Covid 19 Updates Part 2

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

At this point in time, per capita is wholly irrelevant (again)!...

Seriously!? Because you say so?

[JoeKitchen]

We have a daughter and her child (our grandchild) living with us.  Do you think we should turf them out on the street....?

If they were foolish enough to go to Spring Break, which is what that post was in reference to, Spring Breakers. 

Was your daughter partying it up down south this year?

[Manoli]

Seriously!? Because you say so?

No, because the rate of increase (aka momentum) is irrelevant to whether one starts with a base of 100 or 100 mill.
Yes.

[...]
If comparing prevalence of cancer between countries, you’d adjust per capita,  because it’s not a transmissible disease: it comes from lifestyle, genes, pure chance, so if per-capita rate is higher in A than B, then that’s because of something specific to that country.  Covid spreads from person to person; it’s not like cancer. It’s exogenous.

Generally, these digressions are not informative regarding HOW a country’s dealing with Covid-19.  So all we should be focussed on is the % increase as a measure of expansion (and containment). The rest can come later.

[LesPalenik]

Big countries with socialized medicine. Hmmmm....

Here is another country with socialized medicine: Germany  - only 13 deaths per 1 million

[Rob C]

Big countries with socialized medicine. Hmmmm....

Give the US time to catch up; it came late to the party.

As an observation, I can imagine that the southern European way of kissed greetings, much café living, and closer family relationships than in more western countries has also played a part in the spreading of the virus. Europeans are a more tactile bunch of people. Maybe they have and enjoy more shared sex.

There is no free love: somebody always pays. (Suzi Quatro's mother said that.)

[JoeKitchen]

This is surreal...

The issue with Trump isn't - only or even mostly - what he says... it's what he does... or doesn't do. Or does late.

And what he hasn't done in this case is exactly the reason why the communist magazine Fortune wrote in January "why Trump is bad for business" on the cover page of the magazine.

Because even if the stock market, with the opportunistic leanings we have learned to like, has temporarily gone up at the end of the day what matters is the total story. The big picture. And you cannot only get the good Trump - or the filtered version of the good Trump where you only hear the part you want to hear - no, you get only one Trump. And that one Trump is responsible for thousands of casualties because he applied the same recipe this time again... to not listen to the people who knew. Those educated scientists with a degree. And those casualities are responsible for a late lock down that is/will end up being several times as bad as it could have been had the right decisions taken timely when all the evidence was visible in Europe already for weeks.

So that same Trump you have kept praising for his positive impact on the economy is directly responsible for how bad the current collapse is, how long millions of people will have to remain un-employed, how bad an impact the support packages will have on the US debt,... all that because he waited 3 weeks too long in order to not impact the economy he is now hurting more badly than any president before him.

Cheers,
Bernard

So when did Trump stop travel from China?  January, before every other country.  He also started shutting down travel to/from Europe beginning of March.  When did Trump shut down the country, middle of March, like everyone else.  Did Trump reopen the  country even though he said he wanted by Easter.  No, he extended it. 

Please explain to me how this is doing nothing and not listening to the experts. 

You and so many others get caught up in the minutia of what he says, but not what he means or does. 

[JoeKitchen]

4. Both offensive to the poster addressed, and at last, a frank admission that the republican god is thought an idiot by - republicans.

Think of the time and electricity you could have saved the forum had you admitted all of this up front, in the usual, in-your-face, USA way of straight talking.

But anyway, as you have shown, truth will eventually out!

It's only offensive to those that actually take him literally Rob, and if you're stupid enough to do so after over 3 years as president, then yes, you're an idiot. 

[Rob C]

So when did Trump stop travel from China?  January, before every other country.  When did Trump shut down the country, middle of March, like everyone else.  Did Trump reopen the  country even though he said he wanted by Easter.  No, he extended it. 

Please explain to me how this is doing nothing and not listening to the experts. 

You and so many others get caught up in the minutia of what he says, but not what he means or does.

You are again assuming a lot. In this case, that he knows what he means or does. It certainly doesn't look that way.

[JoeKitchen]

If this February the 5th tweet is too much for you to handle then please don't read this link from Charlie Syke's "The Bulwark" - you know Charlie Sykes, the (ex?) Rebublican?

Alan, this link gives a pretty detailed timeline of your government's response to the problem. It would be fair to make the observation that the early warnings - pre 2020, cannot be blamed on Trump, I think it would be unfair to expect him be told any of that, let alone expect him to take some sort of action.

However, if you read Micheal Lewis's (The Big Short, Moneyball etc...) "The Fifth Risk" you will learn how Steve Bannon's "deconstructing government" idea was put into effect.... it is not then difficult to understand why your government's response would not be optimal - they have hollowed out "the deep state" and replaced them with political hacks and "yesmen". For that, Trump must take responsibility.... Now you have the Perfect Storm.

