Brexit Encore

[Rob C]

I agree. It just got worse after 2008 recession when so many saw their life savings lost and jobs disappear.

What's interesting is that decades ago I wondered why Americans were building certain products at 5x or more times the cost in labor than for the same products overseas.  Why are we getting paid so much for the same labor?    Of course, that didn't last.  What happened is that the American jobs eventually disappeared for those products because of the higher labor cost.  As more and more foreigners develop the ability to build products at less labor cost, we'll lose more and more jobs. So our wealth will decrease as theirs increases.  I think some speculate that the US dollar being the international currency it is allows us to control this situation somewhat.  I don;t really know.  But the next 2008 is going to be a killer.  Wealth will be wiped out as the government prints money to keep the economy going.  It's going to be a bloodbath.

That is a perfect description of the British world as I saw it at the time of the Thatcher years and slightly before.

In our case, it was fuelled by Labour governments and union power working in combination/conflict with manufacturing that left much to be desired. In Scotland, we had the Rootes car plant at Linwood, a governmental adventure in promoting English-based business to expand outwith the south of England and calm the savage breasts up in Lapland Scotland. In the event, the engines had to be sent up from Coventry, the bodies were to be seen sitting out in fields (not a dry country, this) and it was also supposed to provide a market for the steel production plant next door. The costs added to the manufacturing of the small car made there - the Hillman Imp - with all that coming and going of parts, when the car market was always going to be huge in England and not up in Scotland, never made financial sense. Body shells for the Volvo P1800 (the Saint car) were to be seen on the backs of trucks - I wonder how they were to fare in the coming years? The Imp rusted as badly as the Fiats and Lancias. I know Rootes has gone - completely - as, to the best of my understanding, has the steel plant.

Like with Trump and Mexico and US cars made there, by playing the patriot card you cure one thing and create a worse one. So manufacturing reverts to the US and Ford, for example, says it will phase out saloons by the end of the year, leaving just the Mustang and trucks.

Ford has also announced a new round of job cuts, as has Nissan:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/may/20/ford-motor-company-cut-7000-jobs-500-uk

Currently, billions are about to be wasted in England by the construction  of rail and road links making the distance between the south and the north, the east and the west feel a little less. The sad reality is that however quickly they manage to make distance and time fly, the costs of doing that remain, both in terms of creating the infrastructure and then using it. Pockets of industry originally developed organically, not because governments said it had to be so.

Rob

[Ray]

That is a perfect description of the British world as I saw it at the time of the Thatcher years and slightly before.

In our case, it was fuelled by Labour governments and union power working in combination/conflict with manufacturing that left much to be desired. In Scotland, we had the Rootes car plant at Linwood, a governmental adventure in promoting English-based business to expand outwith the south of England and calm the savage breasts up in Lapland Scotland. In the event, the engines had to be sent up from Coventry, the bodies were to be seen sitting out in fields (not a dry country, this) and it was also supposed to provide a market for the steel production plant next door. The costs added to the manufacturing of the small car made there - the Hillman Imp - with all that coming and going of parts, when the car market was always going to be huge in England and not up in Scotland, never made financial sense. Body shells for the Volvo P1800 (the Saint car) were to be seen on the backs of trucks - I wonder how they were to fare in the coming years? The Imp rusted as badly as the Fiats and Lancias. I know Rootes has gone - completely - as, to the best of my understanding, has the steel plant.

Like with Trump and Mexico and US cars made there, by playing the patriot card you cure one thing and create a worse one. So manufacturing reverts to the US and Ford, for example, says it will phase out saloons by the end of the year, leaving just the Mustang and trucks.

Ford has also announced a new round of job cuts, as has Nissan:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/may/20/ford-motor-company-cut-7000-jobs-500-uk

Currently, billions are about to be wasted in England by the construction  of rail and road links making the distance between the south and the north, the east and the west feel a little less. The sad reality is that however quickly they manage to make distance and time fly, the costs of doing that remain, both in terms of creating the infrastructure and then using it. Pockets of industry originally developed organically, not because governments said it had to be so.

