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Author Topic: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting  (Read 53077 times)

hubell

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2014, 10:48:15 am »

Great news. I was told a while ago to expect a real cracker.

It'll be interesting to see if Phase also have a CMOS solution.

What is a "real cracker"?

torger

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2014, 10:54:36 am »

It seems to me that the CMOS sensor won't change that much for current professional users, which always use these systems with professional lighting etc and would shoot base ISO anyway.

But for an advanced amateur user (a market which is growing) if the high ISO performance makes it possible to shoot hand-held in natural light in a significantly broader extent, it could be a real market opener.

I have myself not bothered to get a H camera for my H back as I would have to shoot from a tripod anyway or use flash lighting (which I'm not too interested in), but say if I could get decent ISO3200 quality that would change. Then I could use the camera even for my indoor private family photos :)
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MrSmith

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2014, 11:16:58 am »

It seems to me that the CMOS sensor won't change that much for current professional users, which always use these systems with professional lighting etc and would shoot base ISO anyway.

what proffessional experience are you basing that on? being able to take less lighting power on location and shoot at 400 with clean MFD files (or even a true 200) would make a big difference to how i work. i appreciate the amateur market is much bigger but from my point of view i see this type of back (if it performs) as an advantage.
hopefully the benefits of MFD but none of the current drawbacks like poor live-view and low sensitivity.
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Emilmedia

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2014, 11:20:41 am »

i hope skin tones stay as good as they've been. If so - this might be the best thing since sliced bread.

EricWHiss

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2014, 11:21:37 am »

What I was really surprised by is that they mention multi-shot capable, which I hope means they were smart about the choice of color filters.   So many of the DSLR's have mitigated color tonality and color texture because they set up the filters for High ISO response instead of color separation.  I'm hoping this will be more like the MF CCD for color.

Now what would make me very excited is if HB would offer this in a CF style mount so it could be fit on different camera platforms.
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thierrylegros396

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Vladimirovich

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2014, 12:11:26 pm »

I am pretty sure AF speed is not tied to CCD or CMOS.
if it is CDAF it is tied to how fast you readout sensels off a particular area vs how noisy that will get in the process + whether your lenses have proper motors to drive the focusing group of optical elements in response to CDAF commands (going back to readout)...
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eronald

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2014, 01:08:53 pm »

if it is CDAF it is tied to how fast you readout sensels off a particular area vs how noisy that will get in the process + whether your lenses have proper motors to drive the focusing group of optical elements in response to CDAF commands (going back to readout)...

Clearly the number of new features they can implement with the help of CMOS depends on the amount of firmware development they can afford to do, and how much they intend to keep in reserve for the H6 and h7 "upgrades".

But this is encouraging, it shows that MF is still alive. I expect we'll see the same sensor in other cameras, first in Phase backs, Pentax 645D series, and Leica.

Edmund
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Nick-T

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2014, 01:17:53 pm »

Would all those who said that Hasselblad were finished and had abandoned MF when they launched the Lunar and Stellar please put their hands up?

Thanks very much.

Nick-T
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design_freak

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2014, 01:22:25 pm »



But this is encouraging, it shows that MF is still alive. I expect we'll see the same sensor in other cameras, first in Phase backs, Pentax 645D series, and Leica.

Edmund

Why ? Why you expect that Sony will sell it to Phase and others???
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eronald

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #30 on: January 21, 2014, 01:27:21 pm »

Why ? Why you expect that Sony will sell it to Phase and others???

Sony's sensor division is a major profit center AFAIK, they sell sensors to all comers, sometimes with a delay.

Edmund
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eronald

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2014, 01:28:33 pm »

Would all those who said that Hasselblad were finished and had abandoned MF when they launched the Lunar and Stellar please put their hands up?

Thanks very much.

Nick-T

Those less wholeheartedly in favor of Hassy are allowed to just put up a single finger :)

Edmund
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torger

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2014, 01:37:11 pm »

what proffessional experience are you basing that on? being able to take less lighting power on location and shoot at 400 with clean MFD files (or even a true 200) would make a big difference to how i work.

I'm basing it on the experience of professionals on this forum that over and over again says that the MF poor high ISO does not really matter ;D. But sure, you're probably right, rising the really clean ISO one or two stops can have a real impact too, reducing weight of on location gear as you say.