Joe, if, on the 29th February Trump made his "the hype about the corona virus is another Democrat hoax" rally speech, surely that means that Democrats were criticising his efforts before that date? Mid-February perhaps?

https://thebulwark.com/warnings-ignored-a-timeline-of-trumps-covid-19-response/

Where is the rest of his statement saying we need a $2T stimulus and the country needs to be closed down for 6 weeks? 

Notice I wrote to the same level as we are talking about it now. 

[Rob C]

It's only offensive to that you actually take him literally Rob, and if you're stupid enough to so after over 3 years of as president, then yes, you're an idiot.

In other words, he's talking in tongues.

Explains why he goes down so well in the bible class.

[LesPalenik]

That's NY. And everybody knows NY is not America and America is not NY

Louisana is worse than New York. Not so much because of lack of ventilators, as due to risky life style.

Along with New York and Seattle, New Orleans has emerged as one of the early U.S. hot spots for the coronavirus, making it a national test case for how to control and treat the disease it causes. Chief among the concerns raised by doctors working in the Louisiana city is the death rate, which is twice that of New York and over four times that of Seattle, based on Thursday’s publicly reported data.

New Orleans residents suffer from obesity, diabetes and hypertension at rates higher than the national average, conditions that doctors and public health officials say can make patients more vulnerable to COVID-19, the highly contagious respiratory disease caused by the coronavirus. Some 97% of those killed by COVID-19 in Louisiana had a pre-existing condition, according to the state health department. Diabetes was seen in 40% of the deaths, obesity in 25%, chronic kidney disease in 23% and cardiac problems in 21%.

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/covid-19-new-orleans-coronavirus-death-rate-is-twice-new-yorks-and-obesity-is-a-factor

[JoeKitchen]

You say that you take Trump seriously, not literally. Wat is it that you do take seriously?
You say that you don't listen to every little thing he says. Why not?

The things that Trumps says (however stupid), has an effect and may affect you. Case in point, there is Governors who has been following Trump's (initial) lead (the economy being more important than people's health) and as an excuse claims to have just heard 24-hours ago that Asymptomatic infection is an issue, so they are considering a stricter social distancing regime. Duh.

Whatever Trump says, will inspire fools to please him, and that will affect YOU! So you better do listen to every stupid thing he says.

Bart, I really dont think any of the Democratic Governors listen to him.  If they did, we would not have any sanctuary cities or states.  Please provide me with which governors you are talking about. 

As of now, the only governors I know of that are not putting in stricter rules are those in states where agriculture is a major part of their economy.  Like it or not, it is planting season, and those plants need to get into the ground.  Shutting down the state would greatly hamper that. 

Not only that, it is planting season throughout nearly the entire northern hemisphere.  If exceptions are not made everywhere where agriculture is a big part of the economy, we will have a food shortage in 4 or 5 months. 

[Manoli]

Bart, I really dont think any of the Democratic Governors listen to him.  If they did, we would not have any sanctuary cities or states.  Please provide me with which governors you are talking about.

These ?

Something odd happened at Donald Trump’s daily press conference earlier this week. A chief executive — Mike Lindell of My Pillow which makes, er, pillows — declared that God chose Trump to be America’s president. He then added: “God had been taken out of our schools and lives. A nation had turned its back on God, and I encourage you to use this time at home to get back in the ‘Word’.” Trump admitted that he was not expecting Lindell to say that. He should not have been surprised. Lindell, whose company has agreed to make 50,000 cotton masks a day, is a longtime Trump fundraiser, whom the president wants to run for Minnesota governor in 2022. He is also a heavy-duty evangelist.

Many see the epidemic as divine retribution for our sins. Forty-four per cent of likely US voters see the coronavirus and the attendant economic meltdown as “a wake-up call to God’s faith, a sign of God’s coming judgment, or both”, according to McLaughlin & Associates - Trump’s pollsters.

This week, Florida, Georgia, Texas and Mississippi finally imposed varying degrees of “shelter-in-place” orders. Each of them, however, made an exception for churches.
[...]
If mass-illiterate medieval Europe could eventually figure it out, 21st century America has no excuse. Governors that have granted social distancing exceptions for churches are in breach of America’s separation of church and state. Their duty is to protect the citizens they serve, not the evangelists.

[JoeKitchen]

These ?

Something odd happened at Donald Trump’s daily press conference earlier this week. A chief executive — Mike Lindell of My Pillow which makes, er, pillows — declared that God chose Trump to be America’s president. He then added: “God had been taken out of our schools and lives. A nation had turned its back on God, and I encourage you to use this time at home to get back in the ‘Word’.” Trump admitted that he was not expecting Lindell to say that. He should not have been surprised. Lindell, whose company has agreed to make 50,000 cotton masks a day, is a longtime Trump fundraiser, whom the president wants to run for Minnesota governor in 2022. He is also a heavy-duty evangelist.

