Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0

[Steve Hendrix]

How many working pros require 80 mega pixels? Hell, my CF 39MS has satisfied every professional requirement that I've had. If I were a rich guy with a passion for high-end toys...

Wait, you shoot 39 megapixel multi shot images. Bob, of all people, you should understand the need for the resolution. There are working pros who will benefit from and purchase this product. It doesn't matter how many - there's enough to justify producing it (along with the other segments that it is ideal for). And it is not the only megapixel size available, there are smaller models to choose from. Why place a limit?

And I even forgot about the very strong side benefit of the 80MP, which is that this is a Sensor Plus product, meaning you can shoot 20MP at higher ISO (and still use the entire 645-sized sensor).

I am considering a blog entitled "New High ISO 20MP, 645 Full Frame Digital Back with High Rez Option". Not really, but considering photographers have for years requested a full frame 645, 22MP sensor that shoots high ISO with a good LCD, why not? 


Steve Hendrix

[EricWHiss]

Wow! Really looks like an improvement in usability!   

Is the sensor in the IQ180 the same as in the Aptus 12 and besides the sensor plus stuff and interface will there be any differences in image quality between the two?

[bcooter]

..............snip.................
I am considering a blog entitled "New High ISO 20MP, 645 Full Frame Digital Back with High Rez Option". Not really, but considering photographers have for years requested a full frame 645, 22MP sensor that shoots high ISO with a good LCD, why not?  

Steve,

You're 100% right 22 mpx that goes to high iso and a readable lcd has been asked for a long time . . . think 2005 . . ., but now Canon did it for a few grand.

This is a whole new world and the professional image making biz can still be very profitable, but it takes a lot of thinking, networking, and maximizing resources in ways we never dreamed of.

All you professional  medium format owners out there raise your hands . . . who doesn't own a canon and/or nikon?

I'm glad Phase redid their backs, see it as a positive, but I don't consider it anywhere near a breakthrough, not at 20 to 40 large.

I'm sure you'll sell em, I'm sure a lot of people will rent em', but to invest that amount it takes today comes a big gulp of where it leads you, because remember for about the same price you can get a full blown motion camera and throw a 5d2 into your bag for the stills the client requests.

IMO

BC

P.S.  I think I'll do a blog (actually don't worry I'll probably never do a blog cause I don't think anyone cares what I have for breakfast), but if I did do a blog I would call it, I use to say hold it, now I say rolling . . .speed . . .action.

Cut.

[design_freak]

Way ahead of you! The Phase One IQ series ALSO has physical buttons from which you can access nearly all the same functions as by touch. Great for working with gloves or in a dirty environment.

As far as nose smudges your nose/holding-style may vary from mine, but for me the current P+ sits to the right of my nose (I shoot with my right eye) when shooting horizontal and completely out of the way when shooting vertical with all four major camera bodies I've used. Since the IQ series is roughly the same physical dimensions I'm guessing it won't be any problem (for my nose at least).

Apple is a near black hole when it comes to reliable info about their future products. But from my research it seems very likely the next generation of Apple laptops will have USB3 ports and a near sure bet they will have EITHER USB3 or FW800. Either way you can use the back at a very high tethering speed. I guess you can find something to complain about in any decision, but given that this is the only camera to take advantage of USB3 (backwards compatible to USB2) and also has FW800 (backwards compatible to FW400) it's really hard to see where you're complaining about it.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________

Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One Partner of the Year
Leaf, Leica, Cambo, Arca Swiss, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Broncolor, Eizo & More

National: 877.217.9870  |  Cell: 740.707.2183
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Dear Doug,
I am quite analytical. I see some risks that you can not see. I would not buy this DB, and then find out that the manufacturer made a mistake and did not foresee that the new MacBook Pro has no connectors (FW and USB 3.0) I will spend a lot of money, and stay with the problem. (I will not be able to use my camera.) So I wait for Apple step. I hope that I will not have to wait until Q3 2011.
Do not you think that "Light Peak" technology would be more development?

[Doug Peterson]

I just gave the link a quick glance, but I didn't see what camera platforms it supports other than the Mamiya.

The 4 grand warranty thing still bugs me, but I guess it bothers a lot of people.  Before I wrote that one out, I think I'd add a rider to my insurance policy that covered breakage.

