Covid 19 Updates Part 2

[JoeKitchen]

There have been many direct quotes from Trump posted that you seem to continually debunk.

Could you go on please?  I have no idea what you are getting at. 

I was merely pointing that I dont get all my news, or the majority of my news, from Fox, which you implied with your snarky post. 

And just like Peter Thiel, I take Trump seriously not literally.  I don't listen to every single thing he says.  I dont know anyone who does.  You surely don't, and neither do any fellow conservatives I know. 

If you still do, I dont care how disinterested you may be in politics, you're an idiot, plane and simple.  I think he has been doing this long enough that almost no one actually takes him literally anymore, except for idiots. 

We all know he likes to fluff stuff up, which is why everyone pays attention to what his advisers say as well. 

I mean you talk about Trump like people actually listen to everything he says.  Like there is this large group of Americans that takes every word out of his mouth as gospel.  Good lord, you really need to get out more.  Seriously, there is not a single person I know, on the right and certainly on the left, that listens to Trump the way you think people listen to him.

[BobShaw]

Really Bob?

I was in Australia just before all the lockdowns happened, and your country did not handle this any better then ours, not by any stretch.  You had the same slow response that we did and appeared to impliment the same measures at the same period in time, or perhaps a little later.

I should also mention I belong to an Australian cigar forum and the Australians there do not act as if they had the magic formula.  They are just as pissed as we are over here.

Everyone is pissed. The reality is though that most are doing what they are told and it is under control. There are even joke groups on Facebook like Bin Isolation Outing. Check it out.

Australia - 25M people, 4900 cases, 21 deaths, 269 new cases today, 348 new cases yesterday.
Maybe something closer to you
Canada - 37M people, 9005 cases, 105 deaths, 1300 new cases today, 1400 new cases yesterday

USA - 300M people, 187,000 cases, 3846 deaths, 24,100 new cases today, 22,600 new cases yesterday.
Work it out yourselves, if you can.

[BernardLanguillier]

Do I hear crickets? 

I think I do. 

You said the way Trump handled this in preparing was the issue while acting as if it would be the case that if a different person was in charge, it would have been better.  Well, first, the preparing part would have been pre-Italy, you know, before it broke out.  That is how preparing works; it happens before the event.  Second, if someone else is so much better at this, then at least one politician would have had the foresight to warn us, instead of wasting our time with impeachment.  But no one actually did. 

But anyway, crickets it is I guess.   

PS, so who is your boogie man in Italy?  The Italian death rate is up around 9%, much higher then ours.  Your blood pressure must go through the roof when you think of their politicians.

No. I spoke about reaction.

My exact words were: "the point isn't the prepardness - although there is a lot to say on this - but they way he kept denying the scientific facts. Every day matters here and your attempts to paint everything in a fuzzy light is not intellectually honest"

I wonder if you realize the extend to which you have integrated and made your own the conversational tactics of Trump industry... which is basically about stopping to converse. Continue to unleash a stream of stuff whose only coherence is that it fits a predefined story line. Completely ignoring secondary things such as facts and opinions, however logical and sensible they may be.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Alan Klein]

Yeh...and it might have been smart to see what lessons were learned by other countries that tackled SARS...rather than learning those lessons for the first time.

the smart person learns from his mistakes. The wise person learns from the mistakes of others. Unfortunately most of us are not even smart.

[Jim Pascoe]

Grandchildren don't have to be let back in.  Problem solved.

We have a daughter and her child (our grandchild) living with us.  Do you think we should turf them out on the street....?

[Rob C]

Could you go on please?  I have no idea what you are getting at. 

I was merely pointing that I dont get all my news, or the majority of my news, from Fox, which you implied with your snarky post. 

And just like Peter Thiel, 1. I take Trump seriously not literally. 2. I don't listen to every single thing he says. 3. I dont know anyone who does.  You surely don't, and neither do any fellow conservatives I know. 

4. If you still do, I dont care how disinterested you may be in politics, you're an idiot, plane and simple.  I think he has been doing this long enough that almost no one actually takes him literally anymore, except for idiots. 

We all know he likes to fluff stuff up, which is why everyone pays attention to what his advisers say as well. 

I mean you talk about Trump like people actually listen to everything he says.  Like there is this large group of Americans that takes every word out of his mouth as gospel.  Good lord, you really need to get out more.  Seriously, there is not a single person I know, on the right and certainly on the left, that listens to Trump the way you think people listen to him.

1. That's a clever trick!

2. That's not surprising, but it weakens all of your arguments quite substantially.

3.  The leader that nobody who supports him listens to because...

4. Both offensive to the poster addressed, and at last, a frank admission that the republican god is thought an idiot by - republicans.

