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Author Topic: Canon's new mirrorless system - announcement on September 4  (Read 30207 times)

Bernard ODonovan

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Re: Canon's new mirrorless system - announcement on September 4
« Reply #220 on: September 06, 2018, 01:00:44 pm »

Why would someone jump from their Sony system to Canon with a camera that costs more and delivers less than the Sony equivalent?

I am talking about EOS EF lens users that got a Sony body and adaptor for their EF glass...

Some Sony's cost more...
Some Sony's have less megapixels
Some Sony's have no low pass filter if favoured
The ergonomics of Sony are inferior
The Sony interface is inferior
Some Sony users report cuts and abrasions with some lens to Sony body combos
Sony's A9 is limited to 5fps mechanical. No advantage for that type of shooting
Sony has some models with similar high pixel EVF yet everyone has said the EOS R and Nikon Z viewfinders are significantly better, clearer and more optical VF like...
Sony's have no weather sealing, they are designed and built like the original consumer APS C limited mount body types they started from and Sony have locked users into that smaller mount...

Some users may have had some EF lenses that did not work well on Sony and are happy to move back...

The EOS R is the first model with the worlds fastest AF... There will be more models getting better and better...

People are already posting their intent to shift back...
« Last Edit: September 06, 2018, 01:05:05 pm by Bernard ODonovan »
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Bernard ODonovan

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Re: Canon's new mirrorless system - announcement on September 4
« Reply #221 on: September 06, 2018, 05:09:55 pm »



Frankly, I have nothing negative to say about the Canon R. It is what it is and I am sure it will deliver value to some photographers.

I may even buy one with the 35mm lens when available to see how well it works.

Cheers,
Bernard





Canon appear to have changed their MTF charts. The used to have blue as F8 and Black wide open with 8 plot lines not 4

http://learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2013/reading_MTF_charts.shtml

I suspect the RF 35mm F1.8 Macro IS STM may be optimised for V loggers

Note the handling of the light spheres across the length of the top of the bridge:

https://www.canon.com.au/-/media/images/canon/carousels/eos-r/rf-35mm-f18-macro-is-stm/sample_image_6_rf-35mm-f1-8-macro-is-stm.ashx?mw=840

Fringing in Macro:

https://www.canon.com.au/-/media/images/canon/carousels/eos-r/rf-35mm-f18-macro-is-stm/sample_image_4_rf-35mm-f1-8-macro-is-stm.ashx?mw=840

I am sure it will take nice photos:

https://www.canon.com.au/-/media/images/canon/carousels/eos-r/rf-35mm-f18-macro-is-stm/sample_image_2_rf-35mm-f1-8-macro-is-stm.ashx?mw=840

https://www.canon.com.au/-/media/images/canon/carousels/eos-r/rf-35mm-f18-macro-is-stm/sample_image_3_rf-35mm-f1-8-macro-is-stm.ashx?mw=840

May not be the lens to judge Canon by...
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Bernard ODonovan

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Re: Canon's new mirrorless system - announcement on September 4
« Reply #222 on: September 06, 2018, 05:23:07 pm »

https://cweb.canon.jp/eos/lineup/r/image/downloads/sample01.jpg

Shooting data
Shooting mode   Manual exposure
lens   RF 35 mm F 1.8 MACRO IS STM
Tv (shutter speed)   1/125
Focal length   35.0 mm
Av (Aperture value)   8.0
strobe   Non light emission
Metering method   Evaluation photometry
White balance   Color temperature (4500 K)
Exposure compensation   0
AF mode   Servo AF
ISO sensitivity   100
Picture style   Focus on detail
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Canon's new mirrorless system - announcement on September 4
« Reply #223 on: September 06, 2018, 07:05:05 pm »

May not be the lens to judge Canon by...

Hum... this sounds like a very average lens, nowhere near the Nikon 35mm f1.8 S.

Cheers,
Bernard

chez

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Re: Canon's new mirrorless system - announcement on September 4
« Reply #224 on: September 06, 2018, 08:36:09 pm »

I am talking about EOS EF lens users that got a Sony body and adaptor for their EF glass...

Some Sony's cost more...
Some Sony's have less megapixels
Some Sony's have no low pass filter if favoured
The ergonomics of Sony are inferior
The Sony interface is inferior
Some Sony users report cuts and abrasions with some lens to Sony body combos
Sony's A9 is limited to 5fps mechanical. No advantage for that type of shooting
Sony has some models with similar high pixel EVF yet everyone has said the EOS R and Nikon Z viewfinders are significantly better, clearer and more optical VF like...
Sony's have no weather sealing, they are designed and built like the original consumer APS C limited mount body types they started from and Sony have locked users into that smaller mount...

