Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018

[LesPalenik]

Not too be the devil's advocate but this could be much closer in weight.
Z7 with 24-70 - about 1100g

Nikon doesn't have a 24-70 F4 for F-mount but a Canon 24-70 F4 is 600g, so a D850 combo would be around 1500g. Going back to what I said in the past, there is no reason why a D750 cannot have a high resolution sensor and it's 750g.

So in an ideal world the difference could be 1100g vs 1350g.

In other words, the difference between Z7 with 24-70 and 850 combo is 400g which compares to the combined weight of one Big Mac (240g) with large fries (150g). For some photographers who want to save on carrying excessive weight, it might be cheaper to change their eating habits than the camera systems.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

In other words, the difference between Z7 with 24-70 and 850 combo is 400g which compares to the combined weight of one Big Mac (240g) with large fries (150g). For some photographers who want to save on carrying excessive weight, it might be cheaper to change their eating habits than the camera systems.

Post of the Year!!!

[armand]

In other words, the difference between Z7 with 24-70 and 850 combo is 400g which compares to the combined weight of one Big Mac (240g) with large fries (150g). For some photographers who want to save on carrying excessive weight, it might be cheaper to change their eating habits than the camera systems.

Could be but Nikon doesn't have a 24-70 F4. With the 24-120 it's not light.

In other order I went to a Best Buy to pick up a XQD card (couldn't wait) and to my surprise they had lots of cameras on display.

The Sony A7 series didn't feel any better than the Nikon. The best felt the E-M1ii.
I also played with a D850 with a 24-70 F2.8G. I'll definitely not carry that thing in the mountains.

[BJL]

So in an ideal world the difference could be 1100g vs 1350g.

Yes; not a huge deal in itself. As I said at greater length in another thread,
https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=126656.msg1068369#msg1068369
the main way to reduce kit weight is to reduce lens weight through smaller effective aperture diameter, meaning higher minimum f-stop and/or a smaller format (or to be pedantic, higher sensor resolution). In turn, one thing that helps to make those smaller apertures acceptable more often is better IS, like 5-axis IBIS—better yet, coordinating that with in-lens IS.

[BernardLanguillier]

Z7 + 35mm f1.8 S

Cheers,
Bernard

[BernardLanguillier]

In other words, the difference between Z7 with 24-70 and 850 combo is 400g which compares to the combined weight of one Big Mac (240g) with large fries (150g). For some photographers who want to save on carrying excessive weight, it might be cheaper to change their eating habits than the camera systems.

True, but that has always been the case, yet lighter and more compact has been the key initial selling point of mirrorless camera systems (that is until the lenses because larger then DSLR ones ).

Cheers,
Bernard

[John Camp]

Hi John - maybe difficult to answer your questions objectively. My take is that I would simply not go out of the house to walk around with the D850 unless I were planning on shooting a lot of photos. The Z7 is light enough that I can take it out and if I come across something interesting, great, but if I come home without having used it, it's not the end of the world. In that sense it is a good replacement for my Oly EM1.

In terms of being obvious, I suppose it's like any small DSLR - perhaps less obvious because it's all black. I don't see it as a very unobtrusive "street" camera but it's far from a bazooka.

Not sure I was very helpful ...

Actually, that does help. So like a small DSLR, with a FF lens. Huh. My GX8 with a 12-35 (24-70 equiv) is just under 800 grams (~28 ounces) including battery and memory card...so quite a bit smaller. I took my D800 to a drag strip a few weeks ago with the cars running from late afternoon until full night, and my D800 did quite a bit better than the GX8 in the lowest light with higher ISOs.  On the other hand, I've got two Voightlander f0.95 lenses for the GX8 that I wasn't using at the drag strip. I've got a lot to mull over here.

[Dan Wells]

On the wide-to-normal end, the mount means that the lenses don't have to be what we think of as FF sized (or at least not what FF  size has come to mean in the digital era - there were a lot of really compact film-era FF lenses)...

[jeremyrh]

True, but that has always been the case,

Not really. If someone thinks that not eating a Big Mac will lose them quarter of a kilo, I've got a bridge they might want to buy. Or, indeed, a diet plan.

