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Author Topic: Canon 7D Mark II announced  (Read 24368 times)

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Canon 7D Mark II announced
« Reply #140 on: September 29, 2014, 12:33:53 am »

It's very subtle and well done, but still noticeable.  I can't pick it out in any one post, but when numerous posts are read (and one has a good memory), it becomes noticeable.

Guys,

Really, I apologize if I offended anyone. Some points (that may not be best shared in a thread about the 7DII but these personnal comments leave me little choice):
- I do clearly use Nikon equipment (although less and less since most of my lenses aren't Nikon, my flash system is Profoto,...) and I am overall happy about its performance and yes, I do comment on that from time to time, but rarely, if ever, do I comment negatively about other brands equipment in isolation,

- I believe that only a small sub-set of my posts are about the performance of bodies anyway, that really isn't my main interest in photography and I think I produce enough images to make that clear (whether you like them or not is a different topic),

- I really am brand agnostic in that I will buy whatever works best for me that I can afford and that delivers significant additional value compared to what I already own. That may very well include Canon equipment again if I think it can help me produce better images,

- I do think that lenses are a more important long term investment than bodies (especially high quality lenses), which is one of the reasons I am happy with my investment in F mount lenses that will make it rather painless to invest in a Canon body if it delivers better performance for what I do (meaning better DR). I believe that the difference in performance between bodies tend to be larger than between lenses (the gap between the Nikon and Canon 400mm f2.8 is tiny in absolute terms, they are both blow your mind good), so flexibility in picking any body is IMHO more important overall than the ability to use any possible type of lens while being locked in a mount. Fortunately, the Sony a7x system is now offering a similar option for EOS lenses owners,

- I do think that Canon makes some brilliant pieces of equipment that I would like to be able to use (17mm T/S, 85mm f1.2, new 200-400 f4,...) but they are not important enough for me to take in the additional cost. The 7DII is a great APS-C body and is vastly superior to anything Nikon has to offer in that segment (I wrote that several times in this very thread) even if, as a body from a spec standpoint, it seems far behind the Samsung NX1. On the other hand, I don't see any Canon FF body offering things Nikon FF bodies don't do equally well or better precisely in terms of overall balance of performance, not just DR. This is simply an objective view and I do not say this in order to advice anyone to move to Nikon, I couldn't care less what people do and I do very well understand that people have constraints (cost,...) or specific applications for which this may not be relevant or may be compensated by other aspects such as the availability of a unique lens. I don't remember ever advising someone to switch to Nikon,

- I do indeed think that some pieces of equipment have a questionable price/performance ratio compared to what I use today (think Leica S) but I do acknowledge the qualities of those systems (looks, UI, Lenses,...),

- I do indeed like to tease a bit sometimes, but it is more about highlighting what I think is a lack of objectivity rather than pushing Nikon stuff down the throat of people who clearly aren't interested anyway. It is up to them to react more or less smartly. ;)

As far as the recent exchanges with John/Jack, that I just don't get it because I haven't made any single mention of Nikon equipment at all. He is the one who brought the D810 in this discussion and wrote angry pages about it, probably getting confused with the other thread where HE asked inputs about that camera vs the D3x.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: September 29, 2014, 02:10:09 am by BernardLanguillier »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Canon 7D Mark II announced
« Reply #141 on: September 29, 2014, 12:34:29 am »

Got to give it to Jack. He is one of the few forum members I know capable of ceding a point in a gentlemanly fashion, without looking defeated. Hats off, Jack!

ErikKaffehr

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Re: Canon 7D Mark II announced
« Reply #142 on: September 29, 2014, 01:28:30 am »

Hi,

I have no pony in this race…

I was on a workshop with Hans Kruse in the Dolomites, and he was shooting both Canon and Nikon. Main reason may be that he feels the need to help customers on both systems.

My interpretation of what he said was really that Nikon had an advantage in DR, shooting Canon he needed to be more careful. So with Canon he needed expose to the right and bracket, while with the Nikon there was less need of that. He also said that Nikon had a clear advantage in resolution. But Canon also did the job.

Here I may add my observation that I see little (well none) difference in A2-size prints between my 39 MP MFD and my 24 MP Sony, although there is a large difference in file image quality.  Human vision doesn't need 36 MP for small prints like A2, I guess. So 24 MP may be plenty unless you print really large.

