P1 price list... Will they insist on it?

[yashima]

I can confirm at least one thing for sure - the chart that I posted earlier did in fact have an error with regard to the possibility of H5D digital back compatibility with H5X. And it is in fact compatible, which makes complete sense as it is indicated by Hasselblad as a feature. I did also try H4D-40 and H4D-60 digital backs on H5X which resulted in "Back not compatible" error messages. I also tried 40/50/60 digital backs on an H4X body, and received "Error ID 1212".

Updated chart has been shared with our team and is attached. We don't have a multi-shot body on hand at the moment, so cannot confirm any body compatibility with those models.

(Thanks Chris for letting me know!)


Steve Hendrix/CI

Hi Steve, So H4D-40/60 also do not work on H4x? I always thought otherwise.

Is it safe to assume that H6D backs definitely won't work on H5x?

[Steve Hendrix]

Hi Steve, So H4D-40/60 also do not work on H4x? I always thought otherwise.

Is it safe to assume that H6D backs definitely won't work on H5x?

As far as I know - at least the digital backs off our H4D-40 and H4D-60 did not work today...

I think your second question is answered best by not assuming. It's rarely safe to assume anything ! 

It would not surprise me if an H6D digital back did work on an H5X, but it also would not surprise me if it did not. Possibly if it did, since the electronics have been updated, perhaps there might be some limited functionality. Don't know. I think it is best to await delivery of the final product to verify, unless someone from Hasselblad would like to officially state sooner.


Steve Hendrix/CI

[eronald]

is there any physical difference between an x and a D body?

Edmund

As far as I know - at least the digital backs off our H4D-40 and H4D-60 did not work today...

I think your second question is answered best by not assuming. It's rarely safe to assume anything ! 

It would not surprise me if an H6D digital back did work on an H5X, but it also would not surprise me if it did not. Possibly if it did, since the electronics have been updated, perhaps there might be some limited functionality. Don't know. I think it is best to await delivery of the final product to verify, unless someone from Hasselblad would like to officially state sooner.


Steve Hendrix/CI

[ErikKaffehr]

I would definitively second that! Always liked Steve's postings!

Best regards
Erik

I think we ought to mention that Steve is a dealer of cameras who does his homework, and that no one on this forum has ever complained about him, which is also astonishing when you think of it


Edmund

[Graham Welland]

It's kind of like a Ferrari, as soon as you drive the car out of the dealers garage it looses half its value.

As someone who can talk to this one definitively I can assure you that this analogy is 100% incorrect. I've made money on Ferraris and I've broken even on Ferraris but I've never truly lost money on one. (Well, OK, other than the cost of OWNING/RUNNING a Ferrari which is another issue in itself but not related to buy/sell generally).

Wrt to cameras, I always expect a loss and put it down to my own rental for the privilege of using it. For lenses it is a much safer 'investment' and I use the quotes deliberately.

[Graham Welland]

For what it's worth I find NickT  to be one of the most valuable contributor's in this forum, especially as regards anything Hasselblad related.

It's hard to fin forum posters that are well informed, intelligent, and fair.

I greatly respect him.

Agreed and I'd also include yourself and Steve Hendrix here too.

I know some believe that you are all biased but in my experience over what are now many years I have to say that this is NOT my experience at all. You say what you mean and based on experience, be it commercial or personal and there really isn't a branded bias IMHO.

[Theodoros]

is there any physical difference between an x and a D body?

Edmund

Nope!

[Christoph B.]

As someone who can talk to this one definitively I can assure you that this analogy is 100% incorrect. I've made money on Ferraris and I've broken even on Ferraris but I've never truly lost money on one. (Well, OK, other than the cost of OWNING/RUNNING a Ferrari which is another issue in itself but not related to buy/sell generally).

Wrt to cameras, I always expect a loss and put it down to my own rental for the privilege of using it. For lenses it is a much safer 'investment' and I use the quotes deliberately.

So a used Ferrari sells for the same amount of money as you bought it new from the dealer? Sounds very implausible..no, actually unbelievable. I get it that some very rare and limited edition cars will keep their value or become even more valuable over time, but the same goes for Leicas.

However if you're buying a new Ferrari and you're selling it a few years afterwards as a used car I don't believe you'll be able to sell it for the same amount as you paid for it.