The back includes a 1-year warranty. A five year warranty comes out to $1k/year for the four years it extends the warranty, plus provides a loaner during the duration of any repairs. I find that very reasonable.

I guess they could have charged $4k more for each model and made the 5-year warranty standard, but personally I much prefer the flexibility of getting to decide if it's worth the additional cost. Especially when a particular photographer may want to go the path you suggest and use other forms of insurance to provide for their needs.

To each his own.

[Doug Peterson]

Is the sensor in the IQ180 the same as in the Aptus 12 and besides the sensor plus stuff and interface will there be any differences in image quality between the two?

I think it's possible Phase will sneak a bit longer exposures (as in 15-30 seconds more) than the Aptus II 12 as they have typically gotten the most out of any mnfr from any given sensor. It's also possible that the revised electronics package (they said explicitly there is not a single piece of electronics that was not swapped out) might sneak a hair more DR. Up in the air until we get production models (est. April).

And of course the IQ180 has Sensor Plus for 20mp higher ISO and faster shooting which is a Phase-Only feature.

But for most applications the image quality will likely be nearly identical. Only a head to head test with a production model will tell for sure. This makes the Aptus II 12 a great option for those who want max resolution and image quality and are willing to compromise on some usability features to lower their cost of entry. Also the Aptus II 12 has some unique features like a rotatable sensor on the V and AFi mount backs).

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________

Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One Partner of the Year
Leaf, Leica, Cambo, Arca Swiss, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Broncolor, Eizo & More

National: 877.217.9870  |  Cell: 740.707.2183
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Buy Capture One 6 at 10% off

[Erick Boileau]

Wait, you shoot 39 megapixel multi shot images. Bob, of all people, you should understand the need for the resolution. There are working pros who will benefit from and purchase this product. It doesn't matter how many - there's enough to justify producing it (along with the other segments that it is ideal for). And it is not the only megapixel size available, there are smaller models to choose from. Why place a limit?

because the files are heavy for nothing when you don't need it , and many of us don't need it,  the IQ140 has a crop 1.3 it is not a FF
it is necessary to know your own limits depending on your needs

[EricWHiss]

I'm not worried about a 5 year warrantee because before its up there will be the IQ500 out and ready for trade ins.  And anyhow what goes wrong with the backs over time? Either they are perfect out of the box or they aren't so 1 year is good enough to handle that if you get one with a line or banding or whatnot.  At least my impression is the probs mostly show up right away not failing over time.  I don't really consider the backs failing over time.

[Doug Peterson]

I am quite analytical. I see some risks that you can not see. I would not buy this DB, and then find out that the manufacturer made a mistake and did not foresee that the new MacBook Pro has no connectors (FW and USB 3.0) I will spend a lot of money, and stay with the problem. (I will not be able to use my camera.) So I wait for Apple step. I hope that I will not have to wait until Q3 2011.
Do not you think that "Light Peak" technology would be more development?

This series has more flexible tethering options (USB2/USB3/FW400/FW800) than any other camera in existence (let along digital back). I really cannot see your point.

[Steve Hendrix]

because the files are heavy for nothing when you don't need it , and many of us don't need it,  the IQ140 has a crop 1.3 it is not a FF
it is necessary to know your own limits depending on your needs

Erick, you and I always get into these megapixel discussions. I'm with you, sir. A photographer absolutely must know what tools he needs for the job in terms of his client's expectations and his own demands. Where we part ways is that I don't believe a manufacturer should create products that only meet the needs of some of their client base. While the photographers who need 80MP may be small, the actual revenue produced from those photographers probably exceeds the revenues from the less expensive 40MP product, even though (theoretically) one might presume $20K products sell in more quantity than $40K product. So for Phase One to not address this market doesn't make any sense. It's a substantial market for them. And if they only offered 80MP products, then, I could see the issue, but there are lower megapixel products available (P40+, P65+). Yes, the P40+ is a cropped sensor. But if you're asking for a small number of megapixels on a large sensor, that will never happen for quality reasons.


Steve Hendrix

[Steve Hendrix]

Very short sighted about "what they could have..."