Think of the time and electricity you could have saved the forum had you admitted all of this up front, in the usual, in-your-face, USA way of straight talking.

But anyway, as you have shown, truth will eventually out!

[elliot_n]

Interesting data from Google, tracking the movement of people in various countries, and hence the efficacy of their 'stay at home' policies.

The US seems to be failing when compared to European countries. Perhaps this is due to the celebrated 'American psyche'?

(Sadly no data from China, the only country that seems to have got the virus under control.)

https://www.google.com/covid19/mobility/

[Jim Pascoe]

I thought the original point of this thread was to discuss the Coronavirus.  Part of that could also be to discuss the response and actions of the governments in charge.  What I don't understand is why any criticism of the way Trump has handled this in the US is deemed to be political.  He is the leader and so has to be held to account for his actions - but to say he's not doing a good job does not have to imply that a leader from the opposite side of the political spectrum would do any better.

To compare with the UK - while initially the Conservative government appeared to be closely following the medical and scientific advice, in the past few days there is questioning over their priorities in ramping up testing, the supply of testing equipment and the logistics of Personal Protective Equipment.  Yet I do not sense anything political in this - nobody seems to be saying a different colour of government could do better.

From what I can see of the arguments here, mainly from US citizens, is that everything is about Trump's personality cult.  If you don't like him you must be a liberal etc.

He may have been good news for the US economy - but is he the right leader for the current crisis?  There is nothing political in that question either.  Personally from what I see of him (which like 99% of the worlds population is on the TV) - I cannot stand the guy.  His self-satisfied smirk, the way he averts his gaze so often when he should be making eye contact, the ridiculously childish vocabulary he uses - his inability to be honest and say "I was wrong, but now that I understand the problem I am going to do my very best to sort it" rather than try to make out he always had a 'cunning plan' (for a British audience). I'm not being political because at the moment I don't care whether it is a Republican or a Democrat in charge.  It would be nice to have a trustworthy President though.

Jim

[BernardLanguillier]

Could you go on please?  I have no idea what you are getting at. 

I was merely pointing that I dont get all my news, or the majority of my news, from Fox, which you implied with your snarky post. 

And just like Peter Thiel, I take Trump seriously not literally.  I don't listen to every single thing he says.  I dont know anyone who does.  You surely don't, and neither do any fellow conservatives I know. 

If you still do, I dont care how disinterested you may be in politics, you're an idiot, plane and simple.  I think he has been doing this long enough that almost no one actually takes him literally anymore, except for idiots. 

We all know he likes to fluff stuff up, which is why everyone pays attention to what his advisers say as well. 

I mean you talk about Trump like people actually listen to everything he says.  Like there is this large group of Americans that takes every word out of his mouth as gospel.  Good lord, you really need to get out more.  Seriously, there is not a single person I know, on the right and certainly on the left, that listens to Trump the way you think people listen to him.

This is surreal...

The issue with Trump isn't - only or even mostly - what he says... it's what he does... or doesn't do. Or does late.

And what he hasn't done in this case is exactly the reason why the communist magazine Fortune wrote in January "why Trump is bad for business" on the cover page of the magazine.

Because even if the stock market, with the opportunistic leanings we have learned to like, has temporarily gone up at the end of the day what matters is the total story. The big picture. And you cannot only get the good Trump - or the filtered version of the good Trump where you only hear the part you want to hear - no, you get only one Trump. And that one Trump is responsible for thousands of casualties because he applied the same recipe this time again... to not listen to the people who knew. Those educated scientists with a degree. And those casualities are responsible for a late lock down that is/will end up being several times as bad as it could have been had the right decisions taken timely when all the evidence was visible in Europe already for weeks.

So that same Trump you have kept praising for his positive impact on the economy is directly responsible for how bad the current collapse is, how long millions of people will have to remain un-employed, how bad an impact the support packages will have on the US debt,... all that because he waited 3 weeks too long in order to not impact the economy he is now hurting more badly than any president before him.

Cheers,
Bernard

[William Walker]

Do I hear crickets? 

I think I do. 

You said the way Trump handled this in preparing was the issue while acting as if it would be the case that if a different person was in charge, it would have been better.  Well, first, the preparing part would have been pre-Italy, you know, before it broke out.  That is how preparing works; it happens before the event.  Second, if someone else is so much better at this, then at least one politician would have had the foresight to warn us, instead of wasting our time with impeachment.  But no one actually did. 

But anyway, crickets it is I guess.   

PS, so who is your boogie man in Italy?  The Italian death rate is up around 9%, much higher then ours.  Your blood pressure must go through the roof when you think of their politicians.

