Brexit Encore

[Robert Roaldi]

OK.

1.  Will Britain be ready to equalize all tariffs between our countries or better still drop tariffs completely? 

2.   What deals would you like to see the US make after Brexit?

Interesting thing that you think that dropping tariffs is a good idea. Why were you then in favour of Trump pulling out of those free-trade agreements and raising tariffs to protect US workers?

[Jeremy Roussak]

Before you get yet another thread blocked, keep Brexit stuff Brexit stuff, please.

Thanks, Rob. You beat me to it.

Jeremy

[kers]

Todays news...  Wales wakes up
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-politics-49200636
".. recently-elected Lib Dem leader Jo Swinson said: "Boris Johnson's shrinking majority makes it clear that he has no mandate to crash us out of the EU."

[Alan Klein]

Interesting thing that you think that dropping tariffs is a good idea. Why were you then in favour of Trump pulling out of those free-trade agreements and raising tariffs to protect US workers?

Your answer doesn;t have anything to do with Brexit or trade between the US and Great Britain.  When Brexit happens, Britain will be starting fresh with the US.  It will no longer be in the EU and have to comply with EU rules.  So everything is open for negotiation.  Certainly, you;re going to have to negotiate trade rules with the EU.   However, you also have to negotiate separate trade with the US as you will with other countries outside the EU.  So,

1.  Will Britain be willing to equalize all tariffs with the US or better still drop tariffs completely? 

2.   What other deals would you like to see the US and Britain make after Brexit?  These can be economic, trade or other.  After all, once out of the EU, all kinds of things have to be renegotiated. GB won;t be constrained by EU rules in many areas. It will be a new world for GB.  Have you thought about these things? 

[Rob C]

Your answer doesn;t have anything to do with Brexit or trade between the US and Great Britain.  When Brexit happens, Britain will be starting fresh with the US.  It will no longer be in the EU and have to comply with EU rules.  So everything is open for negotiation.  Certainly, you;re going to have to negotiate trade rules with the EU.   However, you also have to negotiate separate trade with the US as you will with other countries outside the EU.  So,

1.  Will Britain be willing to equalize all tariffs with the US or better still drop tariffs completely? 

2.   What other deals would you like to see the US and Britain make after Brexit?  These can be economic, trade or other.  After all, once out of the EU, all kinds of things have to be renegotiated. GB won;t be constrained by EU rules in many areas. It will be a new world for GB.  Have you thought about these things?

You are forgetting something vital: negotiations and positions within them depend on the relative power of the negotiating bodies. I imagine that as an ex-business man you have just forgotten that fact for the moment.

Vis-à-vis Mr Trump's fiefdom v. The Disunited Kingdom, the trump cards are all at one chair, and that's not the little one on the east of the Atlantic.

Go figure the deals you, as a Brit, are gonna get! But, whatever turd it be, you can bet that the Conservative extreme right will advertise it as an opportunity, validating the pains and collateral damages of Brexit.

As the man said, there's a special place in hell for those who initiated Brexit without having a single plan as to what to do if it comes. This started three years ago, and guess what: they still haven't the foggiest idea what to do other than try to blame the rest of the club, as if they were the ones to blame, when it's the pesky Brits doing the leaving nobody wants them to do. The Boris stance: do as we say or it's your fault if Britain sinks like a friggin' stone. No-deal Brexit by default, then, blame shoved next door by making impossible demands of the neighbours, knowing such demands cannot be met. Shakespear was Englsh, so I guess tragedies of that nature are to be expected some years down the line. Anyway, the poor Greeks are always there to be blamed for tragedies if not Shakespeare.

Regarding it being a new world for Britain: it was that very world we knowingly quit for the better one within the strength of a larger Europe! Today, we will find ourselves even more tiny than we were before, old empire ties thoughtlessly spurned, as now we imagine to rekindle them with those waiting for us with warm hugs and wet kisses.

[Robert Roaldi]

Your answer doesn;t have anything to do with Brexit or trade between the US and Great Britain.  When Brexit happens, Britain will be starting fresh with the US.  It will no longer be in the EU and have to comply with EU rules.  So everything is open for negotiation.  Certainly, you;re going to have to negotiate trade rules with the EU.   However, you also have to negotiate separate trade with the US as you will with other countries outside the EU.  So,

1.  Will Britain be willing to equalize all tariffs with the US or better still drop tariffs completely? 

2.   What other deals would you like to see the US and Britain make after Brexit?  These can be economic, trade or other.  After all, once out of the EU, all kinds of things have to be renegotiated. GB won;t be constrained by EU rules in many areas. It will be a new world for GB.  Have you thought about these things?

Ok, but are tariffs good or bad then?

[faberryman]

Not sure why you think the UK will be able to negotiate lower tariffs with the rest of the world than the EU. They could just as easily be higher. And any savings from lower tariffs are likely to be more than offset by a lower pound sterling, so I'm not sure the UK has a lot to look forward to.