Some users may have had some EF lenses that did not work well on Sony and are happy to move back...

The EOS R is the first model with the worlds fastest AF... There will be more models getting better and better...

People are already posting their intent to shift back...

Have you ever shot with a Sony...thoughts so. Just read about things on the net...and you believe everything you read...even Fake News.

Lemmings jumping off the cliff.
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Bernard ODonovan

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Re: Canon's new mirrorless system - announcement on September 4
« Reply #225 on: September 06, 2018, 10:33:56 pm »

Have you ever shot with a Sony...thoughts so.

Correct... Never did try...

Just read about things on the net...

Correct...

...and you believe everything you read


Does anyone, really... I doubt it...


...even Fake News.


I understand your concern, I have witnessed a lot of sites lying or just not bothering to research facts...


Lemmings jumping off the cliff.

I hardly think users of EF glass starting to come back to Canon will be seen such a way. Nor anyone that uses Canon exclusively...

If you like Sony and it works for you, you should enjoy it.

Sony do make some great consumer products that are leagues a head of their cheaper rivals

It is a bit like IBIS, some feel they must have it. If you need it go for it. The beauty of having choices...

The power of the NIKON and CANON brand is so strong they will just gain market share... Let's see how things go... They have both made a great start and seem strong in different areas. Both are very capable companies...

I am sure Canon will see growth as EF users come back. Just makes sense for them...

The elephant in the room... Panasonic... Not likely to gain much traction with Nikon and Canon users, I bet Sony feels the pressure there too. Sony have had a good innings in the full frame mirrorless market but they now have more competition than ever...

 :)


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Bernard ODonovan

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Re: Canon's new mirrorless system - announcement on September 4
« Reply #226 on: September 06, 2018, 10:55:07 pm »

Hum... this sounds like a very average lens, nowhere near the Nikon 35mm f1.8 S.

Cheers,
Bernard

The new Canon MTFs are wide open only like Nikon, so it is a fairly good lens sharpness wise, the Canon EF 35 F 1.4 L II USM MTF is better despite the wider apature...

The lights on the bridge will catch some lenses out but that did not look great... Maybe optimised for close range, typical of V loggers and their food pics...  :D

I suspect the Nikon will be a better lens for sharpness and overall correction, but it is not a small macro so the Canon will get some love from its users...  ;)
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chez

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Re: Canon's new mirrorless system - announcement on September 4
« Reply #227 on: September 07, 2018, 09:40:35 am »

Correct... Never did try...

Correct...

Does anyone, really... I doubt it...


I understand your concern, I have witnessed a lot of sites lying or just not bothering to research facts...

I hardly think users of EF glass starting to come back to Canon will be seen such a way. Nor anyone that uses Canon exclusively...

If you like Sony and it works for you, you should enjoy it.

Sony do make some great consumer products that are leagues a head of their cheaper rivals

It is a bit like IBIS, some feel they must have it. If you need it go for it. The beauty of having choices...

The power of the NIKON and CANON brand is so strong they will just gain market share... Let's see how things go... They have both made a great start and seem strong in different areas. Both are very capable companies...

I am sure Canon will see growth as EF users come back. Just makes sense for them...

The elephant in the room... Panasonic... Not likely to gain much traction with Nikon and Canon users, I bet Sony feels the pressure there too. Sony have had a good innings in the full frame mirrorless market but they now have more competition than ever...

 :)

I don't pick my gear based on market share...if that was the case I'd eat at McDonalds rather than my local brew pub. Others follow the crowds...that's fine.
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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: Canon's new mirrorless system - announcement on September 4
« Reply #228 on: September 07, 2018, 10:37:52 am »

IMO, both Canon and Nikon introduced some serious new systems with the Z and R cameras and lenses. Back when Sony introduced the Alpha 7, they had 3 lenses along side: ZA 55 f1.8, ZA 35 f2.8, and kit 28-70.

Canon and Nikon, with their new lenses, are making a serious statement.

Bernard ODonovan

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Re: Canon's new mirrorless system - announcement on September 4
« Reply #229 on: September 07, 2018, 01:56:55 pm »

I don't pick my gear based on market share...if that was the case I'd eat at McDonalds rather than my local brew pub. Others follow the crowds...that's fine.

"two all-beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions, all on a sesame seed bun"

It is possible Sony will diversify, they could bring out Medium Format cameras and keep development of APS C at a pace to play to the strength of their sensors and the suitability of their small mount...

