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Author Topic: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting  (Read 53078 times)

Paul2660

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #40 on: January 21, 2014, 02:28:58 pm »

If it is a Sony chip which everything points to, then it will most likely be a game changer.  Sony has already shaken up the DSLR world with the 36Mp chip they made for Nikon, the the mirrorless world with the A7 family.

There is constant talk about Sony producing a 54 Mp 35mm chip and announcement seems to point they more than likely they will.

I have to gives Kudos to Hasselblad as their partnership with Sony is obviously much deeper than a rebadged Nex camera.

Paul
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eronald

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #41 on: January 21, 2014, 02:31:11 pm »

Your response has the virtue of candor. 

Don't get me wrong, I respect the product, I was just making fun of the show of support :)

Reminds me of the voting by show of hands in an Aristophanes comedy ...

Edmund
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RobertJ

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2014, 02:38:13 pm »

The Hassy Lunar is still the best camera in the world though.  I'll never use another camera that isn't made of richly-veined Olive wood, or brown tuscan leather.

Just kidding.  Please Phase One/Leaf/Mamiya, bring me a CMOS digiback with awesome live-view.  I need a reason to pull out my 4x5 and buy those expensive Rodenstock digital lenses.  I stayed away from MF because of the lack of live-view. 

Thing is, I'm in love with Sigma DP Merrills at the moment.  I don't care about brands.  I'll gladly sell everything to buy whatever makes me want to go out and make images.

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design_freak

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #43 on: January 21, 2014, 02:38:32 pm »

Why wouldn't you?  
They have partnership with Hasselblad...
If everybody could use this sensor, what is special in hasselblad new camera? Probably P1 will make much much better job with hardware and software  8)
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Nick-T

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #44 on: January 21, 2014, 02:44:30 pm »

For those of you just tuning in, Design Freaks signature is supposed to read:

"Embittered ex Hasselblad Dealer"

Must be some sort of glitch.

And now back to our regular programming.
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Steve Hendrix

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #45 on: January 21, 2014, 03:01:49 pm »

I wouldn't make assumptions at this stage about sensor size, or sensor manufacturer (or much else). Just saying.

Not that it would stop you - what fun would that be?  ;D But just like anything else, I wouldn't take the prognostications too seriously.

On another note - one thing that medium format certainly seems to do (lately) is surprise you, - contrasted to Canon/Nikon announcements, which are pretty predictable. When was the last time an Apple product surprised you? Now everyone knows everything before the announcements. There's more demand for people to know about upcoming Apple product announcements today than ever, and it's easier - no matter how hard Apple tries to keep the lid on, too many high scale component partners are involved to keep it secret.

Medium format doesn't have that issue - and things lately have not been expected. I like that.


Steve Hendrix
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Theodoros

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #46 on: January 21, 2014, 03:34:30 pm »

If it is a (more than) double version (37x49?) of the Sony 24mp sensor with the AA filter removed, then, given the extra size high ISO should improve further by one stop… Sounds more like a camera aimed more to wedding photographers than studio… I very much doubt that base Iso colour accuracy and DR will ever much a Dalsa CCD sensor… (even more so the old 33mp one).
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bcooter

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #47 on: January 21, 2014, 03:42:42 pm »


If everybody could use this sensor, what is special in hasselblad new camera? Probably P1 will make much much better job with hardware and software  8)


I have two gh3's and one olympus em5.   Same sensor.  You can set them at the same color temp, same exposure, close to same sharpening, and take a picture, throw them into ANY post processing suite and they look way different.

Not saying one is better than the other, but they look different and it takes a lot of work to make them look identical, so I assume there is more to it than the sensor.

But who cares who makes it?   The good thing is you have more options, though really having this type of discussion is pointless.

Two years ago everybody gave the professional photography world up for dead, but today it's turning and trust me, no vc or money manager would invest in a major upgrade to any product without viewing potential sales.

Personally, I may never own a hasselblad, don't know, but just like everyone in the higher end of photography I want to see success.

It's good for all of us.

Now in reality, no camera will make you a better photographer but advances allow you to do things you couldn't do before.   That's the beauty of it all.

Then again this is early in the process, like all electronics there will be bugs to be worked out, the internet will be ablaze with the I told you so group, but as I mentioned, that group probably wouldn't buy that level of product anyway, so who cares?



IMO

BC
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #48 on: January 21, 2014, 03:51:00 pm »

Hi,

There is a rumour about that. Maybe true. Still we know little, is that an exclusive contract?

Sony could have a much greater part of, Hasselblad may even be using the Bionz ASIC, who knows. Not necessarily P1 does everything better.

We have to wait and see. I would also expect more versions to come from Hasselblad, like a high MP camera.

Best regards
Erik


They have partnership with Hasselblad...
If everybody could use this sensor, what is special in hasselblad new camera? Probably P1 will make much much better job with hardware and software  8)

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Theodoros

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #49 on: January 21, 2014, 04:09:34 pm »

They have partnership with Hasselblad...
If everybody could use this sensor, what is special in hasselblad new camera? Probably P1 will make much much better job with hardware and software  8)

There is no way that a low production huge CMOS sensor will ever be exclusive to one MF maker…  How many cameras are expected to be made from Hasselblad on an annual base? I suspect that the maker (of the sensor -Sony?) wouldn't bother to proceed for Hasselblad alone, I bet that they have the contracts signed already… Also, I suspect that the back will be considerably cheaper… may even be that the sensor will be of 44x33 size, the 36mp sensor of Sony does match for 33x44mm, 50mp pixel size.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2014, 04:34:28 pm by T.Dascalos »
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #50 on: January 21, 2014, 04:17:14 pm »

Hi,

It is very much possible for a company to buy a design from another company. That was the case with Leica buying their CMOS design from CMOSIS. Or it could be that Hasselblad made the design with help of Sony or another company.