I also got the impression that Hans felt that the Canon was the system that was better designed.

Both companies make some wonderful lenses, like Canon 17 and 24 T&S lenses or the mighty 14-24/2.8 by Nikon.

Best regards
Erik



Got to give it to Jack. He is one of the few forum members I know capable of ceding a point in a gentlemanly fashion, without looking defeated. Hats off, Jack!
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John Koerner

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Re: Canon 7D Mark II announced
« Reply #143 on: September 29, 2014, 09:19:02 am »

Got to give it to Jack. He is one of the few forum members I know capable of ceding a point in a gentlemanly fashion, without looking defeated. Hats off, Jack!

As always, le provocateur

Defeated? Rubbish. My points have been well made pretty much across the board.

I clicked on the guy's site, ready to criticize, and I just liked his work and realized he was right: it's time to take it easy. That was the only point I ceded.

Same way as I don't get irritated at you anymore, Slobo. After all that "behind the scenes help" you took the time to give me on black-and-white conversions. I know behind that smart mouth and sharp tongue is a pretty cool dude  

Jack
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Canon 7D Mark II announced
« Reply #144 on: September 29, 2014, 09:48:14 am »

Jack, that was a genuine compliment. Nothing provocative or sarcastic intended. As for "defetead," I said the opposite.


EDIT: "that" above should read as "what I said" (in post #141)
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 12:15:18 pm by Slobodan Blagojevic »
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John Koerner

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Re: Canon 7D Mark II announced
« Reply #145 on: September 30, 2014, 11:06:58 am »

Jack, that was a genuine compliment. Nothing provocative or sarcastic intended. As for "defetead," I said the opposite.

Yours too :)
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BJL

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Re: Canon 7D Mark II announced
« Reply #146 on: September 30, 2014, 02:28:28 pm »

John, it was a simple yes or no question, and yet I do not understand your reply.

Let me try again:
You say that
1) "In every other category [except single-image resolution] the 7D II trumps the D810"
and
2) dynamic range is a different category than single-image resolution
from which by a basic syllogism
3) the 7D II trumps the D810 in the category of dynamic range.

So are you saying that the 7D II trumps the D810 in the category of dynamic range, yes or no?


By the way, the Canon 7D II seems like a great camera for many photographers' needs; I do not understand the "no camera in a smaller format should cost close to the cheapest camera in a larger format, regardless of other format-independent advantages" doctrine that we get from the "bigger is always (much) better" crowd.  But you seem to be pointlessly overstating its comparative strengths.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 07:02:09 pm by BJL »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Canon 7D Mark II announced
« Reply #147 on: September 30, 2014, 04:46:47 pm »

John, it was a simple yes or no question, and yet I do not understand your reply.

BJL,

You are talking to someone who is in love. No groom looks objectively at his bride the day before the wedding. ;)

I don't think it is our role to point out the extra pounds hiding below the wedding dress (unless you have a crash on John/Jack of course?). ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Canon 7D Mark II announced
« Reply #148 on: September 30, 2014, 05:00:23 pm »

... You are talking to someone who is in love. No groom looks objectively at his bride the day before the wedding. ;)

You guys are too cruel! There is nothing wrong with falling in love with 20th century technology. After all, some are still shooting 8x10 ;)

NancyP

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Re: Canon 7D Mark II announced
« Reply #149 on: September 30, 2014, 07:49:07 pm »

Come on - I know some folks that aspire to ULF: 11" x 14", 12" x 20", and so on.
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John Koerner

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Re: Canon 7D Mark II announced
« Reply #150 on: October 01, 2014, 12:15:27 am »

John, it was a simple yes or no question, and yet I do not understand your reply.

Let me try again:
You say that
1) "In every other category [except single-image resolution] the 7D II trumps the D810"
and
2) dynamic range is a different category than single-image resolution
from which by a basic syllogism
3) the 7D II trumps the D810 in the category of dynamic range.

So are you saying that the 7D II trumps the D810 in the category of dynamic range, yes or no?


By the way, the Canon 7D II seems like a great camera for many photographers' needs; I do not understand the "no camera in a smaller format should cost close to the cheapest camera in a larger format, regardless of other format-independent advantages" doctrine that we get from the "bigger is always (much) better" crowd.  But you seem to be pointlessly overstating its comparative strengths.