Rob

Rob,
The (conventional) car industry is in trouble world-wide. The move is towards electrification.

This is Britain's opportunity to subsidise and encourage the new industries. Ford is lagging behind with electrification.

Whilst I'm very skeptical about the bad effects of CO2 emissions on climate, I don't like pollution, and I don't like noisy beasts continually passing by whenever I'm near a road.

From the Guardian article you linked:

"According to Prof Karel Williams of the Manchester Business School: “The car as we know it may be on the edge of becoming history, the way that [photographic company] Kodak became history.”

"The real big thing is that the car, as Ford and General Motors invented it, is going to be reinvented with electrification and autonomy.”

“China will become the centre for global electric vehicle production, said Bailey. Unless the industry transforms, large chunks of it could get wiped out."

[Alan Klein]

That is a perfect description of the British world as I saw it at the time of the Thatcher years and slightly before.

In our case, it was fuelled by Labour governments and union power working in combination/conflict with manufacturing that left much to be desired. In Scotland, we had the Rootes car plant at Linwood, a governmental adventure in promoting English-based business to expand outwith the south of England and calm the savage breasts up in Lapland Scotland. In the event, the engines had to be sent up from Coventry, the bodies were to be seen sitting out in fields (not a dry country, this) and it was also supposed to provide a market for the steel production plant next door. The costs added to the manufacturing of the small car made there - the Hillman Imp - with all that coming and going of parts, when the car market was always going to be huge in England and not up in Scotland, never made financial sense. Body shells for the Volvo P1800 (the Saint car) were to be seen on the backs of trucks - I wonder how they were to fare in the coming years? The Imp rusted as badly as the Fiats and Lancias. I know Rootes has gone - completely - as, to the best of my understanding, has the steel plant.

Like with Trump and Mexico and US cars made there, by playing the patriot card you cure one thing and create a worse one. So manufacturing reverts to the US and Ford, for example, says it will phase out saloons by the end of the year, leaving just the Mustang and trucks.

Ford has also announced a new round of job cuts, as has Nissan:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/may/20/ford-motor-company-cut-7000-jobs-500-uk

Currently, billions are about to be wasted in England by the construction  of rail and road links making the distance between the south and the north, the east and the west feel a little less. The sad reality is that however quickly they manage to make distance and time fly, the costs of doing that remain, both in terms of creating the infrastructure and then using it. Pockets of industry originally developed organically, not because governments said it had to be so.

Rob

Government moving around the wealth of others to favor certain industries is usually a bad idea.  The organic brilliance of the 'invisible hand" of the free market is lost.  We have it here with rebates on Tesla cars and solar power for homes.  People only see all the jobs the government created or saved with that money.  What they don't see is the jobs that were never created because that money went elsewhere rather than where the free market would have put it if left alone.  Then, when the supported businesses fail, all that money turn out wasted rather than have been the seed money for new and dynamic industries. 

And then there's plain old politics.  In 2009, Obama and the US government bailed out the auto workers union in Detroit as a payback for their support of the president when he got elected the year before.

The government always screws things up.  I wonder how China is going to avoid the same problem? They're heavily involved in making business decisions that should be left in private hands.   Communists are not immuned to the laws of economics. 

[degrub]

Government moving around the wealth of others to favor certain industries is usually a bad idea.  The organic brilliance of the 'invisible hand" of the free market is lost.  We have it here with rebates on Tesla cars and solar power for homes.  People only see all the jobs the government created or saved with that money.  What they don't see is the jobs that were never created because that money went elsewhere rather than where the free market would have put it if left alone.  Then, when the supported businesses fail, all that money turn out wasted rather than have been the seed money for new and dynamic industries. 

And then there's plain old politics.  In 2009, Obama and the US government bailed out the auto workers union in Detroit as a payback for their support of the president when he got elected the year before.

The government always screws things up.  I wonder how China is going to avoid the same problem? They're heavily involved in making business decisions that should be left in private hands.   Communists are not immuned to the laws of economics.

