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Author Topic: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019  (Read 14114 times)

BJL

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Alex Waugh

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2018, 09:11:06 PM »

Probably an announcement.

Should be a great Photokina though. Canons FF mirrorless should be ready, Leica Q2 & possibly Hasselblad X2D.
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Two23

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2018, 10:10:55 PM »

I've got a hunch this is going to cost more than I want to pay.  I'm actually pretty happy with what I have. :)


Kent in SD
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Jonathan Cross

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2018, 04:53:41 AM »

+1

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Jonathan in UK

BJL

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Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming BY March 2019 (more optimistic)
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2018, 09:19:53 AM »

Thom Hogan had a more optimistic interpretation: that the comment from a Nikon rep. was solely about it coming in the current fiscal year, which ends on March 31, 2019; because this is a comment related to the fiscal year report coming out soon. So it could be anytime between now and then, and all I am betting on is ďmore news at PhotokinaĒ.
For now his comments are on his front page http://bythom.com
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HSakols

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2018, 10:06:02 AM »

Right now there is now point to go mirrorless because most nikon lenses are monsters.  Now if they redesigned the old AFD primes and came up with a 24-70 f4-5.6 that would be different. 
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Eric Brody

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2018, 11:40:47 AM »

Hugh, I gently beg to differ. For a long time, my Fuji years, (after my Nikon full frame years) I was an advocate of mirrorless because of the size of the camera and lenses. I criticized Sony mirrorless because while it had a diminutive body, their full frame lenses were quite large. I now own Sony gear and its large lenses, and have come to the realization that the best reasons for mirrorless are the EVF and its options for magnification for manual focus, the lack of a mirror for accuracy of focus and a whole bunch of others. You can't beat physics (usually). Full frame, fast autofocus lenses are going to be large. The Sigma Art lenses, while excellent are not petite. Their 35mm f/1.4 is 1.5 POUNDS! the Sony 35mm f/2.8 (slower, I know), is 4.5 OUNCES! My Sony 24-70 f/2.8 is what you would call a monster but it is capable of impressive images. I loved the Fuji system and will never say anything bad about it but it's small because it is APS-C. They also engineered superb optics for it.

I'm certain Nikon and Canon will make excellent and interesting systems for us to discuss into the future.
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BJL

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Eric, I agree with all of this, but have one comment about size advantages.
For a long time ... I was an advocate of mirrorless because of the size of the camera and lenses. ... I now ... have come to the realization that the best reasons for mirrorless are the EVF and its options for magnification for manual focus, the lack of a mirror for accuracy of focus and a whole bunch of others.
There is still one respect in which an EVF does help with allowing the _option_ of downsizing, even though there are also good reasons to combine an EVF body with big, bright, fast lenses. This is the fact that the far greater low light handling of modern sensors compared to film means that, when the reason for using those big lenses is speed (rather than the esthetic goal of very blurry backgrounds) then the same speed and low-light handling can now be achieved with far smaller, lighter lenses. The speed achieved with 35mm film and the fastest lenses can be matched or exceeded at about f/8 in 35mm format, but also at about f/5 in APS-C at 2/3 the focal length, f/4 at half the focal length in 4/3", and so on.

But no matter how this lens downsizing is achieved (with or without sensor downsizing) it means that these smaller lenses gather light far less quickly than do the big, bright lenses of the film era and of high-end 35mm format DSLR usage ... and this is a problem for optical viewfinders, at least with manual focusing!

A common complaint in this forum and others is that the OVFs on DSLRs in the new sub-35mm "digital only" formats give an image that undesirably small and/or dim. And if one stays with a good 35mm format SLR viewfinder but downsize the lenses to f/8 or slower, there would be the same OVF dimness problem in many situations. (Try DOF preview with the lens at f/8 to see what I mean.)

I suggest that the coming preferred solution for this "kit downsizing through lens downsizing" is to abandon the OVF in favor of an EVF (or using the rear screen if and when you are comfortable composing that way.) Therefore I do still see the case for EVF cameras being strongest with the new smaller "digital-only" formats, even if there is also a good case for having EVFs as an _option_ with 36x24mm and 44x33mm sensors too.

Entry-level APS-C DSLRs with their small penta-mirror OVFs of less than 100% coverage might not be on the market for many more years.
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Telecaster

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2018, 03:05:57 PM »

One of the things I really like about Zeiss' Batis lens lineup for Sony EVF cameras is how light they are. I'll take the minor speed reduction in exchange for a noticeably lighter load any day.

