different. Then just hit the + to create/save the new one. I do it all the time. I have multiples for given paper type, ICC profile, print quality etc.  Then I'll build for different paper sizes, landscape & portrait orientation, etc.  I leave print resolution unchecked in all templates since it is image dependent. 

Rand.

[allanworden@btinternet.com]

You can build from one template to another.   Select one that has the most attributes similar to the one you want to create.  Use page set up to change whatever is different. Then just hit the + to create/save the new one. I do it all the time. I have multiples for given paper type, ICC profile, print quality etc.  Then I'll build for different paper sizes, landscape & portrait orientation, etc.  I leave print resolution unchecked in all templates since it is image dependent.

Thanks again Rand works for me too!

Allan

[JRSmit]

You can build from one template to another.   Select one that has the most attributes similar to the one you want to create.  Use page set up to change whatever is different. Then just hit the + to create/save the new one. I do it all the time. I have multiples for given paper type, ICC profile, print quality etc.  Then I'll build for different paper sizes, landscape & portrait orientation, etc.  I leave print resolution unchecked in all templates since it is image dependent. 

Rand.

Hi Rand, why do you leave print resolution unchecked?
I prefer to set it, so that LR does the uprezzing, as the driver uprezzing is quite poor. Also the printer expects files to be of the ppi value you choose in the driver, so for a scp5000 360 or 720 ppi.

[Jeremy Roussak]

Hi Rand, why do you leave print resolution unchecked?
I prefer to set it, so that LR does the uprezzing, as the driver uprezzing is quite poor. Also the printer expects files to be of the ppi value you choose in the driver, so for a scp5000 360 or 720 ppi.

As I recall, that is Jeff Schewe's recommendation as well: let LR upres to 360 or 720 ppi (Epson), depending where you're starting from.

Jeremy

[JRSmit]

And forcthe 75xx/95xx 300/600ppi. See also acprevipus post on print engine resolution.

[Rand47]

Hi Rand, why do you leave print resolution unchecked?
I prefer to set it, so that LR does the uprezzing, as the driver uprezzing is quite poor. Also the printer expects files to be of the ppi value you choose in the driver, so for a scp5000 360 or 720 ppi.

Hi, Jan . . .

I leave the resolution box unchecked when creating a print template in Lightroom because that setting is image dependent.  I’ll set 300/600 for the 7570 based on the native resolution of the image at any given paper / image-on-that-paper size.  My intent is to have the LR print template “make me make a choice” - rather than have one choice baked into the template.

Rand

[Rand47]

As I recall, that is Jeff Schewe's recommendation as well: let LR upres to 360 or 720 ppi (Epson), depending where you're starting from.

Jeremy

Jeremy,

Exactly correct and that’s my work-flow also for P5000 and P600.  For the 75xx/95xx the correct values are 300/600 based on the printer’s resolution.  But most important re Jan’s question above is that I was making reference to when I make Print Templates in Lightroom.  Not that “I don’t check that box while printing.”  I very much love how good LR is at doing the up/down sampling on the fly.  Jeff Schewe has been my unknowing mentor for a very long time.  His books are a tour de force for all things digital.  I even got to meet  him once in Death Valley at workshop there. 

Rand

[JRSmit]

Hi, Jan . . .

I leave the resolution box unchecked when creating a print template in Lightroom because that setting is image dependent.  I’ll set 300/600 for the 7570 based on the native resolution of the image at any given paper / image-on-that-paper size.  My intent is to have the LR print template “make me make a choice” - rather than have one choice baked into the template.

Rand

Is what i assumed 😎👌
The only thing I am not sure about with the scp95xx is if it has the same color behaviour with different print quality level settings. In February it was not the case. Have not tested it since.

[Rand47]

Is what i assumed 😎👌
The only thing I am not sure about with the scp95xx is if it has the same color behaviour with different print quality level settings. In February it was not the case. Have not tested it since.

Yes, several driver/firmware changes since release!
Did you ever have the opportunity to take a look at the evaluation print I sent you?

Rand

[JRSmit]

Hi Rand, it is on my evaluation table, have to divide my time between customers, the dispute with Epson, and research like evaluating your print. Initial impression is fine.

