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Author Topic: P1 price list... Will they insist on it?  (Read 59463 times)

Paul2660

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Re: P1 price list... Will they insist on it?
« Reply #280 on: April 28, 2016, 08:19:59 pm »

IQ380 is CCD, it would be the IQ100 or IQ3100, which ever as it's shown both ways in various articles and write ups.

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Steve Hendrix

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Re: P1 price list... Will they insist on it?
« Reply #281 on: April 28, 2016, 08:22:06 pm »

Doug, no matter how good the sales of P1 FF backs are, the production of sensors is limited with respect to other, smaller size imaging sensors... I'm sure that Sony can make the year's needs for that market in nearly no time after the damages have been fully restored (if they haven't done it already back in January).... Companies in Japan have learned to live with Erthquake presence and they build their business plans accordingly as to cope with even the most extreme cases (like now). So... It remains to be seen if Hassy will make a similar announcement for delay in production of the H6D-100... If they don't and they keep with the timing they have announced before the happening, it would mean that P1 can do the same... OTOH, I have a question for you...

"Why you (meaning P1 dealers) refer to IQ-380 only and not the other Sony sensor products from Leaf or P1?"  Aren't the 50mp Sony sensor products equally (in proportion - which should be much larger) affected by the disaster in Japan?


We stated that "all Sony sensor products are affected".

What are you referring to with regard to IQ380 and no mention of 50mp?


Steve Hendrix/CI
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Theodoros

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Re: P1 price list... Will they insist on it?
« Reply #282 on: April 28, 2016, 08:28:06 pm »


We stated that "all Sony sensor products are affected".

What are you referring to with regard to IQ380 and no mention of 50mp?


Steve Hendrix/CI

Well... aren't there going to be delays on Sony sensor product deliveries from Leaf or P1? I saw no reference on this... Only for the IQ-3-100...

EDIT: Obvioulsly I made a mistake and called the IQ 3-100 an ...IQ-380.... I'm sure you understood what I mean though...
« Last Edit: April 28, 2016, 08:32:55 pm by Theodoros »
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Theodoros

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Re: P1 price list... Will they insist on it?
« Reply #283 on: April 28, 2016, 08:40:30 pm »


emmm, are you ready to go on the record and state that there is still a running CCD fab somewhere for these CCD sensors?

Edmund

Isn't there? ...you surprise me!  ;D Perhaps P1 dealers are referring to refurb & S/H sales of these backs as "still going strong"...  ;)
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Steve Hendrix

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Re: P1 price list... Will they insist on it?
« Reply #284 on: April 28, 2016, 08:43:48 pm »

Well... aren't there going to be delays on Sony sensor product deliveries from Leaf or P1? I saw no reference on this... Only for the IQ-3-100...

EDIT: Obvioulsly I made a mistake and called the IQ 3-100 an ...IQ-380.... I'm sure you understood what I mean though...


Theo - please re-read our statement regarding the situation, where we inform that "This affects all manufacturers who utilize Sony sensors.", which would include of course, Leaf, Phase One, Hasselblad, both 50 and 100 megapixels.

https://captureintegration.com/sony-pauses-cmos-sensor-operation/


Steve Hendrix/CI
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Theodoros

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Re: P1 price list... Will they insist on it?
« Reply #285 on: April 28, 2016, 09:11:10 pm »


Theo - please re-read our statement regarding the situation, where we inform that "This affects all manufacturers who utilize Sony sensors.", which would include of course, Leaf, Phase One, Hasselblad, both 50 and 100 megapixels.

https://captureintegration.com/sony-pauses-cmos-sensor-operation/


Steve Hendrix/CI

I've read it many times already Steve, it refers to the IQ-100 back only stating a 4-5 months delay for delivery... There is no comment in it what so ever on how the delivery of 50mp backs is affected... Is there going to be a 4-5 months delay for the 50mp backs too then? ...is that what you are saying?  All I can conclude in the CI statement's end is that you can "cover" the customers that are in urgent need to have their IQ-100 delivered, by offering them S/H or refurbished CCD sensor FF backs instead... There is nothing there (no information or solution proposed) for the orders of 50mp sensors from P1/Leaf, or for the Hasselblad orders of CMos sensors....

The later (about the Hasselblad orders) is rather surprising, because as far as I know, Hasselblad orders are over the roof here in Europe... Is it different with CI customers in the US?
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Steve Hendrix

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Re: P1 price list... Will they insist on it?
« Reply #286 on: April 28, 2016, 09:52:13 pm »

I've read it many times already Steve, it refers to the IQ-100 back only stating a 4-5 months delay for delivery... There is no comment in it what so ever on how the delivery of 50mp backs is affected... Is there going to be a 4-5 months delay for the 50mp backs too then? ...is that what you are saying?  All I can conclude in the CI statement's end is that you can "cover" the customers that are in urgent need to have their IQ-100 delivered, by offering them S/H or refurbished CCD sensor FF backs instead... There is nothing there (no information or solution proposed) for the orders of 50mp sensors from P1/Leaf, or for the Hasselblad orders of CMos sensors....

The later (about the Hasselblad orders) is rather surprising, because as far as I know, Hasselblad orders are over the roof here in Europe... Is it different with CI customers in the US?


Theo -

We emphasized the 100mp product only because there already existed a backorder situation prior to the earthquake. But we also did state that this affects all manufacturers who utilize Sony sensors, (naturally).