BJL, your question wouldn't have been a question, had you bothered to read everything.

I didn't bother to answer it, because you didn't bother to read before you wrote.

You attributed the exact opposite of what I actually said, in fact: hence the image.
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bcooter

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Re: Canon 7D Mark II announced
« Reply #151 on: October 01, 2014, 02:44:30 pm »

I think the 7d 2 has a great place, especially for small form combo video/still cameras, IF they had put an articulated screen on the camera and really, really should have offered better compression, more bit depth (in video).

Honestly I would love to see the makers stop fooling around.   Third party hackers have proved the 5d3 can shoot raw and even the olympus em-1 can do 4k at 4:2:2: and variable frame rates.

So if people with few resources can do this, so can the manufacturers.  

You know you can buy these little cameras and multiple brands until you've mortaged your kids college savings and that is the rub because everytime some company introduces a new camera something seems left off.

So honestly instead of the 7d2 I think 99.999% of the users of this camera would get equal functionality of a 70d for $900.

That's the one thing I really like about RED.   They're expensive but when RED went from the R1 to the Scarlet/Epic they changed the complete camera and form factor and continue to improve them with modules/accessories, obviously at a price.

Still, buying a new camera really should be buying a "new" camera that does major things the lower and previous models don't.
IMO

BC

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John Koerner

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Re: Canon 7D Mark II announced
« Reply #152 on: October 01, 2014, 06:19:53 pm »

BJL,

You are talking to someone who is in love. No groom looks objectively at his bride the day before the wedding. ;)

I don't think it is our role to point out the extra pounds hiding below the wedding dress (unless you have a crash on John/Jack of course?). ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

Extra pounds? Nonsense.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your D810 is the one carrying the extra pounds Bernard ;)


My new 7D II is going to faster, more athletic, more all-around capable, will perform more tasks ... and (best of all) she has some "new & responsive buttons" to push :o

So, yes, I am excited!  ;D

Jack
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jjj

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Re: Canon 7D Mark II announced
« Reply #153 on: October 01, 2014, 06:32:44 pm »

Extra pounds? Nonsense.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your D810 is the one carrying the extra pounds Bernard ;)


My new 7D II is going to faster, more athletic, more all-around capable, will perform more tasks ... and (best of all) she has some "new & responsive buttons" to push :o

So, yes, I am excited!  ;D

Jack
Grief, trying to prove one's personal choice of camera should also be someone's else's is one of the biggest wastes of time on photography forums. Use whatever camera suits you and be happy that other photographers like whatever camera they use.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Canon 7D Mark II announced
« Reply #154 on: October 01, 2014, 06:59:40 pm »

Extra pounds? Nonsense.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your D810 is the one carrying the extra pounds Bernard ;)

Yes, the D810 is a heavier camera.

My new 7D II is going to faster, more athletic, more all-around capable, will perform more tasks ... and (best of all) she has some "new & responsive buttons" to push

I am genuinely happy for you John/Jack.

Please inform if you need someone to take pictures of the box openinng ceremony.

Cheers,
Bernard

John Koerner

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Re: Canon 7D Mark II announced
« Reply #155 on: October 01, 2014, 07:50:10 pm »

LOL, I will do just that :)

All in fun ...
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BJL

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Re: Canon 7D Mark II announced
« Reply #156 on: October 01, 2014, 09:28:24 pm »


BJL, your question wouldn't have been a question, had you bothered to read everything.

I didn't bother to answer it, because you didn't bother to read before you wrote.

You attributed the exact opposite of what I actually said, in fact: hence the image.
Time for me to give up: I not only read your post #108 in this thread, I quoted from it.  Maybe you just forgot to mention Canon's recent dynamic range disadvantage in that particular post, so forgive me not reading all of the 200+ posts in this thread before responding to one that makes a rather absurd claim.

The weird thing is that I am far more enthusiastic about the 7D II than, say, Slobodan, and I applaud Canon for realizing that photographers who seek high magnification, either long telephoto or macro, can be better off with a good quality camera in a smaller format. Or more precisely, with smaller pixels and thus higher absolute sensor resolution in lp/mm. After all, I am very happy with my micro four thirds kit, with lenses like a 60/2.8 macro, the 50-200, and a 75-300 which pretends to be a "150-600" that I can comfortably carry all day.
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