Canon's new mirrorless system - announcement on September 4

[Bernard ODonovan]

Canon Rumours recently posted this:

"We were sent the following last night and have been unable to confirm any of the information in this post. Please do not take this post as fact. It is rated [CR1] and comes from an unknown source.

More Canon EOS R Rumored Specifications:

EOS R 4K Spec
30p 4K All-I or IPB
Canon Log, internal or external
10-bit 4K HDMI clean output support BT.2020 color matrix, not the old BT.709.
Focus Guide from Cinema EOS, no need to worry about using MF Lens
The bar next to EVF is a touch Bar, swipe or tap OK, can be mapped for different functions.
The traditional back dial is moved to the top because there’s where your thumb will put on a smaller body.
The ring on the lens is a control ring, it lets you use both hands to control the camera, like in M mode, you use it with the dials on the body, then you can adjust Tv, Av and ISO with both hands.
No distance scale on the as the distance info will be projected on the EVF directly.
0.05sec AF speed should be the fastest among the FF ML DSLR."

[Rado]

All the 35mm mirrorless cameras (not just Canon) are shown with the sensor exposed when there's no lens mounted. Can anybody explain why? I think it's insane - can't they close the shutter when there's no lens to prevent dust from getting on the sensor? I thought Sony is just being dumb when I saw this behavior on my A7 but maybe there's a better reason?

[DP]

All the 35mm mirrorless cameras (not just Canon) are shown with the sensor exposed when there's no lens mounted. Can anybody explain why? I think it's insane - can't they close the shutter when there's no lens to prevent dust from getting on the sensor? I thought Sony is just being dumb when I saw this behavior on my A7 but maybe there's a better reason?

nobody keeps body laying around w/o lens or body cap... do you ?

[Rado]

nobody keeps body laying around w/o lens or body cap... do you ?

No but I do change lenses and dust gets in. Annoying in general and especially annoying on outdoor trips when you can't clean it easily.

[BernardLanguillier]

A 24-70 f2 would be huge. Making it a 28-70 f2 allows for a size that is acceptable. Most likely we'll see the traditional 16-35, 24-70, 70-200 f2.8 zooms at later releases.

Yes, but who is going to buy a 28-70 f2 and a 24-70 f2.8?

I fully understand the appeal of an f2 zoom, don’t get me wrong, but is the combo of a 24-70 f2.8 and 2 good primes opening at f1.8 or f1.4/f1.2 not a better solution for a large majority or cases?

I am not trying to run down this lens, it is great to have options and I am sure it will be very good optically, I am just trying to understand the thinking process of potential buyers and how they would position it relative to the rest of their lenses.

Cheers,
Bernard

[shadowblade]

Yes, but who is going to buy a 28-70 f2 and a 24-70 f2.8?

I fully understand the appeal of an f2 zoom, don’t get me wrong, but is the combo of a 24-70 f2.8 and 2 good primes opening at f1.8 or f1.4/f1.2 not a better solution for a large majority or cases?

I am not trying to run down this lens, it is great to have options and I am sure it will be very good optically, I am just trying to understand the thinking process of potential buyers and how they would position it relative to the rest of their lenses.

Cheers,
Bernard

No-one is going to buy both. You buy one or the other, depending on need - 11-24, 24-70 and 70-200 (or 100-400 if you can deal with the gap and don't need the speed at those focal lengths) for general photographers, or 16-35, 28-70 and 70-200 if you specifically shoot events and weddings (potentially dropping either the 16-35 or 70-200 if you don't need those focal lengths, or replacing the 70-200/2.8 with a 135/1.8 or 105/1.4).

[shadowblade]

https://www.canonrumors.com/canon-eos-r-full-specifications/

- The AF system sounds very promising. That was always likely to be the case - dual-pixel AF has more potential than the separate AF layer used by Sony/Nikon. The fact that it can shoot at EV -6 is less interesting for the 'shooting in the dark' aspect than for the fact that it likely means good performance in less extreme situations - say, -3 or -4.

- SD cards. Still no mention of whether it's 1 or 2 of them. This will be the difference between an entry-level camera and a well-specced event/wedding camera, and a deal-breaker for a significant subset of users. Sony will be relieved if it turns out to be one slot - no real competition for at least another year or so.

- Battery life marginally better than the Nikon. Of course, CIPA is a crapshoot.

[davidgp]

Yes, but who is going to buy a 28-70 f2 and a 24-70 f2.8?

I fully understand the appeal of an f2 zoom, don’t get me wrong, but is the combo of a 24-70 f2.8 and 2 good primes opening at f1.8 or f1.4/f1.2 not a better solution for a large majority or cases?

I am not trying to run down this lens, it is great to have options and I am sure it will be very good optically, I am just trying to understand the thinking process of potential buyers and how they would position it relative to the rest of their lenses.

Cheers,
Bernard

Hi Bernard,

Tamron released this year the 28-75 f2.8 for E mount. There was a huge expectation about this lens... at least for Sony users... so, yes, I will say there is a market for such a lens.

