P1 price list... Will they insist on it?

[Theodoros]

Only that this time there are no predictions... There's an interview of the CEO... https://www.ephotozine.com/article/perry-oosting-on-the-hasselblad-h6d-29166

And then there is a specific answer (from a CEO), to a specific question... Here is the exact question and the exact answer:

Q:  You spoke about broadening the appeal of Hasselblad and as the new H6D product sits at the top of the market, what will you do to broaden the appeal and do you plan to release something lower down in the market?
A: What would fit is something aimed at the prosumer - which we see as the dedicated amateur, passionate enthusiast, semi-professional etc. - already shooting with a DSLR. Part of this audience already buys into Leica and our first step would be to look at this area, prices and portability. The new H6Ds we are launching has the best in class ergonomics in terms of handling but they aren't the most portable.

[Theodoros]

And then...

Q: You have other companies such as Pentax in the medium format market, with the 645Z, that are quite competitively priced and quite portable for a medium format camera. Is this area something that Hasselblad will be looking at?

A: Portability will be key but how and which way it will be portable is yet to be announced. It's better to scream about something when you have something to say and our ambition towards that direction is there. The good thing is that more people will come to medium format and people are much more interested in quality.

People are interested in upgrading to medium format because they want to take their photography to the next level. If we can widen the usage, it will be a more interesting space.

[Theodoros]

I guess there are still people that read mirrorless to where he says DSLR, they read "whatever", where he says "Leica", they read "other format", where he says "medium format" and they read "EVF" when he clearly speaks (on the LuLa interview) about the superiority of "huge OVF" and the relations of it with medium format and Hassy's tradition... Go figure... 

[eronald]

You mean the H6D-100c and Pentax 645z? These "predictions" was pretty easy at the time.

Generally speaking this forum and forums like it have a dismal record at predicting future products for two simple reasons:

• people like to predict what they would like, not what would bring revenue to the manufacturer
• people on this forum and forums like it are not the main market as they think they are.

I don't see what that has to do with prediction.

Say -hypothetically- someone planned to launch a mirrorless product based on a back-thinned MF sensor, gaining compacity with a small flange distance and symmetric-wide lens designs. Now the only plant making these sensors may be in Kyushu, which is what the big southmost island of Japan is called. Kyushu is a shambles, there will be no sensors made there for 9 months.  Welcome to the wonderful world of just-in-time.  I'm not saying this is the prediction here, I'm saying that the person who feeds us with inside knowledge may be both right and wrong.

People who make a prediction can be"right", except the real world has nixed their knowledge.

Edmund

[Theodoros]

I guess there are still people that read mirrorless to where he says DSLR, they read "whatever", where he says "Leica", they read "other format", where he says "medium format" and they read "EVF" when he clearly speaks (on the LuLa interview) about the superiority of "huge OVF" and the relations of it with medium format and Hassy's tradition... Go figure... 

Go figure... 

[landscapephoto]

Only that this time there are no predictions... There's an interview of the CEO... https://www.ephotozine.com/article/perry-oosting-on-the-hasselblad-h6d-29166

And then there is a specific answer (from a CEO), to a specific question... Here is the exact question and the exact answer:

Q:  You spoke about broadening the appeal of Hasselblad and as the new H6D product sits at the top of the market, what will you do to broaden the appeal and do you plan to release something lower down in the market?
A: What would fit is something aimed at the prosumer - which we see as the dedicated amateur, passionate enthusiast, semi-professional etc. - already shooting with a DSLR. Part of this audience already buys into Leica and our first step would be to look at this area, prices and portability. The new H6Ds we are launching has the best in class ergonomics in terms of handling but they aren't the most portable.

And then...

Q: You have other companies such as Pentax in the medium format market, with the 645Z, that are quite competitively priced and quite portable for a medium format camera. Is this area something that Hasselblad will be looking at?

A: Portability will be key but how and which way it will be portable is yet to be announced. It's better to scream about something when you have something to say and our ambition towards that direction is there. The good thing is that more people will come to medium format and people are much more interested in quality.

