Brexit Encore

[Rob C]

Perhaps words are not enough, and perhaps too late:

[Alan Klein]

On the contrary: being men without country can have the direct benefit of banding them all together in one "safe" place where folks can keep a surreptitious eye on them; somewhere in the Middle East would be perfect. It's the cell culture that poses domestic dangers: they could be the smiling citizens in the shop at the end of your road, the nice family that's always open into the late hours just in case you run out of whatever. Whodda thunk, the neighbours will say when the fire brigade comes round. In Spanish, they call them the bomberos (the firemen) which is possibly a reference back to earlier centuries of occupation...

I am sure that the normal people of the same ethnicity hate the extremists every bit as much as anyone else does: they kill more of them than they do of us.

I'm not sure of this.  But I don't think in America you can revoke someone's citizenship.  If they commited treason, then they can be tried for it as a crime.  They lose their right to vote.  Although some liberal Democrat states looking for more votes want to grant them back that right.  Not sure what happens after they get out of prison.

[Chris Kern]

I don't think in America you can revoke someone's citizenship.

As a general rule, no.  However, the citizenship of a naturalized citizen can be revoked under certain circumstances.  The government has used this authority to revoke the citizenshp of immigrants who participated in Nazi war crimes, for example.

[Alan Klein]

As a general rule, no.  However, the citizenship of a naturalized citizen can be revoked under certain circumstances.  The government has used this authority to revoke the citizenshp of immigrants who participated in Nazi war crimes, for example.

Ok so a native born American cannot lose his citizenship?

[Chris Kern]

Ok so a native born American cannot lose his citizenship?

As noted in my earlier post, the government can revoke the U.S. citizenship of a naturalized citizen if, for example, it was fraudulently obtained.  Any citizen, native-born or naturalized, can lose his citizenship "by voluntarily performing" certain specified acts "with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality."  These include being naturalized by, making a formal declaration of allegiance to, or serving in the armed forces of another country; renouncing U.S. citizenship; and participating in military action against the United States.  Note that an action that can result in loss of citizenship must be undertaken voluntarily and not under duress.  [8 USC §1481.]

[Alan Klein]

As noted in my earlier post, the government can revoke the U.S. citizenship of a naturalized citizen if, for example, it was fraudulently obtained.  Any citizen, native-born or naturalized, can lose his citizenship "by voluntarily performing" certain specified acts "with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality."  These include being naturalized by, making a formal declaration of allegiance to, or serving in the armed forces of another country; renouncing U.S. citizenship; and participating in military action against the United States.  Note that an action that can result in loss of citizenship must be undertaken voluntarily and not under duress.  [8 USC §1481.]

That's interesting.  So a native born citizen can lose his citizenship.  What happens then when you become man without a country?

[Chris Kern]

That's interesting.  So a native born citizen can lose his citizenship.  What happens then when you become man without a country?

The consequences would be determined by the laws of the country where the stateless person resides.*

Without citizenship, stateless people have no legal protection and no right to vote, and they often lack access to education, employment, health care, registration of birth, marriage or death, and property rights. Stateless people may also encounter travel restrictions, social exclusion, and heightened vulnerability to sexual and physical violence, exploitation, trafficking in persons, forcible displacement, and other abuses.

— U.S. Department of State

———
*Under some circumstances, they might have to "go back [to] the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came."  For example, Michigan.  Or even the Bronx.

[Alan Klein]

The consequences would be determined by the laws of the country where the stateless person resides.*

———
*Under some circumstances, they might have to "go back [to] the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came."  For example, Michigan.  Or even the Bronx.

The Bronx?  That's  where I'm from.  I'll have to move in with AOC. 

[Rob C]

"That's interesting.  So a native born citizen can lose his citizenship. What happens then when you become man without a country?"

You join the ranks of Superman, Batman etc. and become The Man who lives in an Airport.

You get instant media coverage and a book deal.

Rob


P.S.

Why the hell are we discussing American political comedy on a Brexit thread?

