Pages: 1 ... 12 13 [14] 15   Go Down

Author Topic: P1 price list... Will they insist on it?  (Read 65997 times)

Theodoros

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2454
Re: P1 price list... Will they insist on it?
« Reply #260 on: April 23, 2016, 07:03:21 am »

As I said earlier, for people to discuss images, they have first to agree on what photo-graphy is...  I've many times seen nice pictures been presented, but I'm not sure at all they are photo-graphs too...

Actually (as I think it's about time to return back in the subject), it is important to know that David Bailey wasn't promoting Olympus (at the days) only because he made the contract to promote the firm, but he actually did really like it a lot (because of it being more portable) than the rest of the DSLRs... The matter of portability was the same with other famous photographers too and partly the reason why Leica m became so successful among them... Hence I think that Perry Oosting is quite right when he insists that Hasselblad has to stick with the photographic tradition and additionally introduce a portable, entry level, Leica S MF competitor... Obviously there is a new Hasselblad mount coming within the year that will be dedicated on a smaller image area (but still MF) like Leica S is...
Logged

eronald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6642
    • My gallery on Instagram
Re: P1 price list... Will they insist on it?
« Reply #261 on: April 23, 2016, 07:11:57 am »

We did do a print exchange at one point.

Problem is a lot of the guys here think they are "professional" so they are afraid to "give something away for free", and don't want to participate. I don't know why, because I was selling my prints quite well, at one time, and exchanging your own work for someone els's is not dishonourable - it's how the world used to work before hedge funds were invented.

If anyone is interested in doing a new print exchange ...

Edmund


I know what you're saying but just because back then forums didn't exist and it wasn't mentioned in the documentary that does NOT mean photographers weren't interested in their gear or discussing it at length.
Black and white or color and which film exactly? Small format or large format or large format? Hasselblad or Rollei? I'm pretty sure those questions were still asked but only in smaller groups and not in international forums like this. CCD vs CMOS is quite reminiscent of the slide film vs colour negative discussion (and both CCD and slide film are in decline but still very usable).
Another aspect that many people tend to forget it that back then a lot of photographers didn't develop their photos themselves, especially not when they were high volume fashion photographers, so they simply didn't care. H.C. Bresson was no fashion photographer but he didn't develop or edit his own photos, he had other do that and those people were often shocked by the horrible negatives he provided and worked hours to get a usable print (if that was possible).

These days you're forced to do just about everything yourself if you're a small to medium sized fish in the photography world - and if you're a big fish you can afford to have someone else edit your RAWs - but even then that doesn't mean that you can't or won't be concerned with your equipment. Annie Leibovitz for example has used just about every brand and type of camera and still switches  a lot.

The only thing I noticed about this forum is that people don't really discuss images - at least not in the Medium/Large Format section, that's why I stopped posting them here, it's absolutely useless and there are better forums for that. After all LL was never really focused on discussing images but more interested in reviewing and presenting gear - and that shows in its forum.
Logged
If you appreciate my blog posts help me by following on https://instagram.com/edmundronald

Christoph B.

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 341
Re: P1 price list... Will they insist on it?
« Reply #262 on: April 23, 2016, 07:59:18 am »

We did do a print exchange at one point.

Problem is a lot of the guys here think they are "professional" so they are afraid to "give something away for free", and don't want to participate. I don't know why, because I was selling my prints quite well, at one time, and exchanging your own work for someone els's is not dishonourable - it's how the world used to work before hedge funds were invented.

If anyone is interested in doing a new print exchange ...

Edmund

A print exchange is a nice idea but (!) I'm talking about constructive criticism from a larger group. Meaning that a lot of people get to enter a discussion instead of 'just' two people.

Logged

eronald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6642
    • My gallery on Instagram
Re: P1 price list... Will they insist on it?
« Reply #263 on: April 23, 2016, 08:13:08 am »

A print exchange is a nice idea but (!) I'm talking about constructive criticism from a larger group. Meaning that a lot of people get to enter a discussion instead of 'just' two people.

I think we simply swapped prints between about ten of us members. One of the forum members received multiples from each participant, made up packs with one of each print, and sent them out. This very generous individual did not request money for shipping (!).