However if the ISO is as good as a decent DSLR you could get good quality without any artificial lighting at all, which opens up for a much broader field of use. In the professional space I guess wedding photography could make use of a high ISO MF camera that won't need artificial lighting, or any other genre that needs high ISO but not necessarily DSLR-style autofocus.

I hope that the new features CMOS provides will actually lead to that MF starts to be used in spaces currently occupied with DSLRs, ie more than just making life easier for those already in the game.
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Dustbak

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2014, 01:39:23 pm »

Those less wholeheartedly in favor of Hassy are allowed to just put up a single finger :)

Edmund


That kind of depends on what finger you have in mind...
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torger

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #34 on: January 21, 2014, 01:43:27 pm »

Would all those who said that Hasselblad were finished and had abandoned MF when they launched the Lunar and Stellar please put their hands up?

I was sure worried about the company's future, and I still am. Hasseblad is not exactly at its peak these days, but I do hope they can start growing again, and I still do hope that they will succeed making their core business in the MF space and that the Lunar/Stellar/Ferrari silly luxury stuff will be a parenthesis in the long-term. I'm not particularly fond of that the brand is becoming associated with cheap-looking rip-off "luxury" products, rather than real photography. A broader success in the MF space maybe can change that.

Now if they just could honor their legacy V-system with a 56x56mm digital back, in color and black and white versions. That would be something.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2014, 01:48:21 pm by torger »
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hubell

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2014, 01:54:34 pm »

Those less wholeheartedly in favor of Hassy are allowed to just put up a single finger :)

Edmund

Your response has the virtue of candor. 

Nick-T

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #36 on: January 21, 2014, 01:55:18 pm »

Here's the thing
The profits from the Lunar and stellar type cameras will allow Hasselblad to invest in medium format. Only around 10% of Hasselblad people are working on Lunar type products, one can only speculate on what the others are doing :)
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bcooter

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #37 on: January 21, 2014, 01:55:56 pm »

Why ? Why you expect that Sony will sell it to Phase and others???

Why wouldn't you?   Sony sells to direct competitors like Nikon and Olympus and just about everyone and do you actually know the financial arrangements?

I'm with Nick.  How many people started doing a Jim Morrison Karaoke  "this is the end", when the lunar came out, or when live view of medium format wasn't equal to a dslr, or, Nikon made a inexpensive dslr.

I'm a professional image maker and the more tools the better, the healthier our industry the better, the more buzz about cameras and photography the better.

There are companies where I know the principles and some personalities I like more than others, some brands more than others, but I would never wish bad upon any of them, that's just not how the world works.

So I don't see any negatives to any of this, but the people with less than positive comments probably aren't the market Hasselblad sells to anyway.

Of course the web pundits, being the web will try to find something, but a new addition to professional still photography is great.

I think we all knew that larger format cmos was coming which is one of the reasons I bought an S2 because I like CCDs but that's me and if turns out the new cmos series is better then I'll look at it.

But there is no downside to this regardless of price, or pixel count.

I'm sure the 35mm world will respond with 30 or 40 mpx and the conversation will continue on which format is best, which I think is a silly conversation, but the result is this takes the focus away from all the negative rumors about Hasselblad.

Next I'm sure Phase/Leaf and Leica/Sinar will respond and it can only add more options.

It also takes away the rumors about the demise of larger than 35mm cameras.  

One dealer Capture Integration is growing across the U.S., so high end photographic equipment is progressing, not declining and I'm sure other dealers are positioning themselves for growth also.

I hope next we hear more from Pentax/Ricoh because the 645d was a great start.

Let's hope the progression continues that cmos brings the advent of evfs, maybe even motion imagery in one system.   

IMO

BC
« Last Edit: January 21, 2014, 02:01:09 pm by bcooter »
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Nick-T

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #38 on: January 21, 2014, 01:57:50 pm »

Here's another thing.

Nikon does pretty good high ISO with it's Sony chips right? Would it be nice for a professional to have that sort of high ISO performance in medium format?
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design_freak

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Re: MF CMOS -- now it gets interesting
« Reply #39 on: January 21, 2014, 02:18:38 pm »

Here's the thing
The profits from the Lunar and stellar type cameras will allow Hasselblad to invest in medium format. Only around 10% of Hasselblad people are working on Lunar type products, one can only speculate on what the others are doing :)

There are so many people with no taste?  LOL
good for business, but it's scary for the world ...


10%? How many people???
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