If it is not clearly written, I apologize. But I hope my explanation resolves any confusion for you.



Steve Hendrix/CI
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eronald

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Re: P1 price list... Will they insist on it?
« Reply #287 on: April 28, 2016, 10:16:31 pm »


Theo - please re-read our statement regarding the situation, where we inform that "This affects all manufacturers who utilize Sony sensors.", which would include of course, Leaf, Phase One, Hasselblad, both 50 and 100 megapixels.

https://captureintegration.com/sony-pauses-cmos-sensor-operation/


Steve Hendrix/CI

Sony had major financial issues in the last year die to a production issue; now they get bitten again. I wonder whether at some point they won't set up a redundant manufacturing subsidiary.

Of interest as well whether the iPhone release will be affected by this - we are talking about hundreds of millions of sensors there.

Edmund
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Theodoros

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Re: P1 price list... Will they insist on it?
« Reply #288 on: April 29, 2016, 07:28:13 am »

Yes, it is millions of sensors which also means that the number of MF FF sensors are "a water drop in the Ocean" when compared... Further more, the 44x33 number of sensors doesn't change the "drop in the Ocean" magnitude either... The later reports from Sony, predict that production will go back to full capacity by the end of May (that is in four weeks time). As usual with similar situations in the past, the product delays that are affected more are the "massive" production ones (meaning the smaller the sensor, the more it is affected), simply because partial recovery of production can't satisfy the product demand.

It is therefore logical to conclude that the maker gives priority as to fully recover the production of the smaller demand first (simply because the supply issues are far easier to solve) and then works his way up as to recover production for the customers that need massive supplies. It is common practice in industry to first eliminate the number of supply problems as to have less customers with a production problem and then concentrate to the major customers by putting all your power into satisfy them the best you can. The less problems a producer may have to deal with, the better he can solve them...

I guess then, the 100Mp MF Sony sensor is the smallest problem out of all for Sony to solve and perhaps the 33x44 sensor is the next smallest one... IMO, MF sensor supplies from Sony will hardly be affected at all and if they do, the issue will be solved in a few weeks time... No big deal for MF then as for P1 customers to rush and consume all the (out of production) CCD sensors that are in stock, if the issue was that huge, Hasselblad that hardly sells any CCD sensor at all (and is almost entirely depended on Sony for production) should have ceased production by now...
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Steve Hendrix

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Re: P1 price list... Will they insist on it?
« Reply #289 on: April 29, 2016, 05:11:55 pm »

Yes, it is millions of sensors which also means that the number of MF FF sensors are "a water drop in the Ocean" when compared... Further more, the 44x33 number of sensors doesn't change the "drop in the Ocean" magnitude either... The later reports from Sony, predict that production will go back to full capacity by the end of May (that is in four weeks time). As usual with similar situations in the past, the product delays that are affected more are the "massive" production ones (meaning the smaller the sensor, the more it is affected), simply because partial recovery of production can't satisfy the product demand.

It is therefore logical to conclude that the maker gives priority as to fully recover the production of the smaller demand first (simply because the supply issues are far easier to solve) and then works his way up as to recover production for the customers that need massive supplies. It is common practice in industry to first eliminate the number of supply problems as to have less customers with a production problem and then concentrate to the major customers by putting all your power into satisfy them the best you can. The less problems a producer may have to deal with, the better he can solve them...

I guess then, the 100Mp MF Sony sensor is the smallest problem out of all for Sony to solve and perhaps the 33x44 sensor is the next smallest one... IMO, MF sensor supplies from Sony will hardly be affected at all and if they do, the issue will be solved in a few weeks time... No big deal for MF then as for P1 customers to rush and consume all the (out of production) CCD sensors that are in stock, if the issue was that huge, Hasselblad that hardly sells any CCD sensor at all (and is almost entirely depended on Sony for production) should have ceased production by now...


Theo -

I hope that your opinion regarding the effect on MF Sensor supplies turns out to be correct.

The fact is that it's an unpredictable and fluid situation that can change. We've presented a potential worse case scenario in order to not sell false optimism (or keeping it real, as one might say). But certainly our hopes are that the production recovery process will begin sooner rather than later.


Steve Hendrix/CI
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eronald

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Re: P1 price list... Will they insist on it?
« Reply #290 on: April 29, 2016, 08:11:11 pm »


I guess then, the 100Mp MF Sony sensor is the smallest problem out of all for Sony to solve and perhaps the 33x44 sensor is the next smallest one...


At least the contracts for general photographic use of these sensors, yes, they will be the lowest priority. They may also be some of the hardest problems they face  because these sensors can only be manufactured on a line with a very high yield.

Edmund
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Theodoros

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Re: P1 price list... Will they insist on it?
« Reply #291 on: April 30, 2016, 09:40:58 am »


At least the contracts for general photographic use of these sensors, yes, they will be the lowest priority. They may also be some of the hardest problems they face  because these sensors can only be manufactured on a line with a very high yield.

Edmund

Yes, but don't forget that the entire MF market depends on them... They are the only sensor supplier left (at the moment) for the entire market... remember? ...and we are talking about what? ...20-30 sensors (both 50 & 100mp) per day of production/sales for all Pentax, Hassy & P1/Leaf?

EDIT: The water drop in the Ocean - if not in all Oceans and seas included - I stated earlier...
« Last Edit: April 30, 2016, 10:54:02 am by Theodoros »
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