People are interested in upgrading to medium format because they want to take their photography to the next level. If we can widen the usage, it will be a more interesting space.

I guess there are still people that read mirrorless to where he says DSLR, they read "whatever", where he says "Leica", they read "other format", where he says "medium format" and they read "EVF" when he clearly speaks (on the LuLa interview) about the superiority of "huge OVF" and the relations of it with medium format and Hassy's tradition... Go figure... 

I have not idea whether Perry Oosting is planing a copy of the Leica S with a huge OVF or not, but I know that his target market is nothing like you, eronald or me. Yet, by reading the interview, citing individual sentences out of context and filling the blanks with your own desires, you manage to convince yourself that the camera Perry Oosting has in mind is just the one you long for at the price you are prepared to pay. That is not going to happen.

[landscapephoto]

Generally speaking this forum and forums like it have a dismal record at predicting future products for two simple reasons:

• people like to predict what they would like, not what would bring revenue to the manufacturer
• people on this forum and forums like it are not the main market as they think they are.

I don't see what that has to do with prediction.

Say -hypothetically- someone planned to launch a mirrorless product based on a back-thinned MF sensor, gaining compacity with a small flange distance and symmetric-wide lens designs.

This is exactly what I am talking about: nobody planned to launch a "mirrorless product based on a back-thinned MF sensor, gaining compacity with a small flange distance and symmetric-wide lens designs". You are not predicting what Hasselblad may do, you are simply channeling the collective wishes expressed in this forum. But the "mirrorless MF based on a back-thinned MF sensor for symmetric-wide lens designs" is not going to happen, because there is no sufficient market to sustain its development.

As I said, I have no idea about the details of what Perry Oosting is planning. All I know is that he comes from companies marketing luxury products. To develop a new luxury product, one has to have it adopted by trendsetters, in that case new hip people who will impersonate a new trend in photography. These are not going to be the typical portly white male taking landscape pictures with a tech cam during an antarctic cruise. From a few hints in Perry Oosting's interview, the market is more likely to be hip young asian street and fashion photographers. And make no mistake: I am not talking the kind of fashion photography taken in a studio setting like people on this forum imagine fashion photography to be, I am talking what one sees in Vogue and Instagram.

So, whatever Hasselblad is planning, it will be small, look a bit like the 500C that Perry Oosting is carrying on about each press photograph of him published after he became Hasselblad CEO and be used to photograph hip Asian models.

[Theodoros]

I have not idea whether Perry Oosting is planing a copy of the Leica S with a huge OVF or not, but I know that his target market is nothing like you, eronald or me. Yet, by reading the interview, citing individual sentences out of context and filling the blanks with your own desires, you manage to convince yourself that the camera Perry Oosting has in mind is just the one you long for at the price you are prepared to pay. That is not going to happen.

IMO, the saying... "Part of this audience already buys into Leica and our first step would be to look at this area" is clear enough (and quite honest too) as to what he means as it can only have one translation from English, to ...English!

OTOH, I don't know if this kind of market interests you or Eronald... But is certainly interests me! Let me explain, on to this... I am a big fan of working with the minimum of equipment, but I want to be able to perform all different tasks with the best possible quality out of the equipment I use... I'm also extremely slow into upgrading as I believe in long term solutions and familiarisation with my equipment... So... I don't see why I have to use a different series of lenses with my DSLRs if I already have my MF lenses... and I don't see why I should have an extra series of lenses as to use with a tech camera... IMO, An MF system where one could add just another body to do what DSLRs do best and then a view camera body (only) as to adapt his MF lenses and backs on it (as well as an FF mirrorless, would be a ...dream system! Now with a MF modern DSLR, half of the problem is solved, as if one has a camera like that, he could use his existing MF lenses on it and ...get rid of his DSLR system altogether! 