Of note, I think I qualify as a master printer, on inkjet, I'm one of the rare people who do their own profiles and then retouch directly in the printer gamut to optimise colors, so my prints are sometimes very different from what one would get by just giving a file to a lab to run off.  I expect some other people here have a similar dedication to the print, so exchanging prints is different from just showing files. 

And yes - I do understand such a printing workflow is not portable and suitable for commercial jobs where colors need to match from print to print in a batch, but when you sell single art prints you aren't doing commercial jobs and so you're not bound to the conventional rules of color management. And yes, as an ex-member of the ICC I do know what color management means. 

Edmund
« Last Edit: April 23, 2016, 08:17:26 am by eronald »
Logged
If you appreciate my blog posts help me by following on https://instagram.com/edmundronald

Theodoros

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2454
Re: P1 price list... Will they insist on it?
« Reply #264 on: April 23, 2016, 12:46:36 pm »

I think we simply swapped prints between about ten of us members. One of the forum members received multiples from each participant, made up packs with one of each print, and sent them out. This very generous individual did not request money for shipping (!).

Of note, I think I qualify as a master printer, on inkjet, I'm one of the rare people who do their own profiles and then retouch directly in the printer gamut to optimise colors, so my prints are sometimes very different from what one would get by just giving a file to a lab to run off.  I expect some other people here have a similar dedication to the print, so exchanging prints is different from just showing files. 

And yes - I do understand such a printing workflow is not portable and suitable for commercial jobs where colors need to match from print to print in a batch, but when you sell single art prints you aren't doing commercial jobs and so you're not bound to the conventional rules of color management. And yes, as an ex-member of the ICC I do know what color management means. 

Edmund

Both print exchanging and the technical part (for all avoiding artefacts, maximising optical resolution and achieving colour accuracy) of printing, are  very interesting subjects (master of printing is IMO part of the photographic process of visualisation)... but... don't you friends think that it should be  part of a different conversation? 

I think it hasn't much to do with P1 pricing policies, nor with the way that the  new Hasselblad products affect the MF camera market appeal... does it?
Logged

Christopher

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1499
    • http://www.hauser-photoart.com
Re: P1 price list... Will they insist on it?
« Reply #265 on: April 23, 2016, 01:34:01 pm »

Well, Edmund's idea is great and has probably more todo with the problem we are having then your numer x post on how Phase One is doomed. We got that and don't really need to continue on that path.

On a site note perhaps we should start a new topic and let Theo discuss pricing, the doom of phase one and his soon coming new wonder SL camera.


Christopher Hauser
ch@chauser.eu
Logged
Christopher Hauser
[email=chris@hauser-p

eronald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6642
    • My gallery on Instagram
Re: P1 price list... Will they insist on it?
« Reply #266 on: April 23, 2016, 06:12:20 pm »

Well, Edmund's idea is great and has probably more todo with the problem we are having then your numer x post on how Phase One is doomed. We got that and don't really need to continue on that path.

On a site note perhaps we should start a new topic and let Theo discuss pricing, the doom of phase one and his soon coming new wonder SL camera.


Christopher Hauser
ch@chauser.eu

Like in music, one can have several voices doing their thing, and weaving in and out.

Edmund
Logged
If you appreciate my blog posts help me by following on https://instagram.com/edmundronald

Theodoros

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2454
Re: P1 price list... Will they insist on it?
« Reply #267 on: April 28, 2016, 09:30:45 am »

Since there is a continuation of the conversation going on here: http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=110135.0, & here: http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=110154.0 I don't mind at all the insist of some to divert this thread (deliberately) as to cease it...  ;)

So... there was an earthquake that affected P1 after all...  ;)
Logged

Paul2660

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4067
    • Photos of Arkansas
Re: P1 price list... Will they insist on it?
« Reply #268 on: April 28, 2016, 09:39:16 am »

Since there is a continuation of the conversation going on here: http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=110135.0, & here: http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=110154.0 I don't mind at all the insist of some to divert this thread (deliberately) as to cease it...  ;)

So... there was an earthquake that affected P1 after all...  ;)

And, Nikon, Sony, Pentax, Hasselblad ............. the list is much longer than P1.

