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Author Topic: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018  (Read 160151 times)

Ray

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1240 on: October 10, 2018, 01:38:26 am »

It's always possible to take nice or interesting photos, whatever camera one is using. However, when one is thinking of spending a significant amount of money on an upgrade, one needs a comparison with one's existing equipment in order to assess if the upgrade is worth the money.

For example, one of the major attractions of the Z7 and 24-70/F4 combination, is the 'claimed'  better sharpness at the edges and corners. If I were in possession of a Z7 and 24-70 S, one of the first tests I would be doing is comparing edge and corner resolution with my Nikkor 14-24, at 24mm and F8.

One of the main reasons I bought the Nikkor 14-24/F2.8 many years ago, was because the zoom was claimed to have the performance of many highly regarded primes at specific focal lengths within the zoom range. My own tests also confirmed that edge and corner resolution was far better than my then current wide-angle zoom, the Sigma 15-30 mm.

Having recently returned from a trip to China, I came across the following shot when processing my RAW files. As I understand, the location, if not the actual peak portrayed in the photo, is named 'The Beginning to Believe Peak'.

Apparently, some Chinese character in the ancient past was very skeptical about the  claims of the wondrous beauty of this area in the 'Yellow Mountains'. When he visited the place himself, his opinion gradually changed, and he gradually began to accept and believe that the reports he'd heard, of the magnificence of the mountains, were correct.

Sounds similar to the current problem with the Z7.  ;D

The 100% crop in the attached 3 images reveals a significant fuzziness that I hope would have been reduced had I been using a Z7 with 24-70 S, at 24mm. The camera used for the attached shot was the D810.

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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1241 on: October 10, 2018, 02:52:08 am »

Ray,

Nice images!

Where these shot with the 14-24 f2.8?

Cheers,
Bernard

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1242 on: October 10, 2018, 02:53:54 am »

Bravo... keep them coming!

Yes sir, thanks for the encouragement!  ;D



Cheers,
Bernard

Ray

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1243 on: October 10, 2018, 04:14:27 am »

Ray,

Nice images!

Where these shot with the 14-24 f2.8?

Cheers,
Bernard

Thanks! Yes. It's just one shot with the D810 and 14-24 F2.8 zoom, but the aperture used was F8. I wouldn't expect corners to be as sharp at F2.8.
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armand

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1244 on: October 10, 2018, 04:18:34 am »

Quote
For example, one of the major attractions of the Z7 and 24-70/F4 combination, is the 'claimed'  better sharpness at the edges and corners. If I were in possession of a Z7 and 24-70 S, one of the first tests I would be doing is comparing edge and corner resolution with my Nikkor 14-24, at 24mm and F8. 

Jim Kasson tested the 24-70 F4 against the 24-70 F2.8G and they were close.
For the 14-24 comparison you might want to wait until next year for the 15-30 F4.

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1245 on: October 10, 2018, 08:31:38 am »

@Bernard - Great images from the Z7 and the 35mm lens.  This looks like just the kind of set up I would like to have while traveling as it would be lighter than by D810.  Right now, I have the small Peak Designs bag but that will only hold the D810 with a 24-85 3.5-4.5 zoom; no room at all for a second lens.  I know that for some mirrorless systems there is room for the body and a couple of lenses.  I'll need to look at the Nikon Z dimensions and see if this is the case as well.  In any event, I need to wait until the end of the year when I take my IRA distribution! ;D
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Ray

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1246 on: October 10, 2018, 08:50:52 am »

Jim Kasson tested the 24-70 F4 against the 24-70 F2.8G and they were close.
For the 14-24 comparison you might want to wait until next year for the 15-30 F4.

In the meantime I would be more interested in seeing comparisons between my existing lenses and what's currently available for the new Z7 mount. I don't own a 24-70/F2.8; too heavy for me, especially when carried with the 14-24/F2.8.

Nevertheless, I'll be very interested in the 15-30 F4 which could be an ideal replacement for my rather heavy 14-24 F2.8.
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elliot_n

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1247 on: October 10, 2018, 08:55:16 am »

Nice pictures Bernard. I have a soft spot for downtown Tokyo, but over and above that, your camera/lens combo is imparting something special. The pictures seem very clean and clear.

(Any chance you could share one at full resolution?)
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1248 on: October 10, 2018, 11:17:42 am »

... your camera/lens combo is imparting something special...

Ah, are we witnessing the birth of a Nikon-Z Leicanesque mystique?  ;)

32BT

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1249 on: October 10, 2018, 12:03:02 pm »

Ah, are we witnessing the birth of a Nikon-Z Leicanesque mystique?  ;)

+1

 to the sarcasm, that is. Bernard's pictures have always been sharp and clean.
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~ O ~
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chez

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1250 on: October 10, 2018, 12:28:38 pm »

+1

 to the sarcasm, that is. Bernard's pictures have always been sharp and clean.