Now, if Hasselblad comes with a modern 44x33 size sensor DSLR, one will be able to use his existing backs on an H5X body (especially if they are multishot backs), add just the portable body for single shot and LL photography and then just add an HTS adapter and replace (well.. almost) his view camera too... This is quite tempting, don't you agree? It may not be perfect (yet) as far as the view camera is concerned, but it will be (by far) the most "complete" (and thus economical too) offering in the market....   

[landscapephoto]

IMO, the saying... "Part of this audience already buys into Leica and our first step would be to look at this area" is clear enough (and quite honest too) as to what he means as it can only have one translation from English, to ...English!

You are taking that sentence out of context.

OTOH, I don't know if this kind of market interests you or Eronald... But is certainly interests me! Let me explain, on to this... I am a big fan of working with the minimum of equipment, but I want to be able to perform all different tasks with the best possible quality out of the equipment I use... I'm also extremely slow into upgrading as I believe in long term solutions and familiarisation with my equipment... So... I don't see why I have to use a different series of lenses with my DSLRs if I already have my MF lenses... and I don't see why I should have an extra series of lenses as to use with a tech camera...

Here you explain why a manufacturer should not be interested in you as a customer: manufacturers want customers who buy cameras and lenses, not people who are "extremely slow into upgrading".

Now, if Hasselblad comes with a modern 44x33 size sensor DSLR, one will be able to use his existing backs on an H5X body (especially if they are multishot backs), add just the portable body for single shot and LL photography and then just add an HTS adapter and replace (well.. almost) his view camera too... This is quite tempting, don't you agree? It may not be perfect (yet) as far as the view camera is concerned, but it will be (by far) the most "complete" (and thus economical too) offering in the market....   

I have been following your theories on various forums for years and I should say that you are really a remarkable person. Let me tell you something: Perry Oosting has not been brought from Vertu to Hasselblad to build the "economical" camera you are thinking about.

[siddhaarta]

Oosting's análisis is quite logical. All 3 other MFD brands follow the "big box principle". Only Leica has designed from scratch a compact new SRL-like system which attracted a certain kind of customer. Sure EVF would be an option, but he did not sound like that.

But to copy this idea, they would also have to design a whole family of new compact, tailor-made lenses which took Leica 5 years. I am curious what is Hasselblad's strategy for the lenses. Again partnership with Fuji? New/old partnership with Zeiss?

If they went again with Zeiss (I fear, it won't happen) this would be a really strong argument to steal some clients from Leica.

[Theodoros]

You are taking that sentence out of context.

Exactly.... I can read English... some others seem to have a difficulty doing so... 

Here you explain why a manufacturer should not be interested in you as a customer: manufacturers want customers who buy cameras and lenses, not people who are "extremely slow into upgrading".

To the contradict... manufacturers are creating reasons for one to upgrade (if they do things right)... Makers that are addressing their stuff to fanboys that "just buy" stuff for no reason are the "easy come -easy go" of type...  Within a few years they are "history"... Noticed Perry curing the 500 with him all the time? Look at the H6D promotion video... 

I have been following your theories on various forums for years and I should say that you are really a remarkable person. Let me tell you something: Perry Oosting has not been brought from Vertu to Hasselblad to build the "economical" camera you are thinking about.

You seem to know very little about marketing... Marketeers aren't of the selling expensive or cheap type... They are signed to create profits whether from an expensive or a cheaper product... Noticed the reduced Hassy prices from the past? Well, the past CEOs where not coming from Vertu... (yet they where selling at much higher prices than Hassy does now)... Go figure "logic".... 

[Theodoros]

Oosting's análisis is quite logical. All 3 other MFD brands follow the "big box principle". Only Leica has designed from scratch a compact new SRL-like system which attracted a certain kind of customer. Sure EVF would be an option, but he did not sound like that.

But to copy this idea, they would also have to design a whole family of new compact, tailor-made lenses which took Leica 5 years. I am curious what is Hasselblad's strategy for the lenses. Again partnership with Fuji? New/old partnership with Zeiss?

