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Author Topic: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0  (Read 98057 times)

ondebanks

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs
« Reply #40 on: January 24, 2011, 10:23:55 am »

Sounds like the Phase One IQ140 is perfect for you :-).

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)


Doug - the 40MP version is the same sensor as in the P40+? Aw, CRAP!

My heart sank when I saw your page say that all the new IQ backs have "Sensor+".

Sensor+ = DALSA = no long exposures (beyond 1 minute)   >:(

 ...AND...

DALSA 40MP = no microlenses = low ISO at full resolution.  :(

WTF are PhaseOne not using the best 40MP chip out there - the Kodak one used by Pentax and Hasselblad?

What a missed opportunity!
Beautiful screen and all that, just a very 2nd rate sensor!
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arashm

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #41 on: January 24, 2011, 10:33:44 am »

So what's happening with the prices for the current P backs
ie P30+ and the P40+  ???
thank you
am
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Rudy Torres

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #42 on: January 24, 2011, 10:45:54 am »

I am looking at the image of the bottom. There is a small door. Is that the battery chamber and how long will the battery last untethered?

- Rudy
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #43 on: January 24, 2011, 10:59:07 am »

I am looking at the image of the bottom. There is a small door. Is that the battery chamber and how long will the battery last untethered?

Yes. Phase reports battery life will be the about the same as the P+ series. I would wait until we (Capture Integration) can do extended real world testing though since battery life is highly dependent on LCD use.

Also: Battery charges while tethered to FW. Neat little feature.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs
« Reply #44 on: January 24, 2011, 11:16:18 am »

Doug - the 40MP version is the same sensor as in the P40+? Aw, CRAP!

My heart sank when I saw your page say that all the new IQ backs have "Sensor+".

Sensor+ = DALSA = no long exposures (beyond 1 minute)   >:(

 ...AND...

DALSA 40MP = no microlenses = low ISO at full resolution.  :(

WTF are PhaseOne not using the best 40MP chip out there - the Kodak one used by Pentax and Hasselblad?

What a missed opportunity!
Beautiful screen and all that, just a very 2nd rate sensor!

I can't imagine you really think it's a "second rate sensor". It is the same specs (but 1.3x cropped) as the Phase One P65+ sensor which is widely regarded as having the highest dynamic range of any camera (Phase/Leaf claim the 80mp sensor adds another approx. 1/3 stop but until I've tested I'm skeptical).

The major decision is to make a back which can only be used on SLRs (strong micro lenses) but gains one stop of ISO, or to make a back which can be used on any kind of camera (weak micro lenses) such as a technical camera or view camera. The later provides access to more markets, provides the photographer great assurance of future-proofing if they start working in areas of photography (like product/still-life/architecture/interior/landscape) and will also likely help hold up the value of the camera when you go to sell it second hand.

Neither path is universally better - like anything it's a compromise.

The Sensor+ mode provides up to ISO3200 - higher than the Kodak version can go. For a P40+ this is at 10mp (the IQ180 it is 20mp in sensor+ mode) which is still plenty for many applications.

The Dalsa sensor coupled with the Phase architecture also allows faster readout allowing for faster shooting. For many fashion/portrait shooters this is no small thing since they want to be able to capture expressions and moments. A Phase One IQ140 can capture 70ish frames per minute (significantly faster than the H4D-40 or Pentax) in full resolution and over 100 frames per minute in sensor+ mode.

There are also many photographers who, after testing, simply prefer the look of the Dalsa sensor over the Kodak sensor, especially regarding skin tones and tonal smoothness. That's something you'd want to investigate for yourself as it's a very subjective thing.

Each of these products from Phase, Hassy, and Pentax have their strengths and weaknesses. That's why they are all in the marketplace.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #45 on: January 24, 2011, 11:22:36 am »

Doug, why have an iPhone 3g even mentioned in the chart? 2 year old product, 2 generations back. Odd for comparison. iPhone 4 would have a larger bar and I guess that truth is too hard to swallow, so morphing reality helps to sell things.

Basic marketing.

I don't think it's deceptive - in the article I link to wikipedia article with a running list of display's sorted by resolution. Actually the LCD of the iPhone 4 has a PPI of 326 - just 12% higher than a Phase One IQ. Being within 12% of the iPhone 4 LCD is pretty impressive to me, given that it's widely regarded as it is often referenced as the best LCD of any mobile device*

Regardless the more pertinent comparison is probably to other digital backs and in this regard there is absolutely no comparison. This is by far the best digital back LCD on the market.

Anyway, it only took 6-7 years for Phase to get this display. Phase will hold that top LCD spot for only a few months until the next bump from Canon/Nikon. Short lived. The higher quality screen will be greatly appreciated and the griping will most likely quell.