Ehm, the Chinese are generally pretty good at business. They are getting closer to taking over or controlling critical sections of the supply chain the West depends on. 

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Ehm, the Chinese are generally pretty good at business...

Only because they abandoned their communist central planning in favor of brute capitalism.

[degrub]

And over long historic time.

[Alan Klein]

It could be their labor and potential markets are so huge, it covers up any government mistakes that are going on. There are another billion Chinese who want to enter middle class like the 400 million that already made it. Also the Chinese are huge savers which is great for capital investment. Again saving covers up a lot of mistakes made privately and governmentally.

[Rob C]

It could be their labor and potential markets are so huge, it covers up any government mistakes that are going on. There are another billion Chinese who want to enter middle class like the 400 million that already made it. Also the Chinese are huge savers which is great for capital investment. Again saving covers up a lot of mistakes made privately and governmentally.

Beware thinking too hard about that other "billion" you say wants to join the 400 million.

As with our own variations on a theme, capitalism sees more failures than successes with new starts. It's just another step on the belief path that tells everybody that all are equal, all gifted, and that only opportunity denied some by wicked forces is what holds them back. Why would anyone imagine the Chinese are any different - they are just people like the rest of us.

Do you think that vast amounts of money best spent otherwise do not also go up in smoke when a private business goes tits up? And with them, hopes, dreams and life savings, sometimes? Of all people, you know that! Nothing is safe; everything that depends on anything beyond ourselves is wide open to disaster at some stage or another. Government holds no monopoly on mistakes.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Rob, glad to see you are back to your 20s

[Alan Klein]

Beware thinking too hard about that other "billion" you say wants to join the 400 million.

As with our own variations on a theme, capitalism sees more failures than successes with new starts. It's just another step on the belief path that tells everybody that all are equal, all gifted, and that only opportunity denied some by wicked forces is what holds them back. Why would anyone imagine the Chinese are any different - they are just people like the rest of us.

Do you think that vast amounts of money best spent otherwise do not also go up in smoke when a private business goes tits up? And with them, hopes, dreams and life savings, sometimes? Of all people, you know that! Nothing is safe; everything that depends on anything beyond ourselves is wide open to disaster at some stage or another. Government holds no monopoly on mistakes.

Yes in the end we're all in God's hands.

[Alan Klein]

My wife an I are planning a vacation.  We've never been to Great Britain. I'd like to photograph Scotland and visit Wales, England, Ireland, etc. I see the pound dropped to its lowest in a while.  So it should be cheaper to travel there.  What do you think?  Good time to visit? (when it's cooler also).  What about driving?  I'd be driving on the opposite side something I haven't done in 50 years when I was in Japan.  Car travel there or trains or...?
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49156403

[Chris Kern]

My wife an I are planning a vacation.  We've never been to Great Britain. . . .  What do you think?

I'm sure you'll have a great time.  A few tips for a first-time U.S. visitor:

• Don't forget to look to the right before crossing the road.
• Spread plenty of Marmite on your morning toast (which will be served cold from a quaint contraption known as a "toast rack").
• Wear your MAGA baseball cap wherever you go.  Brits love Donald Trump.

[Alan Klein]

I'm sure you'll have a great time.  A few tips for a first-time U.S. visitor:

• Don't forget to look to the right before crossing the road.
• Spread plenty of Marmite on your morning toast (which will be served cold from a quaint contraption known as a "toast rack").
• Wear your MAGA baseball cap wherever you go.  Brits love Donald Trump.

OK.  Great.  I'll take some extra caps to pass out.  Thanks for the tip. 

[Rob C]

OK.  Great.  I'll take some extra caps to pass out.  Thanks for the tip. 

And if you eat meat: don't chop it all up at one go: the staff will wonder where you hid the kid. Cut from the piece as you require it.

We were doing that in Florida at dinner one night, and a party of women stopped to gawk. This is not tongue-in-cheek (you seldom get that in the UK - tongue) and I can't remember if we did or did not get a round of applause.

