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Author Topic: Canon sows FUD  (Read 34847 times)

michael

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Canon sows FUD
« on: September 10, 2015, 07:53:45 am »

Back in the day (and I know many here will remember), when IBM was king, if another company started shipping a computer that was faster or in some way better than anything that IBM then had, they would quickly announce a new model that on promise at least blew the competition into the weeds.

At that time, the slogan in business and academia was "No one ever got fired for buying IBM".

Now we have Canon announcing that they are developing a 120 Megapixel DSLR and an 8K video camera. No anticipated date for delivery, just that they are "in development".

Does this now seem to anyone reminiscent of IBM's FUD strategy from years past?

Just say'n.

Michael
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Canon sows FUD
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2015, 08:22:11 am »

Does this now seem to anyone reminiscent of IBM's FUD strategy from years past?

Hi Michael,

No, I do not see how this would instill Fear into anybody, and Uncertainty and Doubt (some people with low self-esteem get scared very easily) are better treated by professionals in the medical field.

I just view the announcements as progress feedback, and they are not the first reports about their many research projects. Do remember that Canon is a leading company in the field of patent applications and grants, anually ranking in the very top (at #3 amongst the IBMs and Samsungs of this world), for more than a decade (or two). Some people occasionally need to be reminded of that feat, and understand that Canon sets its own pace based on a very long planning horizon (typical of many Japanese companies).

Cheers,
Bart
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Canon sows FUD
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2015, 08:25:25 am »

They already have a functioning 250 Mpx sensor, so it shouldn't take too long to bring it to consumer market: http://www.canon.com/news/2015/sep07e.html
« Last Edit: September 10, 2015, 08:27:40 am by Slobodan Blagojevic »
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Otto Phocus

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Re: Canon sows FUD
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2015, 08:45:14 am »

Does this now seem to anyone reminiscent of IBM's FUD strategy from years past?

Michael


No, I don't see this announcement of a future product being anything "FUDly" because as already posted there is no fear, uncertainty or doubt in this announcement.

What would be FUDly would be if a competitor to Canon were to publish articles warning customers about how their computers won't be able to handle it, that Adobe won't be able to support it, or that this many Mega-pickles has to result in some vague undesired compromise.
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synn

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Re: Canon sows FUD
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2015, 08:47:15 am »


What would be FUDly would be if a competitor to Canon were to publish articles warning customers about how their computers won't be able to handle it, that Adobe won't be able to support it, or that this many Mega-pickles has to result in some vague undesired compromise.

Kinda like how Canon reps were saying for years that Nikon wont be able to make a full frame DSLR as the F mount is too small?

This isn't quite FUD, but more of a panic reaction to the Sony avalanche. I don't expect anything shipped in the immediate future.
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rdonson

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Re: Canon sows FUD
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2015, 09:34:39 am »

Now we have Canon announcing that they are developing a 120 Megapixel DSLR and an 8K video camera. No anticipated date for delivery, just that they are "in development".

Does this now seem to anyone reminiscent of IBM's FUD strategy from years past?

Just say'n.

Michael


Not FUD but perhaps a desperate attempt not to cede sensor tech advances to Sony or an attempt to draw attention away from their nearly non-existent mirrorless offerings.  The PR flacks at Canon are revving up their motors in an attempt to stay relevant in a changing market.  I think of it as more of a "hey! remember us?" move.
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Regards,
Ron

MatthewCromer

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Re: Canon sows FUD
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2015, 09:35:42 am »

Back in the day (and I know many here will remember), when IBM was king, if another company started shipping a computer that was faster or in some way better than anything that IBM then had, they would quickly announce a new model that on promise at least blew the competition into the weeds.

At that time, the slogan in business and academia was "No one ever got fired for buying IBM".

Now we have Canon announcing that they are developing a 120 Megapixel DSLR and an 8K video camera. No anticipated date for delivery, just that they are "in development".

Does this now seem to anyone reminiscent of IBM's FUD strategy from years past?

Just say'n.

Michael


You've just about precisely crystallized my thoughts about this Canon non-announcement announcement.

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Bo Dez

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Re: Canon sows FUD
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2015, 09:45:59 am »

Well said, I agree it's FUD.

all it says to me is "please don't leave us for Sony we'll try harder"

They should have said and done something about it 5 years ago. IMO, the horse has bolted while the fat cats were asleep.
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MatthewCromer

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Re: Canon sows FUD
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2015, 09:50:22 am »

Well said, I agree it's FUD.

all it says to me is "please don't leave us for Sony we'll try harder"

They should have said and done something about it 5 years ago. IMO, the horse has bolted while the fat cats were asleep.