If they went again with Zeiss (I fear, it won't happen) this would be a really strong argument to steal some clients from Leica.

+1... I also like the name... "siddhaarta"? Inspired by Hesse's story I suppose?

EDIT: Never the less, if they go 4:3 there will be a good reason for much more appeal than Leica.... It's the only (serious) aspect I often hear for Leica-S to be criticised and I agree on this...

[siddhaarta]

Sure it is inspired by Hesse .. maybe I will change my avatar to "buddha" as soon as I manage to enter into the MF/LF-Nirvana 

as regards to 2:3/3:4 I recently analyzed my Olympus 3:4 photos and compared with my other Nikon/Leica 2:3 photos and found that I have the tendency to crop more towards 2:3.

But it seems, I am in the minority here. … and sure I love my Hasselblad V for the square

[Theodoros]

Sure it is inspired by Hesse .. maybe I will change my avatar to "buddha" as soon as I manage to enter into the MF/LF-Nirvana 

as regards to 2:3/3:4 I recently analyzed my Olympus 3:4 photos and compared with my other Nikon/Leica 2:3 photos and found that I have the tendency to crop more towards 2:3.

But it seems, I am in the minority here.

I guess then it won't be difficult to change your avatar soon... Quite worthwhile MF/LF equipment one can access for less than FF Dslrs these days and the Lula forum has enough people with past experience as to help you out... One only has to be careful with the "go figure opinions" that are (unfortunately) inevitable to avoid with forums... I'm sure you can manage around them though...  ...welcome.

[siddhaarta]

thanks …. I already have a Leica S equipment and I am quite happy with it. As somebody said, the most important factor for a good photo is the part before the sensor (the lens) and the part behind it (the photographer). As regards the lenses, I am all set, the Leica S lenses have a rendering which I have not seen anywhere else yet (ok some old V lenses, e.g. Biogon 38mm or Planar 110mm are not bad either).

But Siddhaarta is about a mental and spiritual process, in this case as a photographer .. there is where the way is still far to the nirvana.   

[landscapephoto]

Exactly.... I can read English... some others seem to have a difficulty doing so... 
 

To the contradict... manufacturers are creating reasons for one to upgrade (if they do things right)... Makers that are addressing their stuff to fanboys that "just buy" stuff for no reason are the "easy come -easy go" of type...  Within a few years they are "history"... Noticed Perry curing the 500 with him all the time? Look at the H6D promotion video... 

You seem to know very little about marketing... Marketeers aren't of the selling expensive or cheap type... They are signed to create profits whether from an expensive or a cheaper product... Noticed the reduced Hassy prices from the past? Well, the past CEOs where not coming from Vertu... (yet they where selling at much higher prices than Hassy does now)... Go figure "logic".... 

I think I'll leave the discussion at that. Since I understand neither English nor marketing, I am probably not the best person for you to exercise your superior knowledge.

[synn]

I think I'll leave the discussion at that. Since I understand neither English nor marketing, I am probably not the best person for you to exercise your superior knowledge.

As a marketeer who understands English, I can assure you that you made the right decision in not bothering to reason with good ol' Theo.

[ErikKaffehr]

I wish there was a "like button"…

As a marketeer who understands English, I can assure you that you made the right decision in not bothering to reason with good ol' Theo.

[NickT]

There is so much unpleasantness on these forums these days.

It does make one less inclined to post.

[landscapephoto]

There is so much unpleasantness on these forums these days.

It does make one less inclined to post.

That appears to be a general problem on all forums, not only photography. The more interesting posters started to slowly leave 10 years ago and were not replaced by new members who would also post interesting stuff. I wonder where they went.

In any case, the activity on forums suffered a more or less steady decline in the past 10 years. Sometimes, on less frequented forums, the number of messages did not suffer as much decline, but only because one or two members compensated by increasing their message count accordingly. I think that on dpreview, about a quarter of messages per day come from a handful of hyperactive posters.

Basically, forums are dead. At least, if I believe my children, they are not what young users do on the Internet these days.