What they could have and should have done is a 2-3 year minimum standard warranty at no additional price if they really stand behind the product they ship out the door at that price point. We're not talking laptops, HDTVs and other shit like that. We're not talking $2500 5DII's. We're talking about a f*&king $44K item, you know like a car, a boat, we don't see those with 1 year warranties. Hasselblad and others need to do the same.

Innovation is not just 1's and 0's, it's also business models, policies and offerings that customers view as acceptable. A 12 month warranty is not acceptable at that price point. These backs have been proven to survive being frozen in elephant dung. No wait, sorry. Frozen, check. Stepped on by elephants, check. 1 year warranty, that's the dung.

If failure rates are low then absorb the small hit instead of raking in cash created out of false fear from your customer. The world economies have changed. Business as usual will only go so far.

They have made the decision to not offer extended warranties standard and instead, provide the pricing without it. Bear in mind you have the option of adding less expensive single year extended warranty periods if you don't wish to add a full 5 year warranty. Additional one year warranties have ranged from $699 - $999 for all previous models, though we don't yet have single year, extended warranty pricing confirmed yet on the IQ Series.


Steve Hendrix

[Erick Boileau]

But if you're asking for a small number of megapixels on a large sensor, that will never happen for quality reasons.
Steve Hendrix

there is of course a market for a FF with 40 MP, many of us want it
40 MP on a FF  will  work very well, and I like big pixels for quality reasons

[Steve Hendrix]

there is of course a market for a FF with 40 MP, many of us want it
40 MP on a FF  will  work very well, and I like big pixels for quality reasons

Phase One began the (close as you can get) full frame sensor series with the 60MP P65+. Now there is 80MP. You're saying they should go back to 40MP? So, 40MP, full frame for $3,000 less than the IQ60? And you would buy this product?


Steve Hendrix

[Erick Boileau]

Phase One began the (close as you can get) full frame sensor series with the 60MP P65+. Now there is 80MP. You're saying they should go back to 40MP? So, 40MP, full frame for $3,000 less than the IQ60? And you would buy this product?


Steve Hendrix

it will be cheaper of course

[Steve Hendrix]

it will be cheaper of course

Yes, would you buy it?


Steve Hendrix

[Erick Boileau]

Yes, would you buy it?

Steve Hendrix

YES   I have sold my H1 and P45 but  I shall buy  a modern FF MF 40 MP  with good screen and good batteries, I shall take it at once, but I don't spoil 25000 euros for something that I don't want

But if you're asking for a small number of megapixels on a large sensor, that will never happen for quality reasons.

I guess a P45+ or P25+  with 39 MP was not  good quality DB in you opinion ?

[Steve Hendrix]

YES   I have sold my H1 and P45 but  I shall buy  a modern FF MF 40 MP  with good screen and good batteries
 I guess a P45+  wis 39 MP was not a good quality DB in you opinion ?

That was a larger sensor than the P40+. Why didn't you buy it? And in some ways, P40+ is a better quality file.

Are you saying that if you had the choice of IQ160 at $36,990 or the same exact product and sensor except only 40MP's, for $33,990, you would buy the 40MP version?


Steve Hendrix

[Erick Boileau]

$33,990 is too expensive for a 40 MP, far too much, for that price I can get a Leica S2 + lenses

I don't want 60 MP even at 5000 euro I shall not take it , never !  what shall I do with 60 MP ? 

[JV]

Has the upgrade cost from P30+ to IQ140 already been determined?

Also, will there be any change in upgrade cost from P30+ to P40+?

Thanks, Joris.

[Doug Peterson]

$33,990 is too expensive for a 40 MP, far too much, for that price I can get a Leica S2 + lenses

You misread. Phase One IQ140 is $21,990.

The S2 is also a good camera. But they are fairly dissimilar systems so it's kind of hard to compare in general (only for a specific person's needs/wants).

Has the upgrade cost from P30+ to IQ140 already been determined?

Also, will there be any change in upgrade cost from P30+ to P40+?

Phase One IQ Series Upgrade Promotion for the first quarter of the year places that upgrade from a P30+ to a IQ140 at $15,330.

Steve: P30+ to P40+?

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________

Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One Partner of the Year
Leaf, Leica, Cambo, Arca Swiss, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Broncolor, Eizo & More

National: 877.217.9870  |  Cell: 740.707.2183
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