Small numbers can be lucrative if the price is high enough.

As a side note, Phase One says that they switched from Kodak to DALSA as DALSA were willing to let them be involved with the sensor design, and Kodak was not. They are no using DALSA sensors but the sensor they use have Phase One intellectual property.

Best regards
Erik


There is no way that a low production huge CMOS sensor will ever be exclusive to one MF maker…  How many cameras are expected to be made from Hasselblad on an annual base? I suspect that the maker (of the sensor -Sony?) wouldn't bother to proceed for Hasselblad alone, I bet that they have the contracts signed already… Also, I suspect that the back will be considerably cheaper… may even be that the sensor will be of 44x33 size, the 36mp sensor of Sony does much for 33x44mm, 50mp pixel size.
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MrSmith

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #51 on: January 21, 2014, 04:29:43 pm »

"I'm with Nick.  How many people started doing a Jim Morrison Karaoke  "this is the end", when the lunar came out, or when live view of medium format wasn't equal to a dslr, or, Nikon made a inexpensive dslr."

£10 says you own a pair of leather trousers and know the words to "this is the end"
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Theodoros

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #52 on: January 21, 2014, 04:52:36 pm »

Hi,

It is very much possible for a company to buy a design from another company. That was the case with Leica buying their CMOS design from CMOSIS. Or it could be that Hasselblad made the design with help of Sony or another company.

Small numbers can be lucrative if the price is high enough.

As a side note, Phase One says that they switched from Kodak to DALSA as DALSA were willing to let them be involved with the sensor design, and Kodak was not. They are no using DALSA sensors but the sensor they use have Phase One intellectual property.

Best regards
Erik


Put it this way, if they felt secure with CMOS, they would have discontinue CCD so that they differentiate from competition… Since they introduce CMOS in parallel to CCDs, 1.They are trying to gain the "first to do…" title, 2. They most probably will use that for entry level…  Believe me they'll be happy if they can add a few customers among "expensive" weddings photographers… they really need them, they may also succeed this time… I have a feeling that studio pros will turn their back to this.  But again, we are all speculating here… so am I.
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torger

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #53 on: January 21, 2014, 04:57:52 pm »

Also, I suspect that the back will be considerably cheaper… may even be that the sensor will be of 44x33 size, the 36mp sensor of Sony does match for 33x44mm, 50mp pixel size.

Does sound quite likely considering the pixel count, if it is exactly 50. The current 49 x 37 is a kodak only size, I find it unlikely that it would be copied exactly. I think the 44x33 size is a bit boring though, just too much crop, I hope the sensor is a little larger.
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Nick-T

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #54 on: January 21, 2014, 05:12:34 pm »

… I have a feeling that studio pros will turn their back to this. 

I'm a studio pro and am very excited about this new camera. Note that Hasselblad have said they will be offering a multi-shot version, hardly targeted at the wedding market..
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Theodoros

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #55 on: January 21, 2014, 05:20:10 pm »

Does sound quite likely considering the pixel count, if it is exactly 50. The current 49 x 37 is a kodak only size, I find it unlikely that it would be copied exactly. I think the 44x33 size is a bit boring though, just too much crop, I hope the sensor is a little larger.
Would Sony design an ultra low production sensor from scratch?  Can't say for sure, but I doubt it…
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uaiomex

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #56 on: January 21, 2014, 05:28:39 pm »

Out of the release::
"It will provide greatly improved Live Video in Phocus "

Does this mean not true LV as in dslr's?
Eduardo


Read more on PhotoRumors.com: http://photorumors.com/2014/01/21/hasselblad-to-announce-h5d-50c-medium-format-camera-with-cmos-sensor/#ixzz2r4gVoAwU

be interesting to see what it comes out £$€'s wise.
either the same or similar to other 50mp backs or a huge price jump justified by live view that is usable like a canon and low noise 400asa and above•

•please dont tell me about sensor+ or current MFD live-view tech, it sucks.
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synn

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #57 on: January 21, 2014, 05:31:07 pm »

Would be hilarious if they do a CF version in phamiya mount.
The world would end shortly from the resulting sh1tstorm of lawsuits.
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Theodoros

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #58 on: January 21, 2014, 05:35:28 pm »

I'm a studio pro and am very excited about this new camera. Note that Hasselblad have said they will be offering a multi-shot version, hardly targeted at the wedding market..
It does make sense though… they have cameras for the studio as they are, why offer another? I don't see any other reason for one to choose a "LL-king" MF camera than (expensive) weddings… It's good advert for Hasselblad too…. MS is also offered as alternative to single shot with CCDs (I use such an MFDB), being able to provide it doesn't make the sensor better or worst, it just adds MS (which is mechanical).  Notice that if the sensor is of 33x44 size, the pixel size matches the one of the D800e (have one of these too)… hardly enough colour accuracy to compete with my MFDB in studio conditions.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2014, 05:43:31 pm by T.Dascalos »
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Theodoros

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #59 on: January 21, 2014, 05:42:49 pm »

Here's the thing
The profits from the Lunar and stellar type cameras will allow Hasselblad to invest in medium format. Only around 10% of Hasselblad people are working on Lunar type products, one can only speculate on what the others are doing :)
The …..profits? :o from lunar and stellar? ??? ….are you sure? :D
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