[Rob C]

Not sure why you think the UK will be able to negotiate lower tariffs with the rest of the world than the EU. They could just as easily be higher. And any savings from lower tariffs are likely to be more than offset by a lower pound sterling, so I'm not sure the UK has a lot to look forward to.

It's got a lot to look forward to, all of it bad!

Rob

[Alan Klein]

I agree America is in a better negotiating position.  But if tariffs are bad for America as some of you claim, then they are also bad for any other country including GB. So, wouldn't it be fresh if both America and GB start off without them?  Or some minor tariffs on both sides that politicians absolutely need so they can possibly get re-elected, but nothing beyond that.  Of course that would be helpful to us when we negotiate with the EU in dropping their tariffs as well. 

I'm glad we settled that. 

Now regarding other issues, what other areas between us would be a good deal to make politically, militarily, etc. that has to be worked out or should be worked out considering the rules are gone after Brexit?

[Alan Klein]

Not sure why you think the UK will be able to negotiate lower tariffs with the rest of the world than the EU. They could just as easily be higher. And any savings from lower tariffs are likely to be more than offset by a lower pound sterling, so I'm not sure the UK has a lot to look forward to.

I don;t understand your point.  GB can set their tariffs as low as they want or have none at all.  That's up to them. 

Also lower currency evaluations raises exports which should be good for GB workers.

[Rob C]

I agree America is in a better negotiating position.  But if tariffs are bad for America as some of you claim, then they are also bad for any other country including GB. So, wouldn't it be fresh if both America and GB start off without them?  Or some minor tariffs on both sides that politicians absolutely need so they get possibly get re-elected, but nothing beyond that.  Of course that would be helpful to us when we negotiate with the EU in dropping their tariffs as well. 

I'm glad we settled that. 

Now regarding other issues, what other areas between us would be a good deal to make politically, militarily, etc. that has to be worked out or should be worked out considering the rules are gone after Brexit?

You can't just claim tarrifs to be good or bad; it all depends on the position in which you find yourself, which goods and/or services you have to offer, and how the other side is fitted up in the same areas. Then, it's back to muscle, which is where we came in. The rest is wishful thinking. There is not going to be a level playing field outwith larger groupings such as the EU; as far as I know, even your own states have taxation differences in the form of local sales taxes etc. and so imagine how Britain would fit in, hundreds of miles away across an expensive ocean and on its commercial knees as it kisses the US boot for crumbs.

Hell, Mexico would be in a better position, both geographically as goepolitically: you, the US, can get cheap labour and/or production facilities where you desire them, and both of you hold cards in the migrants game, which the UK, not being within outboard engine range, cannot: the other side of the migrants issue, and the power games sides can play, the migrants, as ever, pawns in the game.

[faberryman]

Try answering this for yourself (no need to share with us), name 10 (or 5) products manufactured in the UK that the rest of the world cannot do without?

The 1% in the US like Jaguars and Range Rovers, which is why vehicles are the number one import from the UK to the US. I like Stilton cheese, but I don't think that is going to move any needles. I'm struggling finding other things.

[Alan Klein]

You can't just claim tarrifs to be good or bad; it all depends on the position in which you find yourself, which goods and/or services you have to offer, and how the other side is fitted up in the same areas. Then, it's back to muscle, which is where we came in. The rest is wishful thinking. There is not going to be a level playing field outwith larger groupings such as the EU; as far as I know, even your own states have taxation differences in the form of local sales taxes etc. and so imagine how Britain would fit in, hundreds of miles away across an expensive ocean and on its commercial knees as it kisses the US boot for crumbs.

Hell, Mexico would be in a better position, both geographically as goepolitically: you, the US, can get cheap labour and/or production facilities where you desire them, and both of you hold cards in the migrants game, which the UK, not being within outboard engine range, cannot: the other side of the migrants issue, and the power games sides can play, the migrants, as ever, pawns in the game.

Sales taxes are not the same as tariffs.  Even in the US.  With sales taxes, all products whether imported from other states or manufactured in the sales tax state are assessed at the same sales tax rate.  Local made products within that state have no inherent price advantage. 

Tariffs are different.  They are applied to imports only.  The same products manufactured in the country are not assessed.  This makes domestic products cheaper causing unfair competition with foreign manufacturers.

It's interesting that this came up a few years back.  NYS imposed a tax on wine imported from other states like California.  The special sales tax was not applied to domestic NYS wine so NYS wine could sell better.  California sued in the US Supreme Court and one.  SCOTUS determined NYS was in violation of interstate commerce rules in our Constitution that did not allow state "tariffs".  So NYS had to drop the extra tax on "foreign" wine.   

[Robert Roaldi]

Try answering this for yourself (no need to share with us), name 10 (or 5) products manufactured in the UK that the rest of the world cannot do without?

