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Author Topic: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018  (Read 85914 times)

OmerV

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #820 on: August 30, 2018, 01:52:09 pm »

Amazing the reaction this thread has going.  First, apologies for not putting anything on the home page but I can't be everywhere.  I was gone for two-plus weeks running two back to back workshops.  Just about every YouTuber had the bases covered on the launch so not much to say by putting something on the LuLa front page.  I don't usually put something on the home page until I have something in my hands.  Plus, Nikon didn't invite me to their event.  LuLa most likely wasn't on Nikon's favorite list with some of the criticisms towards it over the last few years.  (see the last video for example where Michael has a few words). 

Last night I finally got my hands on the Nikon Z cameras.  I have also ordered on my own dime both cameras and two lenses so we can try them.  While my time was short with them I have to say this regardless of all the negativity I am reading out there that I think we need to give Nikon a chance.  Frankly, I want to shoot with the camera and see how it does.  I want to see what else is coming down the pike.  There is no question Canon will have a system.  So far it's the best-kept secret next to the original iPhone.  Kudos to Canon.  Fuji will certainly announce something too.  And, a lot of predictions about Sony announcements coming.  It is Photokina year and everything will certainly be announced by the time that show opens. Heck, look what Phase One announced the other day.  Who would have ever dreamed of 151 megapixels?

The next 30 days are going to be a lot of fun.  I can say that for certain.  I look forward to having one of the first Nikon production units.  I also look forward to seeing what else is coming our way.  I am left scratching my head a bit on some of Nikon's choices regarding the Z cameras but I'll wait until I have one to say whether these thoughts have any bearing on the user experience.

I look forward to doing an On The Rocks episode where once everything is announced and shipping where we can sit down and talk about all the offerings.  We also plan to have a representative on future episodes from all the major camera companies.  We just finished editing an episode on Olympus.  Look for that in the next week.  We have an episode scheduled with Sony and hopefully once we have products in our hands Canon and Nikon as well as Fuji. 

It's never been a better time to be a photographer.  The choices coming our way are tremendous.  As a photographer, you'll be able to choose the best solution for you and the photography that you enjoy. And, let's not forget that there are also numerous processing and post-processing option available to take our photography further.

So, stay tuned, it's going to get real interesting. 

P.S. A lot of talk about LuLa being a Sony-centric site.  In the recent article where I shared a video Micahel and I did four years ago we made it very clear we were all about innovation.  Sony was and has been one of the major invovators.  Kind of funny how many are comparing what Nikon is offering to the a7 III as the camera to beat.  Let's not forget how many cameras Sony has announced in the last few year.  Each of them improving on the previous model.  Wonder if Nikon and others can keep that pace. 

To make it clear I own Sony, Fuji, Panasonic and Olympus and shoot regularlly with each.  I look forward to adding Nikon and Canon to the list soon. As always we report on here what we like and use.  I can't wait.

Who is "we?" Are you not including paying members? Obviously the response to the new Nikon cameras suggests we also use cameras not on your personal list. Acknowledge this fact, otherwise the question becomes: Is Lula a photography site or...what?

Telecaster

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #821 on: August 30, 2018, 03:26:23 pm »

Who is "we?" Are you not including paying members? Obviously the response to the new Nikon cameras suggests we also use cameras not on your personal list. Acknowledge this fact, otherwise the question becomes: Is Lula a photography site or...what?

This is sub-ridiculous. Kevin & Chris are under no obligation to own any particular camera system. LuLa is a photography site that also covers gear. Sites that do it the other way 'round are plentiful if that's what you're after.

-Dave-
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OmerV

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #822 on: August 30, 2018, 05:04:13 pm »

This is sub-ridiculous. Kevin & Chris are under no obligation to own any particular camera system. LuLa is a photography site that also covers gear. Sites that do it the other way 'round are plentiful if that's what you're after.

-Dave-

 It doesnít matter what Kevin uses nor do I care. Yeah, Kevin can do whatever he likes, but he should then not be surprised when ignoring Canon(his ownership or not is immaterial) that he is perceived as being obsequious towards Sony. 

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #823 on: August 30, 2018, 05:47:42 pm »

Who is "we?"...

ďWeĒ here was obviously used in its pluralis modestiae form. Meaning Kevin.

OmerV

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #824 on: August 30, 2018, 08:10:32 pm »

ďWeĒ here was obviously used in its pluralis modestiae form. Meaning Kevin.