Paul C
Logged
Paul Caldwell
Little Rock, Arkansas U.S.
www.photosofarkansas.com

eronald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6642
    • My gallery on Instagram
Re: P1 price list... Will they insist on it?
« Reply #269 on: April 28, 2016, 09:45:49 am »

And, Nikon, Sony, Pentax, Hasselblad ............. the list is much longer than P1.

Paul C


I am sorry that people in Kysushu got hit by an earthquake, but when it comes to new cameras I believe we can all survive for another 6 months on what we already own.

It used to be that every semiconductor manufacturer would license a second source - this rule has now been broken and we see the consequences.

Edmund
Logged
If you appreciate my blog posts help me by following on https://instagram.com/edmundronald

Paul2660

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4067
    • Photos of Arkansas
Re: P1 price list... Will they insist on it?
« Reply #270 on: April 28, 2016, 09:55:21 am »

Similar to the issues that happened during the last one, when Western Digital was no longer able to ship many of their hard drives, for months.  It also had some effect on the Nikon product line as I remember.

Paul C
Logged
Paul Caldwell
Little Rock, Arkansas U.S.
www.photosofarkansas.com

Theodoros

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2454
Re: P1 price list... Will they insist on it?
« Reply #271 on: April 28, 2016, 10:53:36 am »

Similar to the issues that happened during the last one, when Western Digital was no longer able to ship many of their hard drives, for months.  It also had some effect on the Nikon product line as I remember.

Paul C


What I don't understand, is why P1 made an announcement as if the earthquake affects the IQ 380 only... and not the Credo 50, the IQ-150, the IQ-250, the IQ-350 at all...  and then there is that part of the announcement that tries to promote the "other FF sensor backs" from Phase One instead.... As I said in another discussion, it will be interesting to see if Hasselblad will make a similar announcement for the H6D-100 or not....
Logged

Paul2660

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4067
    • Photos of Arkansas
Re: P1 price list... Will they insist on it?
« Reply #272 on: April 28, 2016, 12:35:41 pm »

I agree the 50mp CMOS might also be affected. However odds are there are more of these chips in the current pipeline as the chip has been around since 2012.

From the day of announcement the delivery of the P1 100MP back has been constrained. By far the worst I have seen since my first Phase One purchase in 2008.

Now the delivery seems like it will be more in the 5 to 6 month lag for new orders based on the anno by Sony.

I the post from CI it seems like they are willing to work towards a temp solution and or push P1 to figure out something for an interim solution.  At least that how I read that.

Paul C
Logged
Paul Caldwell
Little Rock, Arkansas U.S.
www.photosofarkansas.com

Theodoros

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2454
Re: P1 price list... Will they insist on it?
« Reply #273 on: April 28, 2016, 01:50:52 pm »

...Or it can be a good excuse as to "get rid" of the FF CCD backs that are with low demand...  ;) As I said before, it all depends on if Hasselblad will come up with a similar announcement for the H6D-100... If they do, then there is some reasoning to back up P1's statement... If they don't, it means that it is a new "marketing trick" from P1's side as to promote "difficult" products... One has to admit that they've been very good with marketing up to now as to find people that "bite"... My guess would be that there will be no similar announcement from Hasselblad about the H6D-100 and that they will proceed with deliveries in June as it is scheduled... I hope (honestly) I'm wrong...
Logged

Christopher

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1499
    • http://www.hauser-photoart.com
Re: P1 price list... Will they insist on it?
« Reply #274 on: April 28, 2016, 05:51:09 pm »

I'm sure in your world this really real earthquake did not actually happen and it's all only a P1 marketing...  Please I can't hear that bs any more.

Hasselblad should better be able to deliver the first 100MP on time as they had PLENTY of time to stock palm a good amount.