Many see the epidemic as divine retribution for our sins. Forty-four per cent of likely US voters see the coronavirus and the attendant economic meltdown as “a wake-up call to God’s faith, a sign of God’s coming judgment, or both”, according to McLaughlin & Associates - Trump’s pollsters.

This week, Florida, Georgia, Texas and Mississippi finally imposed varying degrees of “shelter-in-place” orders. Each of them, however, made an exception for churches.
[...]
If mass-illiterate medieval Europe could eventually figure it out, 21st century America has no excuse. Governors that have granted social distancing exceptions for churches are in breach of America’s separation of church and state. Their duty is to protect the citizens they serve, not the evangelists.

I seriously doubt the My-Pillow guy is to blame for governors giving exemptions to churches.  Not to mention, Trump has been asking the entire country to close down, but the Federal government does not have the right to do so.  Only the states do. 

[KLaban]

Trump's last few televised updates have seen him standing shoulder to shoulder with others: solidarity or stupidity?

What ever happened to social distancing?

[Manoli]

< This week, Florida, Georgia, Texas and Mississippi finally imposed varying degrees of “shelter-in-place” orders. Each of them, however, made an exception for churches. >
< Trump has been asking the entire country to close down, but the Federal government does not have the right to do so.  Only the states do. ? >

Joe, are these Dem or Rep governors ?

... and we're not listening to the same broadcasts, until only two days ago, he wanted the whole country 'back' by Easter.
... not to mention the sacking of the Captain of the US aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt :

Captain Brett Crozier, the ship’s commanding officer, wrote that the carrier lacked enough quarantine and isolation facilities and warned the current strategy would slow but fail to eradicate the highly contagious respiratory virus. In the letter dated Monday, he called for “decisive action” and removing over 4,000 sailors from the ship and isolating them. Along with the ship’s crew, naval aviators and others serve aboard the Roosevelt.

[Manoli]

I shouldn't have called them morons. They aren't.  Self-loving, power-seeking narcissists would have been better.

Johns Hopkins has identified 1,007,977 cases known to have been infected worldwide, of which most have been in the US.
Global death toll has passed 50,000
Italy remains the worst affected with 13,915 deaths, followed by
Spain, 10,003.
USA,  5,316 total deaths.
In all, at least 52,771 people are known to have died worldwide.

The first death in Italy occurred on the 22-February
9-March lockdown orders extended to the whole of Italy.

2,977 died in 9/11
2,403 died at Pearl Harbour in 1841

US entering a critical 14-day period  and between this thread and the previous one, over 100 pages have been spent bitchin' about Dems and Republicans preaching their virtues. Nice one.

[William Walker]

Where is the rest of his statement saying we need a $2T stimulus and the country needs to be closed down for 6 weeks? 

Notice I wrote to the same level as we are talking about it now.

Joe, I am sorry, I don't understand you reply... not serious, don't worry! It strikes me as a poor attempt to move the goalposts.

You asked Bernard for proof that politicians were talking about this in February, I supplied you with the proof. I also believe that Tom Cotton tried to persuade Trump to take this thing seriously on the 29th of February: why would he do that if things were going as well as you suggest? And, of course, we all know what Richard Burr said on the 27th February.

[LesPalenik]

Trump Asks Deutsche Bank and Palm Beach County to Give His Businesses a Break

Donald Trump’s company has asked its biggest lender, German financial giant Deutsche Bank, for a break on repaying some of its loans. The Trump Organization has also asked Palm Beach County for similar leeway on rent payments the president owes on one of his Florida golf courses.

As much as three quarters of Trump’s revenue in recent years has come from his travel-related businesses. Nearly all of Trump’s properties are shuttered; some are barely operating, with limited offerings. In all, the Trump Organization has laid off or furloughed more than 1,000 employees. The shutdowns may be costing the president as much as $680,000 a day in revenue.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-02/trump-organization-asks-deutsche-bank-for-loan-payment-delay

[JoeKitchen]

< This week, Florida, Georgia, Texas and Mississippi finally imposed varying degrees of “shelter-in-place” orders. Each of them, however, made an exception for churches. >
< Trump has been asking the entire country to close down, but the Federal government does not have the right to do so.  Only the states do. ? >

Joe, are these Dem or Rep governors ?

... and we're not listening to the same broadcasts, until only two days ago, he wanted the whole country 'back' by Easter.
... not to mention the sacking of the Captain of the US aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt :

This goes back to my point of you are taking him literally, but not seriously.  He was being aspirational and wanted to give the country hope saying he wanted to open by Easter.  But guess what, as new data came in, he changed his mind.  Wow!  I know crazy, a politician changing his mind, and 16 days prior to Easter too.  So, it looks like he actually listened to the experts here, again.

Insofar as the captain, he broke the chain of command and went directly to the press.  He deserved to get fired.  Obama did the same thing to General McChrystal.  I know a few people in the military, and they would all feel this was the correct thing to do.  People are demoted for less offense over breaking the chain of command.