Regards,

David

[davidgp]

No but I do change lenses and dust gets in. Annoying in general and especially annoying on outdoor trips when you can't clean it easily.

I have been shooting with Sony FE cameras for more than two years now... I don't get more dust than with my old Canon 5D Mark II (I tended to use it in liveview all the time for manual focus). 10 years now of mirrorless cameras and it does not seem to be a huge deal...

[Alex Waugh]

Surely it has USB- C? Do my eyes deceive me. I hate the old connector for tethering.

[shadowblade]

Hi Bernard,

Tamron released this year the 28-75 f2.8 for E mount. There was a huge expectation about this lens... at least for Sony users... so, yes, I will say there is a market for such a lens.

Regards,

David

I would say that was more price- and size-related than anything else. An expensive, 1.4kg f/2.0 zoom is a completely different beast, with a whole different target audience.

[32BT]

Yes, but who is going to buy a 28-70 f2 and a 24-70 f2.8?

I fully understand the appeal of an f2 zoom, don’t get me wrong, but is the combo of a 24-70 f2.8 and 2 good primes opening at f1.8 or f1.4/f1.2 not a better solution for a large majority or cases?

I am not trying to run down this lens, it is great to have options and I am sure it will be very good optically, I am just trying to understand the thinking process of potential buyers and how they would position it relative to the rest of their lenses.

Cheers,
Bernard

May have a to do with cinematic properties. Perhaps the 24 is targeted at stills, the 28 at video with possibly anti-focus-breath measures a la the new Nikon lenses.

[Bernard ODonovan]

Worth noting the lens used to achieve -6EV

"Distance measurement range: EV - 6 to 18 (23 ° C at room temperature · ISO 100 with F1.2 lens)"

 

[Bernard ODonovan]

Canon's decision to have a deeper flange distance, which means in the current EOS R body the flange protrudes a bit, will pay dividends in future on any bigger pro bodies as they will be able to make the camera body flush to that flange and much stronger to support larger lenses...

The turning moment on mirrorless camera lens for a given optical design is much higher than mirror box cameras...

Nikon specs warn a maximum of 1.3 kg lens for body holding. Probably the limit of comfort for the user in any case...

In that respect I do not see one mount being superior to the other as there are pro and cons...

Sony have the bigger issue to face with their APS C mount that is being used with a Full frame sensor. That will limit them more...

[Bernard ODonovan]

This lens and its weight is interesting when considering the body and mount designs

"Canon RF 28-70mm f/2L USM

Lens composition: 13 groups 19 sheets
Minimum focus distance: 39cm (15.35 inches)
Filter diameter: 95mm
Size: 103.8mm (4.08 inches) × 139.8mm (5.5 inches)
Weight: 1430g (3.15lbs)"

[chez]

Hi Bernard,

Tamron released this year the 28-75 f2.8 for E mount. There was a huge expectation about this lens... at least for Sony users... so, yes, I will say there is a market for such a lens.

Regards,

David

Difference being is the Tamron is a nice light lens...the Canon is a pig.

[davidgp]

Difference being is the Tamron is a nice light lens...the Canon is a pig.

F2 comes with a price... you cann't have it lighter and being a f2 zoom...

[HywelPhillips]

I fully understand the appeal of an f2 zoom, don’t get me wrong, but is the combo of a 24-70 f2.8 and 2 good primes opening at f1.8 or f1.4/f1.2 not a better solution for a large majority or cases?

I make my money photographing people and I'd prefer a 28-70mm f/2 to a 24-70mm f/2.8. 24mm is too wide for me- it looks crap photographing women because perspective distortion is almost unavoidable in UK-sized shooting spaces. 28mm is usable with care for wide shots, but by 24mm you almost inevitably have nasty results.

Other photographers with other working patterns might differ, but I'd actually RATHER not have that excess 24 mm on the wide end, and have f/2 instead.

So I'd definitely take a 28-70mm f/2 plus a fast 85mm as my basic shooting kit instead of my current "go to" set ups of 24-70 f/2.8, 28mm, 35mm, 55mm, 85mm if the quality was there. Longer at the telephoto end would be better, but 28mm is way better for me than 24, and I wouldn't cry if it pushed up to 30-plus too much.

My dream all in one lens would be a 35mm-135mm f/2 zoom with stellar optics, in fact. But physics probably forbids.

Obviously, it depends on the optical quality, weight, etc.. but having at least one set up in the kit cupboard which avoids lens-swapping for dusty environments is always good so a two body set-up with a 28-70 f/2 and a 70-200 f/2.8 would hit the sweet spot for me personally.

Cheers, Hywel

[DP]

AF always spec'd for a particular aperture (usually @ F2.0)... if this is for F2.0 and not say marketing trick by saying EV-6 @ F1.2 (with Canon RF 50mm f/1.2L USM)  than it is a very good step... but even EV-6 @ F1.2 is stil better than EV-4 @ F2.0

so I was right @ f1.2... still a very good one !

[DP]

No but I do change lenses and dust gets in. Annoying in general and especially annoying on outdoor trips when you can't clean it easily.

it does not bother you with dSLRs though ? mirror is not a serious protecion at  all