I think he meant management; himself, Chris and others(donít know who the others are,) even though he is probably the main camera reviewer. There may also be select members, not part of management, who contribute camera info in some way.

My use of ďweĒ was meant as being both management, and paid membership who should be regarded as part of what LuLa is.



Kevin Raber

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #825 on: August 30, 2018, 09:08:25 pm »

The we is the LuLa team. Chris, Michael, Debra and myself.  As far as Canon goes I think we made it clear we were waiting for some innovation.  I'm sure like Nikon that Canon will have an interesting offering in mirrorless.  I'll purchase a Canon camera too. And, like I said we will sit down with all of them and discuss the merits of each.  Sp much chitter and chatter right now.  Give Nikon and Canon a chance.  Let's deal all the cards and see what it looks like.  Fun and exciting times.

In the end, though it's about getting the shot, having fun doing so and having the right tools at your disposal.  I have still yet to sell a print where the client asked what I shot it with.  And, I bet dollars to donuts that if I shot the same scene with all the mirrorless cameras available and made the same size prints from them that they all would look pretty much the same and that you wouldn't be able to tell me what camera took which.

I look forward to putting all of these cameras next to each other and talking about them.  I know that the next few weeks will be full of announcements, cameras and otherwise as we get closer to Photokina.  Fun times!
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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #826 on: August 31, 2018, 04:55:53 am »

Who is "we?" Are you not including paying members? Obviously the response to the new Nikon cameras suggests we also use cameras not on your personal list. Acknowledge this fact, otherwise the question becomes: Is Lula a photography site or...what?

I think it is quite simple: if you, as a paying member, feel that the content of the site does not meet your wants/needs/requirements, then stop being a paying member.

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #827 on: August 31, 2018, 06:01:47 am »

http://chsvll.nikon-image.com/products/nikkor/zmount/nikkor_z_35mm_f18s/img/sample/pic_03_l.jpg

I say wow. The shape and quality of oof highlights is the closest thing to perfect I remember seeing. Much better than what my Otus delivers on F mount.

Cheers,
Bernard

eronald

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #828 on: August 31, 2018, 06:46:27 am »

I think it is quite simple: if you, as a paying member, feel that the content of the site does not meet your wants/needs/requirements, then stop being a paying member.

When are the football championship series starting up again? It's time fandom found a place to express its energy.

 :D
Edmund
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eronald

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #829 on: August 31, 2018, 06:48:36 am »

http://chsvll.nikon-image.com/products/nikkor/zmount/nikkor_z_35mm_f18s/img/sample/pic_03_l.jpg

I say wow. The shape and quality of oof highlights is the closest thing to perfect I remember seeing. Much better than what my Otus delivers on F mount.

Cheers,
Bernard

Hey that's a nice pic. Bubbles for bubbles. I wonder if the bubbly wine got drunk by the photographer.

Edmund
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kers

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #830 on: August 31, 2018, 06:56:11 am »

How much i like it that Nikon has a Z6& Z7...

I am afraid a lot of the R&D power will go into the Z lineup and lens development . obviously.
The dslr F-mount lenses will get less attention...
for instance - a good 50mm is now only available in Z-mount.
New PCE lenses will be even further away. A new 24mmPCE is much needed.
There is no new ultra wide fixed focal lens since...
etc.



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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #831 on: August 31, 2018, 08:06:30 am »

...I am afraid a lot of the R&D power will go into the Z lineup and lens development . obviously.
The dslr F-mount lenses will get less attention...
for instance - a good 50mm is now only available in Z-mount.
New PCE lenses will be even further away. A new 24mmPCE is much needed.
There is no new ultra wide fixed focal lens since...
etc.

Obviously. Mirror is dead, just doesnít know it yet.

Mirror is, evolutionary, a remnant of the distant past, like appendix. There is no reason for its continued existence, now that there are other ways to provide a view through the lens.

OmerV

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #832 on: August 31, 2018, 09:00:24 am »

Obviously. Mirror is dead, just doesnít know it yet.

Mirror is, evolutionary, a remnant of the distant past, like appendix. There is no reason for its continued existence, now that there are other ways to provide a view through the lens.