[Theodoros]

It is usual on the high tech market for the "early consumers" to be asked to pay a bit more... With the H6D one can't help notice, that Hasselblad is offering quite a discount if one trades off his older equipment, now given that the trade off value is much less than the discount offered and additionally that Hasselblad can't have any profit what so ever from the equipment that will be traded, One can't help to notice that the price of the H6D-50 comes very close to the current price of the H-5Dc... IMO this is explainable since there shouldn't be any serious manufacturing cost difference between the two products....

However, given that the new entry level Hassy coming this year (which Perry Oosten said that will be portable and will aim to compete with the Leica S market wise) will be an even cheaper ("entry level") product, it would be reasonable for one to expect (all shines and Perry Oosten's statements lead that way) a DSLR-like shape, specified competitively to Leica S (video, leaf shutter ability, high frame rate, similar size)  but with 33x44mm sensor (which should mean a couple of millimetres longer lens mounting distance than Leica S) at a price of around 10K... In other words a reframed H6D, with a mirror box designed exactly for 44x33mm sensors and much shorter mounting distance than the H series...

Now that would be something! Especially if they'll take their time with the new lens line and they provide an adapter instead (which is the reasonable thing to do - like Leica does) as for one to use the existing line of Hasselblad H lenses on the new body and thus retain an up-grade path too...

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Regarding the new Hasselblad, my guess would be no mirror box. Simply a mirrorless MFD that can use all existing lenses with an adapter. Think Sony A7 on steroids.

Best regards
Erik

It is usual on the high tech market for the "early consumers" to be asked to pay a bit more... With the H6D one can't help notice, that Hasselblad is offering quite a discount if one trades off his older equipment, now given that the trade off value is much less than the discount offered and additionally that Hasselblad can't have any profit what so ever from the equipment that will be traded, One can't help to notice that the price of the H6D-50 comes very close to the current price of the H-5Dc... IMO this is explainable since there shouldn't be any serious manufacturing cost difference between the two products....

However, given that the new entry level Hassy coming this year (which Perry Oosten said that will be portable and will aim to compete with the Leica S market wise) will be an even cheaper ("entry level") product, it would be reasonable for one to expect (all shines and Perry Oosten's statements lead that way) a DSLR-like shape, specified competitively to Leica S (video, leaf shutter ability, high frame rate, similar size)  but with 33x44mm sensor (which should mean a couple of millimetres longer lens mounting distance than Leica S) at a price of around 10K... In other words a reframed H6D, with a mirror box designed exactly for 44x33mm sensors and much shorter mounting distance than the H series...

Now that would be something! Especially if they'll take their time with the new lens line and they provide an adapter instead (which is the reasonable thing to do - like Leica does) as for one to use the existing line of Hasselblad H lenses on the new body and thus retain an up-grade path too...

[eronald]

Hi,

Regarding the new Hasselblad, my guess would be no mirror box. Simply a mirrorless MFD that can use all existing lenses with an adapter. Think Sony A7 on steroids.

Best regards
Erik

Obviously a mirrorless camera can be built around the Sony sensor. With a reduced flange distance, it could take Canon TSE shift lenses, and old V series lenses, but there might be an AF adapter for Canon and Sony 35mm lenses. Shooters might get the best of both worlds, choosing the lens for the image circle they want. 

Edmund

[Theodoros]

Hi,

Regarding the new Hasselblad, my guess would be no mirror box. Simply a mirrorless MFD that can use all existing lenses with an adapter. Think Sony A7 on steroids.

Best regards
Erik

It could be the case... However, P.Oosten specifically mentioned the Leica S and he was very clear on his LuLa interview on how MF is related with huge, clear, optical viewfinders that "let they eye in direct contact with the scene"... Hence... 

IMO, Hasselblad knows that in the near future there will be mirrorless MF proposals by mainstream makers anyway... They wouldn't like to be compared with them in the near future... They'd rather compete with a nice product maker (as they also are) that addresses to the same market section (and sells well)... If they would choose mirrorless instead, the negative results are inevitable and multiple as:

1. They will shortly be accused that they use rebranded products (imagine if there is a Sony release (or other) of MF mirrorless using the same sensor as Hasselblad...),
2. They let Leica S without competition to continue attracting their customers...

A mirrorless (or more than one) MF is to be expected... But not by Hasselblad (or P1, or Leica) IMO... I see all the "prediction" discussions that happen in forums, it sometimes makes you think if the CEO's own words are understood from the readers of a CEO's interview or not...