Funny you should mention saying something about this five years ago.

Real artists ship.

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/2773376832/canon120mpsensor

Where can I buy it?
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rdonson

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Re: Canon sows FUD
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2015, 09:54:31 am »

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Regards,
Ron

MatthewCromer

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Re: Canon sows FUD
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2015, 09:59:14 am »

Or... Canon 8 years ago announcing their 50 MP sensor

http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/04/canon-crams-50-megapixels-into-a-cmos-prototype/



Well, they did finally ship a 50MP camera after 8 years. So I guess that means we might see a 150+ sensor from them, sometime around 2023...
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Canon sows FUD
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2015, 10:01:14 am »

Yep, 100% FUD.

What's pretty pathetic though is that they seem to think that 120mp is the killer feature when a large majority of photographers are asking for more DR...

Cheers,
Bernard

Manoli

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Re: Canon sows FUD
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2015, 10:08:33 am »

What's pretty pathetic though is that they seem to think that 120mp is the killer feature when a large majority of photographers are asking for more DR...

Are they ?
.. or is it for the new iPhone 6s   ;)

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AlterEgo

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Re: Canon sows FUD
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2015, 10:11:52 am »

What's pretty pathetic though is that they seem to think that 120mp is the killer feature when a large majority of photographers are asking for more DR...
Iliah Borg is arguing in more than one place that your real life flare and glare will anyways limit you to 11 stops max with a perfect combo of the lens, sensor assembly anti-reflective coatings and very good chamber matting... so once/if Canon will fix banding in deep shadows for good, they are close to the target and with 120mp.... profit !

speaking of which - do you have a real life raw shot that can demostrate Iliah 12 stops of DR ? from some of your Nikons ? or even 11 for that matter ? the whole day ahead, I 'd love to see a good discussion.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2015, 10:16:09 am by AlterEgo »
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MatthewCromer

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Re: Canon sows FUD
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2015, 10:17:11 am »

Iliah Borg is arguing in more than one place that your real life flare and glare will anyways limit you to 11 stops max with a perfect combo of the lens, sensor assembly anti-reflective coatings and very good chamber matting... so once/if Canon will fix banding in deep shadows for good, they are close to the target and with 120mp.... profit !

Comparisons between real-world images taken with Sony versus Canon sensors show big differences in the shadows in noise, not just banding.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Canon sows FUD
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2015, 10:20:57 am »

Yep, 100% FUD.

What's pretty pathetic though is that they seem to think that 120mp is the killer feature when a large majority of photographers are asking for more DR...

It seems to be designed for surveillance and reconnaisance. Not for the everyday snapshooter. And well, a 13168 x 9120 pixel sensor array (2.22 micron pitch) allows for a lot of down-sampling (noise reduction) ..., and at 5 frames per second (!) that allows for some impressive HDRI exposure bracketing as well ;)

Cheers,
Bart
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AlterEgo

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Re: Canon sows FUD
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2015, 10:21:16 am »

Comparisons between real-world images taken with Sony versus Canon sensors show big differences in the shadows in noise, not just banding.

surely reducing readout noise @ low gains is good, but the wording was about DR (and low readout noise is just one component there), so you have a raw example illustrating 11 stops from some Nikon D8** series ?
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AlterEgo

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Re: Canon sows FUD
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2015, 10:22:57 am »

It seems to be designed for surveillance and reconnaisance.
8K video for 2020 Olympics with 4->1 binning, why not ?
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Canon sows FUD
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2015, 10:30:07 am »

Or... Canon 8 years ago announcing their 50 MP sensor

http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/04/canon-crams-50-megapixels-into-a-cmos-prototype/

Correct Ron, Canon is not reacting, they're sticking to their own planning. The speed may seem glacial at times, but it's hard to stop them from delivering useful products as time goes by. I have a bit more of an issue with how fast e.g. Sony products get phased out (leading to service issues), and replaced by newer versions. Lot's of built in obsolescence in those products.

Cheers,
Bart
« Last Edit: September 10, 2015, 11:24:33 am by BartvanderWolf »
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michael

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Re: Canon sows FUD
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2015, 10:35:32 am »

Funny you should mention saying something about this five years ago.

Real artists ship.

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/2773376832/canon120mpsensor

Where can I buy it?

I was an invited guest to the Canon Technology Showcase in NYC at the Javits when the 120MP chip was shown 5 years ago.

That's why this week's announcement looks like FUD. Either ship it already, or shut up till it's ready.

Michael


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