The current top 10 export products are also exported to Europe, without import duties, but that will change.

Cheers,
Bart

Terrific BBC detective series and drama in general. Well, comedy too for that matter. Good history television too.

[faberryman]

Tariffs are different.  They are applied to imports only.  The same products manufactured in the country are not assessed.  This makes domestic products cheaper causing unfair competition with foreign manufacturers.

Only if the cost of the production is the same, which it is not. That is why virtually everything in Walmart is made in China.

[Rob C]

I don;t understand your point.  GB can set their tariffs as low as they want or have none at all.  That's up to them. 

Also lower currency evaluations raises exports which should be good for GB workers.

Tell me about lower values of the pound. Tell it to all those "GB workers" off on holiday to other European countries. Tell it to your British credit card next time you visit the supermarket for your weekly shopping.

Think about it when your next trip abroad to Europe includes buying travel insurance you once did perfectly well without, the serious stuff once yours for the asking anywhere in the member countries, be they down on the Costas or up in the Alps.

Be grateful the next time a factory closes because your leaders have decided that having joint production ventures with other European countries wasn't worth keeping; you can always claim unemployment benefits, can't you?

I won't even mention the plight of us old sods living abroad, caught in a mess not of our own making, and upon which we could not vote, pensions rendered even lower than they were to begin with (to get an idea ot relativity: France is trying to establish a single pensions system to rationalise the many different ones that currently complictate life there; the suggested, common level, is almost double what I get from her Majesty's gracious government.) You get an idea of who the poor relations within Europe already are?

Lower the value of the pound, and you at once make it even less attractive for all those highly skilled Spanish (and others) nurses and doctors to consider facing a working life in a grim Britain, once a reasonable trade because of the slightly higher salaries and value of the pound against both the local salaries and the euro currency. Recruitment has already tumbled.

Yeah, as Harold Wilson said to international laughter: devaluation doesn't mean that the pound in your pocket is worth less...

(Jeez, I currently feel betrayed by my own erstwhile party of choice, but thinking back to the lunatics on the left, as dear Harold & Co., makes me even more desperate; perhaps the Libs may now come back with a reformed programme and set of realistic aims - they wiped the floor with the Conservatives yesterday at a local election, as the only anti-Brexit party on offer. There may be a silver lining behind that twister after all!)

[Alan Klein]

Only if the cost of the production is the same, which it is not. That is why virtually everything in Walmart is made in China.

First off, regardless of cost to manufacture, if your product has a tariff that isn't applied to domestic made, the foreign manufacturer is working at a disadvantage.  In any case, China is suffering because of US tariffs even though their cost of production is so much less than if made in the US.  AFter all, they have to compete with Vietnam and other foreign manufacturers who have similar cost of production.  Walmart and others are already shifting manufacturers to other countries.  China is reeling from that despite what you read in the anti-Trump biased press. Even some Democrats agree with Trump.   If Apple shifts their production for example to another country, they'll never go back to China.  China knows that and is worried plenty.  As Trump squeezes more and more, it will hurt them more and more.  It's not over, but we'll see what happens.


So if GB charges a tariff to US products that isn't applied to similar products made in other European countries, it will be harder for America to sell it's products to GB.  That's why we don;t want tariffs.

By the way trade between the US and GB is over 200 billion.  A little over $100 billion each way.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... NYS imposed a tax on wine imported from other states like California... California sued...

Dems on Dems violence! 

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Terrific BBC detective series and drama in general. Well, comedy too for that matter. Good history television too.

Finally we agree on something!

[Rob C]

First off, regardless of cost to manufacture, if your product has a tariff that isn't applied to domestic made, the foreign manufacturer is working at a disadvantage.  In any case, China is suffering because of US tariffs even though their cost of production is so much less than if made in the US.  AFter all, they have to compete with Vietnam and other foreign manufacturers who have similar cost of production.  Walmart and others are already shifting manufacturers to other countries.  China is reeling from that despite what you read in the anti-Trump biased press. Even some Democrats agree with Trump.   If Apple shifts their production for example to another country, they'll never go back to China.  China knows that and is worried plenty.  As Trump squeezes more and more, it will hurt them more and more.  It's not over, but we'll see what happens.


So if GB charges a tariff to US products that isn't applied to similar products made in other European countries, it will be harder for America to sell it's products to GB.  That's why we don;t want tariffs.

By the way trade between the US and GB is over 200 billion.  A little over $100 billion each way.

Boris is already promising billions, left, right and centre to cushion Brexit damage (at once, inadvertently, admitting it's real!) so what do a few hundred of them matter when you operate in cloud cuckoo format? From where will all of these billions come, from the same 350 million per week that they lyingly told us were going to be diverted to the health service once we left Europe, and denied as "mistake" instantly, the very day they knew they had won the referendum? There are no existing billions to spend; there is only greater debt - should anyone be dumb enough to lend in the first place.