We could speculate on, if hassi has to push back they aren't even rdy ;)


Christopher Hauser
ch@chauser.eu
Logged
Christopher Hauser
[email=chris@hauser-p

Doug Peterson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4210
    • http://www.doug-peterson.com
Re: P1 price list... Will they insist on it?
« Reply #275 on: April 28, 2016, 06:37:21 pm »

From the day of announcement the delivery of the P1 100MP back has been constrained. By far the worst I have seen since my first Phase One purchase in 2008.

The unfortunate side effect of having the most successful product launch in company history. The earthquake will not help this.

Doug Peterson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4210
    • http://www.doug-peterson.com
Re: P1 price list... Will they insist on it?
« Reply #276 on: April 28, 2016, 06:43:16 pm »

Or it can be a good excuse as to "get rid" of the FF CCD backs that are with low demand...

Phase One's full frame CCD backs are still selling well. They offer a large sensor, high resolution, and excellent interface for a price lower than the IQ3 100mp. For those who do not need high ISO or live view they are excellent options.

The fact Phase One has several current generation CCD backs (with sensors that are not made by Sony) will, I think, be quite a competitive boon going into a period where availability of Sony CMOS sensors will be very strained.

Steve Hendrix

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1662
    • http://www.captureintegration.com/
Re: P1 price list... Will they insist on it?
« Reply #277 on: April 28, 2016, 07:50:58 pm »

...Or it can be a good excuse as to "get rid" of the FF CCD backs that are with low demand...  ;) As I said before, it all depends on if Hasselblad will come up with a similar announcement for the H6D-100... If they do, then there is some reasoning to back up P1's statement... If they don't, it means that it is a new "marketing trick" from P1's side as to promote "difficult" products... One has to admit that they've been very good with marketing up to now as to find people that "bite"... My guess would be that there will be no similar announcement from Hasselblad about the H6D-100 and that they will proceed with deliveries in June as it is scheduled... I hope (honestly) I'm wrong...


Theo -

Let me just make sure I'm understanding you.

You're saying that Phase One is using an environmental disaster that has killed over 50 people and left hundreds of thousands stranded in evacuation centers to lie about delivery of their 100mp sensor, as a strategy for reducing ccd inventory?

This is what you are saying?


Steve Hendrix/ CI
Logged
Steve Hendrix • 404-543-8475 www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Alpa | Cambo | Sinar | Arca Swiss

eronald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6642
    • My gallery on Instagram
Re: P1 price list... Will they insist on it?
« Reply #278 on: April 28, 2016, 08:14:27 pm »

Phase One's full frame CCD backs are still selling well. They offer a large sensor, high resolution, and excellent interface for a price lower than the IQ3 100mp. For those who do not need high ISO or live view they are excellent options.

The fact Phase One has several current generation CCD backs (with sensors that are not made by Sony) will, I think, be quite a competitive boon going into a period where availability of Sony CMOS sensors will be very strained.


emmm, are you ready to go on the record and state that there is still a running CCD fab somewhere for these CCD sensors?

Edmund
Logged
If you appreciate my blog posts help me by following on https://instagram.com/edmundronald

Theodoros

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2454
Re: P1 price list... Will they insist on it?
« Reply #279 on: April 28, 2016, 08:14:57 pm »

Doug, no matter how good the sales of P1 FF backs are, the production of sensors is limited with respect to other, smaller size imaging sensors... I'm sure that Sony can make the year's needs for that market in nearly no time after the damages have been fully restored (if they haven't done it already back in January).... Companies in Japan have learned to live with Erthquake presence and they build their business plans accordingly as to cope with even the most extreme cases (like now). So... It remains to be seen if Hassy will make a similar announcement for delay in production of the H6D-100... If they don't and they keep with the timing they have announced before the happening, it would mean that P1 can do the same... OTOH, I have a question for you...

"Why you (meaning P1 dealers) refer to IQ3-100 only and not the other Sony sensor products from Leaf or P1?"  Aren't the 50mp Sony sensor products equally (in proportion - which should be much larger) affected by the disaster in Japan? 

EDIT: Obvioulsly I made a mistake and called the IQ 3-100 an ...IQ-380 (correct it now)
« Last Edit: April 28, 2016, 08:34:19 pm by Theodoros »
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 12 13 [14] 15   Go Up