Not quite yet, Slobodan. Mirrorless cameras have a glaring problem; power-on lag when first being turned on and when waking from power save/sleep mode. Sure, when doing still life, in any of its variants, or landscape, waiting for the camera to power up is a non-issue. But for sports, journalism, wildlife, and street, immediacy or lack of, may decide whether a photo is made or not.

For all the praise Sony gets for being innovative, it has yet to solve that problem in all the E mount cameras, including the much ballyhooed A9.  Yeah, keeping a mirrorless camera on continuously will work if heat is dissipated well, and carrying a bag full of batteries.

Still, with Nikon and Canon now in the game, ďinnovationĒ may actually mean something. That is if the whole camera industry isnít put to shame by the smartphone industry.

chez

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #833 on: August 31, 2018, 09:50:37 am »

Not quite yet, Slobodan. Mirrorless cameras have a glaring problem; power-on lag when first being turned on and when waking from power save/sleep mode. Sure, when doing still life, in any of its variants, or landscape, waiting for the camera to power up is a non-issue. But for sports, journalism, wildlife, and street, immediacy or lack of, may decide whether a photo is made or not.

For all the praise Sony gets for being innovative, it has yet to solve that problem in all the E mount cameras, including the much ballyhooed A9.  Yeah, keeping a mirrorless camera on continuously will work if heat is dissipated well, and carrying a bag full of batteries.

Still, with Nikon and Canon now in the game, ďinnovationĒ may actually mean something. That is if the whole camera industry isnít put to shame by the smartphone industry.

But the manufactures really don't care about that. They want to sell equipment and all the hype regarding mirrorless will sell equipment and they will release new lenses for mirrorless as that is what will sell. Just look at Bernard...he's already opened up his wallet and is heading to the store.  :D
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Chris Livsey

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #834 on: August 31, 2018, 10:03:45 am »

Obviously. Mirror is dead, just doesnít know it yet.
 There is no reason for its continued existence, now that there are other ways to provide a view through the lens.

And those ways cost much less to manufacture (more automation) and adjust to tolerance whilst allowing the retail price to remain at a point to realise a reassuringly high return to the maker.

BTW has no one mentioned Nikon's recent track record in delivering new cameras with issues or are we all optimistic that this time it will be different?
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #835 on: August 31, 2018, 10:18:35 am »

Bernard I have a question. You have a theory that Nikon is getting out of low end cameras because cell phones are going to kill this off and there is no future in it.  I read yesterday that Nikon has announced a very entry level DSLR D3500.

Does that not indicate that Nikon is taking a different approach to what you anticipated? Also what of all the people saying DSLR is over? Clearly Nikon doesnít think so.
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shadowblade

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #836 on: August 31, 2018, 11:23:29 am »

Not quite yet, Slobodan. Mirrorless cameras have a glaring problem; power-on lag when first being turned on and when waking from power save/sleep mode. Sure, when doing still life, in any of its variants, or landscape, waiting for the camera to power up is a non-issue. But for sports, journalism, wildlife, and street, immediacy or lack of, may decide whether a photo is made or not.

For all the praise Sony gets for being innovative, it has yet to solve that problem in all the E mount cameras, including the much ballyhooed A9.  Yeah, keeping a mirrorless camera on continuously will work if heat is dissipated well, and carrying a bag full of batteries.

Still, with Nikon and Canon now in the game, ďinnovationĒ may actually mean something. That is if the whole camera industry isnít put to shame by the smartphone industry.

It takes longer to lift the A9/A7r3 to the eye than it does for the camera to turn on. Sports proceed in predictable ways - you know when an athlete is running down the track a certain way or is running in to kick a ball - and fast-moving wildlife also moves in predictable directions. Shooting them is not likr skeet shooting. Although what you are describing is even worse than skeet shooting - not only do you not know where the subjects will be coming from, but you also don't seem to know whether they'll be coming in five seconds' time or twenty minutes. If the time needed for an A9 or A7r3 to start up affects your ability to get the shot for sports or wildlife, the problem isn't with the camera - you just don't know your subject well enough. Even if the camera were on full-time, you'd still need to bring it to eye level and point it in the right direction, which takes much longer than turning it on.
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kers

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #837 on: August 31, 2018, 11:42:11 am »

Bernard I have a question. You have a theory that Nikon is getting out of low end cameras because cell phones are going to kill this off and there is no future in it.  I read yesterday that Nikon has announced a very entry level DSLR D3500.