[Jeremy Roussak]

Exactly correct and that’s my work-flow also for P5000 and P600.  For the 75xx/95xx the correct values are 300/600 based on the printers resolution.  But most important re Jan’s question above is that I was making reference to when I make Print Templates in Lightroom.  Not that “I don’t check that box while printing.”  I very much love how good LR is at doing the up/down sampling on the fly.  Jeff Schewe has been my unknowing mentor for a very long time.  His books are a tour de force for all things digital.  I even got to meet  him once in Death Valley at workshop there. 

I understand now. That's seems eminently sensible.

Jeremy

[StuartR]

I am curious...can anyone speak to whether the lower resolution is visible in any meaningful way? I am sure there is not a difference on large prints, but what about small prints at high resolution? Sometimes when I am working for museum shows, I am asked to mimic darkroom prints for contact prints or small prints from large negatives, the 2880/720dpi workflow helps maximize the sharpness and tonality and matches a darkroom print a bit better than 1440/360. This is mostly visible in very fine detail such as fence posts or power lines etc. I think the lower resolution is probably a good trade off for a faster more reliable print head (assuming it is more reliable), but I was curious if anyone who has a lot of experience with the P9000 at high resolution could let me know if there is a meaningful difference.

[Rand47]

I am curious...can anyone speak to whether the lower resolution is visible in any meaningful way? I am sure there is not a difference on large prints, but what about small prints at high resolution? Sometimes when I am working for museum shows, I am asked to mimic darkroom prints for contact prints or small prints from large negatives, the 2880/720dpi workflow helps maximize the sharpness and tonality and matches a darkroom print a bit better than 1440/360. This is mostly visible in very fine detail such as fence posts or power lines etc. I think the lower resolution is probably a good trade off for a faster more reliable print head (assuming it is more reliable), but I was curious if anyone who has a lot of experience with the P9000 at high resolution could let me know if there is a meaningful difference.

Hi StuartR,

I’m not sure what it is you mean by “lower resolution?”  Could you clarify?  The 75xx/95xx printers are 2400x1200 printers.  If you’re asking if this difference (i.e., the 7000/9000 printers being 2880x1440) is visible in prints - my answer would be no.  Perhaps with a loupe one might see a difference - but in side by side prints at say 17x22” I can say that I cannot see any visible difference resolution-wise. 

Rand

[soboyle]

Thanks for the blow by blow details of doing Epson's beta testing for them. It sounds like most of the bugs are now worked out of the P7570.

I'm new to large format printers, current printer is the 3880, I'm researching 24" printers for printing on lighter weight papers, in the 75 to 150 gsm weight, for use in large artists books/folios. Papers such as Ilford Washi Torinoko fine art (110 gsm) or Hiromi Asuka (75 gsm). Any thoughts or experience on how the P7570 or P7000 will handle these papers, both roll and cut sheets? Some of the paper feed/skew comments on the 7570 make me nervous.

[JRSmit]

I am curious...can anyone speak to whether the lower resolution is visible in any meaningful way? I am sure there is not a difference on large prints, but what about small prints at high resolution? Sometimes when I am working for museum shows, I am asked to mimic darkroom prints for contact prints or small prints from large negatives, the 2880/720dpi workflow helps maximize the sharpness and tonality and matches a darkroom print a bit better than 1440/360. This is mostly visible in very fine detail such as fence posts or power lines etc. I think the lower resolution is probably a good trade off for a faster more reliable print head (assuming it is more reliable), but I was curious if anyone who has a lot of experience with the P9000 at high resolution could let me know if there is a meaningful difference.

It depends on the image resolution, the higher the pixels per inch of the print, the more it will become visible, certainly in A-B comparison. Not so much on the visibility of fine Details, at normal viewing distance they are not explicitly visible. It is more the total impression, the tonal transitions, the dimensionality.

[StuartR]

Thank you Jan,
That is basically what I am asking...I shoot a lot of 8x10 and 4x5 as well as high resolution digital, and some of the prints I make are small, so I am often able to print at the full 720 dpi, and as I described, when doing museum work of a similar nature, I have found that the higher resolution does help the print match the darkroom prints better. In any case, it sounds like I will need to run my own test to see how much of a difference it makes when looking closely at the prints. I am aware that any difference would most likely not be visible from more than a half meter or meter away.

[JRSmit]

Stuart, that is like i experience it. I did a test with a portrait of a goede (head). Printed about 9by12inches on Fine Art Matte (Hahnemuhle Hemp) , it was quite easily visible. Image was a 50 Megapixel one.
Mind you when feed- and head alignment are done well, the resolution is quite close to that of glossy papers.