If this February the 5th tweet is too much for you to handle then please don't read this link from Charlie Syke's "The Bulwark" - you know Charlie Sykes, the (ex?) Rebublican?

Alan, this link gives a pretty detailed timeline of your government's response to the problem. It would be fair to make the observation that the early warnings - pre 2020, cannot be blamed on Trump, I think it would be unfair to expect him be told any of that, let alone expect him to take some sort of action.

However, if you read Micheal Lewis's (The Big Short, Moneyball etc...) "The Fifth Risk" you will learn how Steve Bannon's "deconstructing government" idea was put into effect.... it is not then difficult to understand why your government's response would not be optimal - they have hollowed out "the deep state" and replaced them with political hacks and "yesmen". For that, Trump must take responsibility.... Now you have the Perfect Storm.

Joe, if, on the 29th February Trump made his "the hype about the corona virus is another Democrat hoax" rally speech, surely that means that Democrats were criticising his efforts before that date? Mid-February perhaps?

https://thebulwark.com/warnings-ignored-a-timeline-of-trumps-covid-19-response/

[BobShaw]

Interesting data from Google, tracking the movement of people in various countries, and hence the efficacy of their 'stay at home' policies.

The US seems to be failing when compared to European countries. Perhaps this is due to the celebrated 'American psyche'?

(Sadly no data from China, the only country that seems to have got the virus under control.)

I have been watching some stuff going on in China. They and several countries now have apps monitoring people that are supposed to be in isolation. They also have a lot of CCTV with face recognition that works even through masks. If you don't isolate then you probably will be caught.

DJI have manufactured a lot of Drones. They are being used to spray public areas, transport medical samples and deliver food to those in isolation.

In Australia we are looking to start using drones for spraying too. At the moment no apps but police and the army are door knocking for people who are supposed to be self isolating.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Could you go on please?  I have no idea what you are getting at. 

I was merely pointing that I dont get all my news, or the majority of my news, from Fox, which you implied with your snarky post. 

And just like Peter Thiel, I take Trump seriously not literally.  I don't listen to every single thing he says.  I dont know anyone who does.  You surely don't, and neither do any fellow conservatives I know. 
[...]

You say that you take Trump seriously, not literally. Wat is it that you do take seriously?
You say that you don't listen to every little thing he says. Why not?

The things that Trumps says (however stupid), has an effect and may affect you. Case in point, there is Governors who has been following Trump's (initial) lead (the economy being more important than people's health) and as an excuse claims to have just heard 24-hours ago that Asymptomatic infection is an issue, so they are considering a stricter social distancing regime. Duh.

Whatever Trump says, will inspire fools to please him, and that will affect YOU! So you better do listen to every stupid thing he says.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

South Korea has 89 new cases today. The USA has 24,100 new case today...

And per capita? Plus timing difference?

[elliot_n]

And per capita? Plus timing difference?

SK — 2 new cases per million population
US — 74 new cases per million population

Both countries had their first case 20 Jan 2020

[LesPalenik]

And per capita? Plus timing difference?

Deaths per 1 million
S. Korea - 3
Australia - 1
Finland - 3
Greece - 5
Singapore - 1
Croatia - 2
Canada - 5
Czechia - 4

USA - 18
UK - 43

France - 83
Spain - 243
Italy - 230

[degrub]

Don't forget that the US is very sparse with testing versus Korea. As testing ramps up so do the number of reported cases. Korea was very aggressive with testing as they were prepared from the previous H1N1 outbreak.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... I take Trump seriously not literally.  I don't listen to every single thing he says.  I dont know anyone who does.  You surely don't, and neither do any fellow conservatives I know. 

If you still do, I dont care how disinterested you may be in politics, you're an idiot, plane and simple.  I think he has been doing this long enough that almost no one actually takes him literally anymore, except for idiots. 

We all know he likes to fluff stuff up, which is why everyone pays attention to what his advisers say as well. 

I mean you talk about Trump like people actually listen to everything he says.  Like there is this large group of Americans that takes every word out of his mouth as gospel.  Good lord, you really need to get out more.  Seriously, there is not a single person I know, on the right and certainly on the left, that listens to Trump the way you think people listen to him.

Amen, brother!

[Manoli]

And per capita? Plus timing difference?

At this point in time, per capita is wholly irrelevant (again)!

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

SK — 2 new cases per million population
US — 74 new cases per million population

Both countries had their first case 20 Jan 2020

That's NY. And everybody knows NY is not America and America is not NY

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Deaths per 1 million
...

USA - 18
UK - 43

France - 83
Spain - 243
Italy - 230

Big countries with socialized medicine. Hmmmm....