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Author Topic: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018  (Read 160079 times)

Telecaster

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1000 on: September 17, 2018, 04:32:51 pm »

Around this time in 2002 the ICP in New York hosted Winogrand 1964, an exhibition featuring a fair amount of color work taken on Kodachrome. A friend and I went to see it. The photos were displayed pretty big, with some ~6x4'. Huge grain and fuzzy detail from more than a few of 'em but the subject matter and composition made that all but irrelevant. I think the strong texture and lack of fine detail even enhanced our appreciation of the framing and content.

-Dave-
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Rob C

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1001 on: September 17, 2018, 05:37:04 pm »

Around this time in 2002 the ICP in New York hosted Winogrand 1964, an exhibition featuring a fair amount of color work taken on Kodachrome. A friend and I went to see it. The photos were displayed pretty big, with some ~6x4'. Huge grain and fuzzy detail from more than a few of 'em but the subject matter and composition made that all but irrelevant. I think the strong texture and lack of fine detail even enhanced our appreciation of the framing and content.

-Dave-


Which is why Sarah Moon used 500 ASA colour film for so much of her early work. Even with low magnification the grain was visible to give its intrinsic quality effect.

You need only consider that street posters were also made from 135 and 120 film quite often, and seen from the car or the pavement, those hoardings could look amazing.

It's all down to viewing distance, but even so, I think that small digital doesn't hold up nicely; grain can be attractive, but not pixels.

However, even at nominal 400/320 ASA there are differences in look when blown up very large. Ilford's fast stuff was softer, more mushy at extremes, whereas Kodak's version was harder, more crisply granular, which I guess comes down to coating techniques more than chemistry, because grain is grain and perhaps the way you pile it together makes the difference in look - or not. Grey area, so to speak.

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1002 on: September 18, 2018, 01:50:29 am »

https://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/reviews/compactsystemcameras/nikon-z7

Very positive review overall.

Their conclusion:

Indeed the Z 7 gives the impression that Nikon hasn’t held anything back in a bid to protect its DSLRs, and instead has produced the best mirrorless camera it believes it can make right now, that will handle more-or-less like a mini-D850.  This sets it apart from Canon’s EOS R, which feels more like a design experiment that’s trying to be different for the sake of it. Naturally the Z 7 has its own foibles and irritations, but overall it gets considerably more right than it does wrong. Indeed for applications where its few specific weaknesses are unimportant, I think that on balance, it’s the best camera on the market right now, either mirrorless or DSLR.
Read more at https://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/reviews/compactsystemcameras/nikon-z7/8#QAy9h46w1LukcMxC.99


Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 02:04:42 am by BernardLanguillier »
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jeremyrh

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1003 on: September 18, 2018, 05:57:46 am »

https://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/reviews/compactsystemcameras/nikon-z7

Very positive review overall.

Their conclusion:

Indeed the Z 7 gives the impression that Nikon hasn’t held anything back in a bid to protect its DSLRs, and instead has produced the best mirrorless camera it believes it can make right now, that will handle more-or-less like a mini-D850.  This sets it apart from Canon’s EOS R, which feels more like a design experiment that’s trying to be different for the sake of it. Naturally the Z 7 has its own foibles and irritations, but overall it gets considerably more right than it does wrong. Indeed for applications where its few specific weaknesses are unimportant, I think that on balance, it’s the best camera on the market right now, either mirrorless or DSLR.
Read more at https://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/reviews/compactsystemcameras/nikon-z7/8#QAy9h46w1LukcMxC.99


Cheers,
Bernard

Yes, very positive - did they not read Kevin's summary ?
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1004 on: September 18, 2018, 08:26:03 am »

Yes, very positive - did they not read Kevin's summary ?

Well, Kevin essentially just wrote that the lenses feel cheap(er than heavy metal ones) and that his friend Tony killed the Z7. Which is factual.

Cheers,
Bernard

bobtowery

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1005 on: September 18, 2018, 02:23:02 pm »

Re: the one QXD card issue. Seems to me it would have been very easy to include 128gb (or more) of internal memory. There isn't even any setup. Whatever is written to the card is written to internal memory, overwriting the oldest files. You can then connect the camera to computer via USB, and have the option of reading internal or the card.

In the unlikely event that a card ever failed, you'd have that much of of your images stored in the internal memory.

It's true that having another card slot would take up more precious real estate. A small on-board memory chip would solve this and would be faster than any card.

And there's an additional benefit that if you ended up forgetting your card (etc) you could choose to go ahead and shoot with internal memory only.