Regarding your caps for the natives: best not offer them in Scotland. If in Glasgow, wear nothing blue or green. Don't let your wife wear a fur.

Drinks (spirits) come in tiny measures wrapped in huge prices.

Don't think something's amiss if you suddenly realise you can't understand people. Some accents are so impossible that only families can make out what's going down. "Hey, Jimmy" is not a term of endearment.

If you drive, don't tailgate; using a horn is a challenge. If at traffic lights in main city centres, make sure you don't get stuck in the patch of lines between them: you could get fined; make sure you can exit that no-man's land before you enter it.

Light sequences: Red, Red-Amber, Green. Then in the opposite way, it's Green, Amber, Red. (That game with the amber lets you know if the next change is going to be Stop or Go.)

I can't recall any equivalent to the American turn right at red lights; it would of course be turn left, in the UK, but I really don't remember ever coming across that system.

To get the best of Scotland you need a car, and to leave the two big cities behind. Perthshire is a rather nice area. We honeymooned at Loch Tay. (We were very young and very impecunious!)

Other than that, you should have a nice time as long as you don't try to feed the monster.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FYJydaClRA

The above is a link to Albert Watson's Part 1, shooting on the island of Skye. There's a Part 2 which is now unobtainable on my list of favs. Worth the hunt for it.

A nice break for you from politics - if you go!

Rob

[KLaban]

Be careful to refer to the people of Scotland as Scotch rather than Scots and be sure to ask for a Glasgow Kiss, they'll love you all the more for it.

[Rob C]

Be careful to refer to the people of Scotland as Scotch rather than Scots and be sure to ask for a Glasgow Kiss, they'll love you all the more for it.

That's cruel. What harm did the guy ever do you?

:-)

[Alan Klein]

And if you eat meat: don't chop it all up at one go: the staff will wonder where you hid the kid. Cut from the piece as you require it.

We were doing that in Florida at dinner one night, and a party of women stopped to gawk. This is not tongue-in-cheek (you seldom get that in the UK - tongue) and I can't remember if we did or did not get a round of applause.

Regarding your caps for the natives: best not offer them in Scotland. If in Glasgow, wear nothing blue or green. Don't let your wife wear a fur.

Drinks (spirits) come in tiny measures wrapped in huge prices.

Don't think something's amiss if you suddenly realise you can't understand people. Some accents are so impossible that only families can make out what's going down. "Hey, Jimmy" is not a term of endearment.

If you drive, don't tailgate; using a horn is a challenge. If at traffic lights in main city centres, make sure you don't get stuck in the patch of lines between them: you could get fined; make sure you can exit that no-man's land before you enter it.

Light sequences: Red, Red-Amber, Green. Then in the opposite way, it's Green, Amber, Red. (That game with the amber lets you know if the next change is going to be Stop or Go.)

I can't recall any equivalent to the American turn right at red lights; it would of course be turn left, in the UK, but I really don't remember ever coming across that system.

To get the best of Scotland you need a car, and to leave the two big cities behind. Perthshire is a rather nice area. We honeymooned at Loch Tay. (We were very young and very impecunious!)

Other than that, you should have a nice time as long as you don't try to feed the monster.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FYJydaClRA

The above is a link to Albert Watson's Part 1, shooting on the island of Skye. There's a Part 2 which is now unobtainable on my list of favs. Worth the hunt for it.

A nice break for you from politics - if you go!

Rob

Thanks for the tips.  I think we'll take a bus. 

[Alan Klein]

Be careful to refer to the people of Scotland as Scotch rather than Scots and be sure to ask for a Glasgow Kiss, they'll love you all the more for it.

It's nice to know the Scots are so friendly.

[Rob C]

It's nice to know the Scots are so friendly.

They've had a hard time. Much that was worth holding on to drifted south. London is a big Hoover.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

My wife an I are planning a vacation.  We've never been to Great Britain. I'd like to photograph Scotland and visit Wales, England, Ireland, etc...

Stick to a deep province, if you want to meet the Brits. Otherwise, you might find a cheaper vacation if you want to visit the Middle East.