-Dave-
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HSakols

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2018, 03:32:27 PM »

Quote
I criticized Sony mirrorless because while it had a diminutive body, their full frame lenses were quite large. I now own Sony gear and its large lenses, and have come to the realization that the best reasons for mirrorless are the EVF and its options for magnification for manual focus, the lack of a mirror for accuracy of focus and a whole bunch of others. You can't beat physics (usually).
  This is a good point.  But yes, full frame lenses are still heavy!  When comparing the Nikon d850 with 24-120 and compare it to the sony with 24-105 the weight difference is less than a pound.  Mirror slap is something I could do without especially with my D800.
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kers

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2018, 03:42:52 PM »

There is a chance it will have a curved sensor and a new bajonet...
( according to Nikon rumours)
A curved sensor would mean better lenses with a more simple architecture; smaller.
Combined with a non lagging good EVF it could bring something extra on the table.
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Pieter Kers
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BJL

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Nikonís new mirrorless system ... I doubt with curved sensors
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2018, 05:29:44 PM »

A curved sensor would mean better lenses with a more simple architecture; smaller.
It would also ruin in any backward compatibility with existing lenses (unless some fancy optical adaptor could fix that) so I am skeptical.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system ... I doubt with curved sensors
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2018, 07:10:37 PM »

It would also ruin in any backward compatibility with existing lenses (unless some fancy optical adaptor could fix that) so I am skeptical.

Most significantly non Nikon ones.

But then again, Nikon may decide that performance is the most important thing. Considering that they have arguably the best engineering team of any camera company, it would make sense for them to just go what the heck and release a camera that nobody else can release.

They have done that with DSLRs with the D850, they may just go the high route and believe in their skills.

Future will tell.

Cheers,
Bernard

davidgp

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2018, 03:22:05 AM »

There is a chance it will have a curved sensor and a new bajonet...
( according to Nikon rumours)
A curved sensor would mean better lenses with a more simple architecture; smaller.
Combined with a non lagging good EVF it could bring something extra on the table.

I donít remember where I read one camera engineer (donít remember which manufacturer) saying that zoom lenses are problematic if not imposible for curved sensors... maybe I remember wrong...




http://dgpfotografia.com

BJL

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I donít remember where I read one camera engineer (donít remember which manufacturer) saying that zoom lenses are problematic if not impossible for curved sensors... maybe I remember wrong...

http://dgpfotografia.com
Good point! All the recent patents relating to curved sensors (I have seen them from both Nikon and Sony) are for fixed focal lengths; in fact they are all for normal or wide FOV.  As I understand it, the idea is to simplify the lens deign by making little or no correction of field curvature, and then match the sensor's curvature to that field curvature.  But uncorrected field curvature is about inversely proportional to focal length, so a wide range of focal lengths would require different sensor curvatures.

My guess is that these curved sensor designs are for things like security cameras, phone cameras, web-cams, backing-up cameras in cars and all the billions of small cheap camera modules in our ever increasing array of "smart" devices; cameras with a single lens of a single focal length.
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fredjeang2

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system ... I doubt with curved sensors
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2018, 10:04:52 AM »

Most significantly non Nikon ones.

Considering that they have arguably the best engineering team of any camera company...
?!?
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BJL

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My guess is that these curved sensor designs are for ... cameras with a single lens of a single focal length.
I just learnt of an early, fun example: the Kodak Brownie 127, which compensated for its very simple lens by curving the film!
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2018, 06:12:34 PM »

Who wants to bet that this new Leica mirrorless will feature the exact same sensor Nikon will use in their upcoming FF mirrorless?

https://leicarumors.com/2018/05/28/new-leica-mirrorless-camera-to-be-announced-in-june-leica-c-m.aspx/

Youíve got to be impressed by the strange tribulations of destiny. Nikon started as a manufacuter of superior rangefinder lenses doing better than Leitz for less money. And here we are, 50 years later, with the 2 brands likely to be closer than they ever were, competing neck to neck for the top spot in Premium mirrorless offerings.

At least if my guess is right.  ;D

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: May 29, 2018, 06:18:52 PM by BernardLanguillier »
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in early 2019
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2018, 02:36:34 AM »

I think a lot of wishful thinking here. Nikon doesnít even have a camera yet and already itís competing for top spot.

I just hope itís good. No one wants to see Nikon fail. And they have to compete with Sonyís plans to spend 9 billion over the next few years on development.
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