[Chris Kern]

P.S.
Why the hell are we discussing American political comedy on a Brexit thread?

Because as long as Britain remains in the European Union, any topic is free to settle in any thread.

[Rob C]

Because as long as Britain remains in the European Union, any topic is free to settle in any thread.

Indeed, as long as it's a European topic and not an American identity/mid-life/psychological diagnosis problem.

;-)

[Alan Klein]

Can some Brit explain what this means?  Can a PM pass laws without parliament?  Or is this something like a presidential order in America?
"'No-deal' Brexit dealt blow by UK parliament"
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/07/brexit-dealt-blow-uk-parliament-190718134130984.html

[Rob C]

Can some Brit explain what this means?  Can a PM pass laws without parliament?  Or is this something like a presidential order in America?
"'No-deal' Brexit dealt blow by UK parliament"
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/07/brexit-dealt-blow-uk-parliament-190718134130984.html

Not a matter of passing laws by him/herself, but of playing games with the rules in order to allow Brexit to happen by default because Parliament, not being in session, wasn't able to gather and put a stop to it.

In today's news, the inner circle of Tory leadership is thinking of altering the party's rules in order to protect the new PM from challenges from within the party during the first year. In other words, if the new guy does something terrible and the majority of his party may want to oust him, it will have to wait a year to challenge him in an attempt do that, and during that period, who knows what devastation may get pushed through. The way I see it, the Tory party has sold its soul to a new radicalism that is unrecognizable.

The loony right rules and it seems those hoping for a sense of moderation have nowhere to look. The opposition is equally split and offering the alternative of extreme left-thinking for as long as Corbyn exists as a power within it.

[Alan Klein]

I'm at Monmouth Park Raceway in New Jersey now. In Rob's honor, I bet $5 to Win on a horse called Brexit Revenge. Race goes off in about 30 minutes. Will advise.

[Alan Klein]

It lost.  Didn't even come in the money.

[kers]

...
The loony right rules and it seems those hoping for a sense of moderation have nowhere to look. The opposition is equally split and offering the alternative of extreme left-thinking for as long as Corbyn exists as a power within it.

It is a time of weak British politicians that talk about themselves, party politics and they know how to play the media and the people.  But i do not see many that go for the content and that have some view of what the future should bring to the country. At a moment of a possible Brexit such politicians are needed.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49021081

[Rob C]

It is a time of weak British politicians that talk about themselves, party politics and they know how to play the media and the people.  But i do not see many that go for the content and that have some view of what the future should bring to the country. At a moment of a possible Brexit such politicians are needed.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49021081

Indeed they do know how to play to their terraces. Unfortunately, it's the only damned thing they do know.

I have lost count of the number of different, independent bodies that have made studies and reports outlining the dire consequences of pulling out without a deal. All these reports get is "they would say that, wouldn't they? as a stock response which, of course, is no response at all. But the fans applaud, as ever...

[Rhossydd]

The loony right rules and it seems those hoping for a sense of moderation have nowhere to look. The opposition is equally split and offering the alternative of extreme left-thinking for as long as Corbyn exists as a power within it.

This is why the LibDems are hugely gaining ground as they are the closest thing to a credible anit-brexit party. Some polls have even put them as the largest party after a new election, although that seems somewhat optimistic, but not actually impossible right now.

[LesPalenik]

Fresh From The Press: Boris Johnson claims moon landing proves he can deliver Brexit.

Writing in what is expected to be his last column in the Daily Telegraph before he enters No10, Mr Johnson said the 50th anniversary of the moon landing, which fell on Sunday, showed why he will be able to deliver Brexit by the 31 October deadline.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-brexit-deadline-irish-border-moon-landing-tory-leadership-hunt-a9015011.html

[Jeremy Roussak]

Fresh From The Press: Boris Johnson claims moon landing proves he can deliver Brexit.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-brexit-deadline-irish-border-moon-landing-tory-leadership-hunt-a9015011.html

The Independent is er, unlikely ever to take a favourable view of anything Johnson either says or does. Think CNN and Trump.

Jeremy