Does that not indicate that Nikon is taking a different approach to what you anticipated? Also what of all the people saying DSLR is over? Clearly Nikon doesnít think so.

Thom Hogan has some answers...
http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/nikon-2018-news/august-2018-nikon-news/whats-up-with-dx-redux.html
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OmerV

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #838 on: August 31, 2018, 02:06:31 pm »

It takes longer to lift the A9/A7r3 to the eye than it does for the camera to turn on. Sports proceed in predictable ways - you know when an athlete is running down the track a certain way or is running in to kick a ball - and fast-moving wildlife also moves in predictable directions. Shooting them is not likr skeet shooting. Although what you are describing is even worse than skeet shooting - not only do you not know where the subjects will be coming from, but you also don't seem to know whether they'll be coming in five seconds' time or twenty minutes. If the time needed for an A9 or A7r3 to start up affects your ability to get the shot for sports or wildlife, the problem isn't with the camera - you just don't know your subject well enough. Even if the camera were on full-time, you'd still need to bring it to eye level and point it in the right direction, which takes much longer than turning it on.

I disagree, but then maybe Iím quicker at lifting my camera. And yes, Iíve tried to get the camera on by first tapping the shutter to wake it from power-save mode, and though it works sometimes(if thereís no rush,) inevitably I forget. I have put my Sony up to my eye only to see a black EVF(I donít use lens caps  :D)

Yes, action can be predictable but there are moments that require immediate reaction and response. I want a camera that wonít take my attention while concentrating on photography.

bcooter

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Re: Nikonís new mirrorless system, coming in ... late September 2018
« Reply #839 on: August 31, 2018, 02:33:03 pm »



Amazing the reaction this thread has going.  snipÖ.

I have also ordered on my own dime both cameras and two lenses so we can try them.  While my time was short with them I have to say this regardless of all the negativity I am reading out there that I think we need to give Nikon a chance.  Frankly, I want to shoot with the camera and see how it does. 
Thatís great you ordered it to test it with your style of photography, which is way different than mine, not that one i right or wrong, just different genres, different end results.   

Honestly I was a little excited about the announcement of the new Nikons because Nikon was way behind in the motion capture race compared to others and thought ah-hah Nikon now has a chance to blow by them,  though we all know that most new evf cameras come in needing firmware updates, then the next two, three versions address the main issues of the original, in specific Sony.

Though my needs are different and Iíd probably use one of these Nikons 95% of the time shooting motion footage. 

snipÖ.

P.S. A lot of talk about LuLa being a Sony-centric site.  In the recent article where I shared a video Micahel and I did four years ago we made it very clear we were all about innovation.  Sony was and has been one of the major invovators.  snipÖÖ

I see this less of a Sony centric forum as I do a new equipment forum.   I think itís too early to diss Nikon, or any new camera at announcement, as 1. Everyone shoots in a different genre and style and 2. Sony seems to come out with new cameras which seem monthly so it gets a lot of attention.    Given that there does seem to be a lot of different information based in stills on frame rates, 14 vs. 12 bit etc. etc.

But itís all in the eye of the beholder.   22,000 views on this thread and growing tells me that Nikon continues to have popularity among the girls and guys that like talking about cameras and 2. As this is a gear site there is always a lot of talk about C vs. N. vs. P  vs. F vs. the other P vs. O, etc. etc.

I guess Iím seeing it different.   I wouldnít care if a camera or gear was made by Heinz Beans if it 1. did something I couldnít live without, or 2. didnít stop me from doing what I want to do.

I do know this Kevin is right, put it in your hands and shoot what you shoot.   Now, Iíd rather wait and rent, then buy, because Iíve only bought two cameras in my career that I didnít test and they didnít do what I needed, (the S brand).

I went from the reviews and those cameras didnít work for me.   Actually the cameras that made me the most (and still do) weíre my ancient (in electro land) which everyone said they didnít like weíre my R1s oh yea and my C branded cameras.   Thework, they still produce what I need and they produce a look I prefer from my Scarlet and Epic for motion, everything else for stills. 

I am now going to buy two new motion cameras on Netflix approved site.   Gotta find the time to really test them, but I can promise you I won't spend $65,000 on one camera, it's gotta be two which is 12.5k.

So Iíd suggest rent before you buy, produce imagery that you actually want to produce (hopefully better than expected) and then youíll know.

IMO

BC

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