There you go Nikon!
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Dan Wells

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1006 on: September 21, 2018, 01:55:25 pm »

More evidence that the new Nikkor Z lenses may be exceptional... Tokina just released computed MTF charts on their new Opera 50mm f1.4 (a competitor to Sigma Art in the "super 50mm, cheaper than Otus and with AF" category). They're significantly better than the mostly older and cheaper F-mount Nikkors (as you'd expect a $949, 950 gram (nearly 2 lb) lens to be), but they aren't even in a league with the Z-mount lens. Of course, this is computed chart to computed chart - I'll be very interested to see Roger Cicala's real measurements, then see (more importantly) what photographers can do with these lenses in the real world... Yes, the Tokina is half a stop faster - but the charts didn't look close enough that stopping it down should close the gap...
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gkroeger

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1007 on: September 21, 2018, 03:37:57 pm »

Where Nikon has an opportunity to "hit it out of the park" is in consistency and QC. Sample to sample variation and alignment issues are often the real limitations on lens performance, not the ultimate potential of the design. In their introduction, Nikon seemed to be emphasizing better QC.
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faberryman

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1008 on: September 21, 2018, 04:24:27 pm »

In their introduction, Nikon seemed to be emphasizing better QC.
How so?
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gkroeger

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1009 on: September 21, 2018, 05:09:42 pm »

At about 33.5 minutes into the long, boring introduction event, they explained that the S-line grade is reserved for lenses that have cleared more rigorous standards for MTF performance and stricter quality control standards.  We'll see?
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1010 on: September 21, 2018, 05:26:57 pm »

How so?

By stressing that one characteristic of the S series lenses are tighter and more repeatable manufacturing tolerances.

I am a bit surprised overall by the lack of acknowledgement about Nikon’s skills in terms of iens design sometimes. All of their recent F mount releases have been best in class in their segment (19mm T/S, 105mm f1.4, 70-200 f2.8,...) and those were just regular F mount lenses designed for a mount known to be super limiting optically.

Cheers,
Bernard

johnvanatta

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1011 on: September 21, 2018, 07:38:32 pm »

The bit about QC is in the lens brochure too. It's a fairly thorough document that I'm not sure Nikon bothered to tell anyone existed?

https://cdn-4.nikon-cdn.com/e/Q5NM96RZZo-RRZZFeeMiveET0gpU-PYm90DZMEpjBfZRR51BYn9b4sjxcCuc2_t9Tr8iw3d-qf0=/Misc/NIKKOR-Z-Brochure.pdf

Nikon marketing...anyway I think they are skittish about hammering this point since the corollary is that their *existing* lenses don't have sufficient QC. A bit of an industry problem that's convenient to ignore until you've got a solution [editorial: see also PDAF's poor precision].
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faberryman

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1012 on: September 21, 2018, 07:41:30 pm »

I don't know enough about lens manufacture to assess why Z-mount lenses would be susceptible to better quality control than F-mounts lenses.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 08:11:01 pm by faberryman »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1013 on: September 21, 2018, 08:50:57 pm »

I don't know enough about lens manufacture to assess why Z-mount lenses would be susceptible to better quality control than F-mounts lenses.

This aspect is in no way related to the mount.

It is simply the result of investment in higher quality manufacturing equipment , stricter tolerances for parts, stricter QA rejection criteria,... that they have deployed as part of the S line lenses.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 08:54:59 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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HSakols

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1014 on: September 22, 2018, 09:55:33 am »

Quote
Where Nikon has an opportunity to "hit it out of the park" is in consistency and QC.

I'm sure this is just advertising. 

It is the same thing as getting the Leica name put on Panasonic Lenses.  It still is a Panasonic Lens not a Leica lens but you pay for the name.
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gkroeger

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1015 on: September 22, 2018, 10:13:25 am »

Could be... that's why I say "we'll see."  What I do know is that QA for Sony/Zeiss FE lenses is their Achilles heel. Sample to sample alignment problems are common. The G and G-Master series seem to be better.
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jeremyrh

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1016 on: September 22, 2018, 10:22:27 am »

I'm sure this is just advertising. 

It is the same thing as getting the Leica name put on Panasonic Lenses.  It still is a Panasonic Lens not a Leica lens but you pay for the name.

But the S lenses are Nikon lenses with a Nikon badge, no?
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HSakols

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1017 on: September 22, 2018, 10:45:58 am »

Quote
But the S lenses are Nikon lenses with a Nikon badge, no?

I'm just saying that a big part of this is creating a mystique around the god of Nikon. 

Oh, and I'm a sucker.  I plan on purchasing one when they are available.  My Nikon D800 is on Ebay. 
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Rob C

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1018 on: September 22, 2018, 04:56:39 pm »

I don't think that higher priced lenses will do anything to stop lemons leaving the end if the line. It seems to me that it is industry standard now to expect the customer to be the final inspection department. If they return the rotten fruit, cool; if not, then even better. Do all buyers even know what they should be getting from their glass?

Rob

jeremyrh

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Re: Nikon’s new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #1019 on: September 23, 2018, 03:39:15 am »

A "field report" - sort of a puff piece, but some nice pictures...

http://www.squiver.com/blog/nikon-z7-field-report/
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