Their share of the full frame market could get to small for them to rely on, time will tell...
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John Hollenberg

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Re: Canon's new mirrorless system - announcement on September 4
« Reply #230 on: September 07, 2018, 06:24:52 pm »

You need a separate shipping location, unpacked lenses, to a none photographer, look very similar, just watch the number visible at one time  ;)

Reminds me that I used to run a service for 2 photographer friends that I called SPCE--Surreptitious Purchasers of Camera Equipment.  These two women would save up cash for a new lens or camera purchase, I would order from B&H for them, deliver to them and accept cash.  No paper trail for them.  Not sure if their husbands didn't catch on or if they just didn't want to know, but happily both are still married.  ;D
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Kirk_C

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Re: Canon's new mirrorless system - announcement on September 4
« Reply #231 on: September 07, 2018, 08:47:39 pm »

There has been some talk on FM regarding affecting the edges of the image if you place glass between the lens and sensor for wide lenses. I'd hold off if you are basing your buying decision on this feature until it's been tested.

The vast majority of these threads is speculation, which is fine, but certainly I'll wait until the reviews are out before buying.
 
Having said that, I'd bet Canon engineers when developing this adapter were targeting the 17 and wide zooms.
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phila

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Re: Canon's new mirrorless system - announcement on September 4
« Reply #232 on: September 09, 2018, 06:46:50 pm »

From canonrumors.com:

What’s coming in the firmware?

Eye detect AF in continuous shooting. The EOS R launches with the ability to do this in one shot.
Additional touch bar functionality added.
Continuous shooting in silent shutter mode. The EOS R only allows this feature in single shot at launch.
A “few tweaks” to video functionality. The 4K crop will not be changed, nor will the maximum frame rate in 4K.
Bug fixes

Guillermo Luijk

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Canon EOS R DR test - shadow lifting
« Reply #233 on: September 10, 2018, 04:18:49 pm »

I took a high contrast RAW file from here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0ySKtnaGBY&feature=youtu.be

Developed with DCRAW, zero noise reduction applied.
IMPORTANT: the first 4 images were rescaled using nearest neighbour in order to display the same SNR as in any 100% crop, but with the advantage of seeing the entire scene.


0EV (original image)


+4EV


+6EV


+8EV




And this is the result of the +6EV and +8EV shadow push with a regular rescaling (SNR gets statistically improved):

+6EV


+8EV



I can see some banding in the deep shadows, but I think the DR is fine, the same as 5D IV's I guess.

Regards

D White

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Re: Canon's new mirrorless system - announcement on September 4
« Reply #234 on: October 08, 2018, 04:49:40 pm »

Well, I was so impressed with the new Canon that I bought a Song A7R3 a week ago to use with adapters.

The image quality on the Sony files is just so much better than my 5DSR if you try to open things up more dramatically. You can not always exposure blend as a work around. You can also get pattern banding in the highlights in the Canon if you bring down detail too much from your "expose to the right" file.

I got a MB V and Sigma adapters; as this Sony is primarily for landscapes on a tripod the limitations are not a problem. Although the eye focus is still very workable with the Sigma optics.

My 1Dx2 still pleases me for what I use it for; wildlife and natural light portraits. It does not have the same banding issues as the 5DSR has. But I sort of wish I could just get a Sony A9 to have the same ergonomics with both.

This new body will be a holding pattern for me to get quality files for my landscapes while giving just a bit more time to see what Canon does with a pro mirrorless. If they do not get their sensor crap together I may consider a large change to Sony native lenses and just keep some Canon like the fleet of TS lenses I have. I like my Canon optics and do not want to change but I can not wait forever. I do not think many of the Sony lenses are actually that great, or I would change now. Nikon is too much in a state of flux to put my bets there.

The 12 pages of the Canon thread compared to 62 on the Nikon thread says something?

If we could combine Sony sensors with Canon ergonomics we could get excited.

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Dr D White DDS BSc

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Re: Canon's new mirrorless system - announcement on September 4
« Reply #235 on: October 09, 2018, 08:15:43 am »

Alongside of my Canon bodies I have a A7II. However better that sensor is I just can't get the colors to look the way I want with the Sony files, so I'll be testing the new R when it's available (should be soon).

12 vs 62 pages just says this thread doesn't have Bernard and shadowblade "arguing" back and forth in 800 posts *shrug*
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Canon's new mirrorless system - announcement on September 4
« Reply #236 on: October 09, 2018, 08:45:17 am »

Also struggled with Sony colour. Capture 1 sorted it out, to my surprise
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Commercial photography is 10% inspiration and 90% moving furniture around.
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