[BernardLanguillier]

Not really. If someone thinks that not eating a Big Mac will lose them quarter of a kilo, I've got a bridge they might want to buy. Or, indeed, a diet plan.

True enough.

I was speaking about the fact that the amount of weight saved by mirrorless over DSLRs was once very strongly highlighted by some Sony shooters.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Dan Wells]

Weight suspended from the neck is really valuable weight to get rid of - going from 2085 grams (D850 with 24-70 VR) to 1135 grams (Z7 with 24-70) around your neck is huge. Yes, you lose a stop, and if Nikon made a high-quality 24-70 f4 VR in F-mount, about half the weight savings would go away (about half of it is that the f2.8 lens is big and heavy, and the Z-mount version will probably be only modestly lighter).

There is presently no 24-70 f4 compatible with a camera with a high-resolution, high-DR sensor other than the Z-mount lens and the inferior Sony "Zeiss". Canon makes one, but their sensors aren't as capable as the Sony/Nikon group. Nikon makes a variable aperture 24-85 (not in the same league as far as I know), and a 24-120 f4, and Sony makes a pretty good 24-105 f4 (as does Canon). The lenses with much longer telephoto ends are quite a bit heavier, although the range is useful, and many initial tests suggest they aren't close to as sharp as the Z lens (most testing shows the Z as very, very sharp in the central 80-90% of the image).

[BernardLanguillier]

Z7 + 35mm f1.8 S

Cheers,
Bernard

[HSakols]

Does the 24-70 zoom come with a lens shade?  I like the last image Bernard. 

[cgarnerhome]

It does come with a lens shade.  It's pretty cheap though.  Not sure camera manufactures do such a poor job with lens shades.

[Martin Kristiansen]

Yes nice shot Bernard. Glad to see you out and about using the camera. It’s clearly a capable piece of equipment.

Regarding the weight I don’t think the saving is insignificant. Like packing a backpack. Easy to say it’s only 100g but say that often enough and you are in for a tough time. There is also the smaller form factor that makes you much less threatening on the street, and less of a target for criminals. All important in my world. I would buy this Z7, wouldn’t consider the 850 as good a camera as it is.

People sure got hysterical about this camera. Pleased to see that’s dying down a little and people,e are simply starting to use the thing.

[armand]

It does come with a lens shade.  It's pretty cheap though.  Not sure camera manufactures do such a poor job with lens shades.

I don’t mind that it is flimsy, maybe it absorbs the shocks better and saves the lens.

[Dan Wells]

NOBODY makes uniformly high-quality lens hoods (well, maybe Leica)... Nikon and Canon make some beauties for the supertelephotos, and Fuji has some nice ones but a bunch of terrible ones as well.

[D Fuller]

I don’t mind that it is flimsy, maybe it absorbs the shocks better and saves the lens.

I think this is spot on. I like the lens shades on the zoom and on the 35mm. They fit snugly, so they are in no danger of bent knocked off by a casual bump, and they shade stray light, which is what they're supposed to do. I also like that they're a bit flexible. That means they'll absorb a little shock without transferring it to the lens, and are much less likely to sustain damage than a metal shade. Also (a pet peeve of mine with some other shades) they have a flat enough front on the blades that you can stand the lens up on them without it falling over if you breathe on it.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

"Canon EOS M rules Japanese ILC market"

"Canon’s APS-C mirrorless format beating Nikon, Sony, Panasonic and Olympus"

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/canon-eos-m-rules-japanese-ilc-market?utm_content=bufferfd41e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer_dcwfb

for the month of September, the Canon EOS M50 was the best-selling interchangeable lens camera (ILC) in Japan – outselling all other DSLRs and mirrorless cameras.

[armand]

"Canon EOS M rules Japanese ILC market"

"Canon’s APS-C mirrorless format beating Nikon, Sony, Panasonic and Olympus"

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/canon-eos-m-rules-japanese-ilc-market?utm_content=bufferfd41e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer_dcwfb

Seems to be a nice camera that happens to be cheaper than many others.