But doesn't just about any camera today deliver sharp clean images under nice lighting?
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Riverman

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1251 on: October 10, 2018, 12:49:25 pm »

So what lenses aren't sharp?  Even today's kit lenses are sharp enough. 
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Christopher

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1252 on: October 10, 2018, 12:51:19 pm »

I think there are quite different opinions on what is actually sharp....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Christopher Hauser
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elliot_n

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1253 on: October 10, 2018, 12:55:37 pm »

I didn't say 'sharp', I said 'clear'.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1254 on: October 10, 2018, 01:38:52 pm »

I didn't say 'sharp', I said 'clear'.

That clears it up then. As opposed to my murky Canon shots:

32BT

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1255 on: October 10, 2018, 01:39:32 pm »

The point is: even if you give Bernard a Canon (god forbid) then he'd still come back with sharp and clear images. It's a result of his attention to the photographic process, not equipment related at all, imo.

Now, if you look at some of Keith's images (KLaban), that's where you'll find some of that magical sharp and clear beyond attention to process. AS IF there is no glass between the viewer and the scene, a kind of sharp and clear that i currently ascribe to equipment or particular look.

Some of the first 850 images from capable hands have swept me and many others off of our feet. The Z system, despite its potential or promises, have yet to do something similar.
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Rob C

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1256 on: October 10, 2018, 03:23:10 pm »

The point is: even if you give Bernard a Canon (god forbid) then he'd still come back with sharp and clear images. It's a result of his attention to the photographic process, not equipment related at all, imo.

Now, if you look at some of Keith's images (KLaban), that's where you'll find some of that magical sharp and clear beyond attention to process. AS IF there is no glass between the viewer and the scene, a kind of sharp and clear that i currently ascribe to equipment or particular look.

Some of the first 850 images from capable hands have swept me and many others off of our feet. The Z system, despite its potential or promises, have yet to do something similar.


Getting swept off my feet would just give me a nasty bump which, on its own, would fail to provide me with a new, better camera and even if it did, my determination not to saddle myself with tripods again unless I get really, really brilliantly lit up one day and decide to use the 500 cat. once more, means that only a miraculous stabilisation system (which I have on nothing) would help me make it more successfully through the night physical barrier of human shakings.

Doomed, I tell you, doomed! But who cares? I don't! What I get is good enough for what I need. On that level I can be content. However, my Leica M style camera unfulfilled wish still remains, not because I think it would make anything better, just that I never did get round to buying one when I could easily do so. Now, like then, it can't be justified, and equipment justification has always run deep within me. I think I inherited that fiscal caution. Probably just as well, what with Brexit and all...

:-)

johnvanatta

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1257 on: October 10, 2018, 04:21:21 pm »

I don't think any of the Z lenses qualify for mystical adoration...after all, they're all less than $1000. It's simply not possible ;)

That being said, I find the out of focus areas from the 24-70 to be quite pleasing. Not something zooms, even excellent ones, are known for.

Tough conditions: heavy fog, half an hour before sunset, probably some water on the lens front by this point, ISO 1600 + some pushing, handheld.
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davidgp

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1258 on: October 10, 2018, 05:36:03 pm »

Indeed but considering the need to adapt AF-S lenses with good level of AF performance, it does make sense that they went for a solution where contrast AF isn't needed.

But this is just a plausible guess at this point. I don't think anybody got an official explanation from Nikon regarding the way the Z AF works.

AF-C and AF-S may not be working the same way either. AF fine tune is common to both AF-S and AF-C, so we don't really know how it works for both modes.

Cheers,
Bernard

Hi Bernard,

Not sure if you are following Jim Kasson (he is forum member here) testing of the Z7, but he suggests that the Z7 does indeed the CDAF Trim phase: https://blog.kasson.com/nikon-z6-7/z7-vs-d850-afs-accuracy-with-nikon-58-1-4/ . He is quite happy with the precise focusing of the camera vs the D850.

Regards,

David

SrMi

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1259 on: October 10, 2018, 06:29:54 pm »

Hi Bernard,

Not sure if you are following Jim Kasson (he is forum member here) testing of the Z7, but he suggests that the Z7 does indeed the CDAF Trim phase: https://blog.kasson.com/nikon-z6-7/z7-vs-d850-afs-accuracy-with-nikon-58-1-4/ . He is quite happy with the precise focusing of the camera vs the D850.

Regards,

David

Nikon has confirmed that they use CDAF with adapted lenses. It is not yet known if they use it with S lenses.
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