Never the less, when the new camera from Hasselblad appears in a few months and is priced as "entry level"...  Competition can't continue its current pricing policy... 

[Graham Welland]

So a used Ferrari sells for the same amount of money as you bought it new from the dealer? Sounds very implausible..no, actually unbelievable. I get it that some very rare and limited edition cars will keep their value or become even more valuable over time, but the same goes for Leicas.

However if you're buying a new Ferrari and you're selling it a few years afterwards as a used car I don't believe you'll be able to sell it for the same amount as you paid for it.

I didn't say that. If I had a new Ferrari 458 delivered to me today, I could sell it for more than I paid immediately. Supply and demand and no they don't ever lose 50% out of the showroom.

For more collectible Ferraris it definitely is an appreciating market just like Leica editions.

If you buy and use a mainstream car for a few years then sure they'll depreciate. That's the nature of supply and demand unless they are rare or collectible.

[Theodoros]

I think it's best to let Ferrarri for other forums and better talk about the (very exiting) entry level MF announcement by Hasselblad's CEO... Mr. Ooosten claimed that the new announcement coming, will attract more people to MF, which means that the marketing research for the new product showed a market expansion coming...

[Graham Welland]

Agreed here

[landscapephoto]

I think it's best to let Ferrarri for other forums and better talk about the (very exiting) entry level MF announcement by Hasselblad's CEO... Mr. Ooosten claimed that the new announcement coming, will attract more people to MF, which means that the marketing research for the new product showed a market expansion coming...

It's Perry Oosting, actually. As to what new product he is planning, it is very unlikely to be what people imagine on this particular forum. Generally speaking, this forum and forums like it have a dismal record at predicting future products. The action does not happen here.

[NickT]

It's Perry Oosting, actually. As to what new product he is planning, it is very unlikely to be what people imagine on this particular forum. Generally speaking, this forum and forums like it have a dismal record at predicting future products. The action does not happen here.

Thank you for that correction. You are correct there are a great many people here who are simply not planning on buying anything that Hasselblad or Phase One make but enjoy speculation.

I had a long chat with Perry the other day and what I can say is that he gets it. He has surrounded himself with clever people and he is listening to those people, in my opinion Hasselblad is back!

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Nice to hear! That was my impression from the LuLa interview, too.

Best regards
Erik

Thank you for that correction. You are correct there are a great many people here who are simply not planning on buying anything that Hasselblad or Phase One make but enjoy speculation.

I had a long chat with Perry the other day and what I can say is that he gets it. He has surrounded himself with clever people and he is listening to those people, in my opinion Hasselblad is back!

[eronald]

It's Perry Oosting, actually. As to what new product he is planning, it is very unlikely to be what people imagine on this particular forum. Generally speaking, this forum and forums like it have a dismal record at predicting future products. The action does not happen here.

er, yes, I think forum consensus did a good job on "predicting" ie. pretty accurate specs ahead of time on the H7D 100, and the Pentax 645Z.

One problem *I* used to have when I was an industry insider was that I saw a lot of prototypes, but it was really hard to know what a company would actually launch commercially. The Pentax 645D was a notorious example of this, the prototype was a zombie that floated around from show to show, and nobody knew what would happen, then one day bang! someone at Pentax/Ricoh had a brainwave and greenlighted the product. Much gets passed around in whispers, but often people who "predict" something that doesn't materialize weren't making up stories, it's just that some choice happened after they saw whatever they saw.

On a sidenote, I used to be paid quite well to publish a rumors column on the computer industry. It's amazing what you can find out, because there is one rule in the tech business: You get in trouble if you leak, but you never get in trouble for gossiping about your competitors. Walk up to any rep, and they will clam up if you ask them about next month's product, but they will tell you every detail about the stuff their competitors are threatening to ship. And also, they'll tell you what the production issues and the bugs are. Often the bugs they found out about by using the same components

Edmund

[landscapephoto]

er, yes, I think forum consensus did a good job on "predicting" ie. pretty accurate specs ahead of time on the H7D 100, and the Pentax 645Z.

You mean the H6D-100c and Pentax 645z? These "predictions" was pretty easy at the time.

Generally speaking this forum and forums like it have a dismal record at predicting future products for two simple reasons:

• people like to predict what they would like, not what would bring revenue to the manufacturer
• people on this forum and forums like it are not the main market as they think they are.