I would imagine that by the end of 2011 either Canon or Nikon will come out with a pro or semi pro (more likely) camera with an LCD with (slightly) better specs. That won't make the LCD on the Phase One IQ any less amazing.

It's fair to let them have their day in saying it's the best LCD of any camera.

This is sort of a threshold moment (in my opinion) for camera LCDs. Up until now they've been not good but getting better.

Once you've hit the 300ish PPI mark, and the LCD takes up the majority of the rear part of the digital back there is not much more that can be imagined to make the screen better except ramp the brightness up even more. So I strongly suspect that even in 5 years the LCD on the Phase One IQ will be considered very good.

Just my opinion.

*gotta feel bad for the LG-LU1400 which technically has a higher PPI LCD

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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« Last Edit: January 24, 2011, 11:47:51 am by dougpetersonci »
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Graham Mitchell

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #46 on: January 24, 2011, 11:41:03 am »

Back sounds great. Pity that it doesn't work with my first, second or even third choice of camera platform!
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Steve Hendrix

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #47 on: January 24, 2011, 11:44:11 am »

The new design and specs seem quite good. I do believe these new backs will be great products, produce superb image quality.

Price is just silly. I'm sure tons of these new backs will sell, but come on, $44K just to make a still picture. It just snaps a pic. Add another $15-20K for lenses and accessories, just to make a photo. A standard 1 year warranty is abhorrent at that price point. Get some balls and provide a standard multi year warranty.

Doug, why have an iPhone 3g even mentioned in the chart? 2 year old product, 2 generations back. Odd for comparison. iPhone 4 would have a larger bar and I guess that truth is too hard to swallow, so morphing reality helps to sell things. Anyway, it only took 6-7 years for Phase to get this display. Phase will hold that top LCD spot for only a few months until the next bump from Canon/Nikon. Short lived. The higher quality screen will be greatly appreciated and the griping will most likely quell.




http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/technology/efficientdynamics/phase_1/model_5series_sedan_520d.html

Just to get from one place to another.


Actually, the resolution of the retina display of the IQ Series is similar to the iPhone 4G, so the graph would show them about the same level. So, I agree, why not show the iPhone 4G instead of the 3G, since the screen is so awesome? We'd be better served that way!


Steve Hendrix


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vjbelle

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #48 on: January 24, 2011, 12:07:55 pm »

I have not seen anywhere on the Phase site anything regarding connectivity with USB 3.0.  This would be a leap forward for Phase as FW is on its way out.  I have an email in to my dealer (Capture Integration) regarding upgrade paths for my P45.  Have yet to hear from them.... will see how all of this shakes out. 
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JDG

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #49 on: January 24, 2011, 12:09:37 pm »

Back sounds great. Pity that it doesn't work with my first, second or even third choice of camera platform!
What's your 3rd choice?  I assume your first two are Rollei 6008 and Hy6...  ;)

Based on the data sheets it looks like the IQ will be in the standard H, V, M and C mounts
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #50 on: January 24, 2011, 12:18:11 pm »

I have not seen anywhere on the Phase site anything regarding connectivity with USB 3.0.  This would be a leap forward for Phase as FW is on its way out.  I have an email in to my dealer (Capture Integration) regarding upgrade paths for my P45.  Have yet to hear from them.... will see how all of this shakes out. 

Lol, "have yet to hear from them" as in the last 3 hours? The three sales guys can't get off the phones from people putting down deposits. They will get back to you ASAP though - we're very appreciative of the chance to have your business!

In the meanwhile the upgrade path for a P45 is defined in our Phase One IQ Upgrade Prices Promotion blog entry.
P45 gives you 45% off the purchase of an IQ160 or IQ180. There will also be a cross-grade price to the IQ140 but that isn't finalized yet.

USB3: YES!
FW800: YES!
Backwards compatible to USB2 (think netbooks/macbook air): YES!
Backwards compatible to FW400: YES!

Phase One IQ Tethering Options

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #51 on: January 24, 2011, 12:18:45 pm »

One of the great features of Leaf backs for tech camera users is that you can input the lens mm into the exif data before you take the picture, and is included in all files until you change it - a real lifesaver knowing what lens was used so I know which LCC file is needed. Is there anything like this with the new Phase backs?

That's a great question and wasn't covered in any of the presentations in person or by the web - I don't know but I'll get back to you as soon as I can!

Edit: Heard back from Phase One (boy are they quick!), basic answer is "maybe". Sorry it's not a yes or a no, but with the back not shipping until April there are a few features that are still "maybes".
« Last Edit: January 24, 2011, 12:22:43 pm by dougpetersonci »
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #52 on: January 24, 2011, 12:21:00 pm »

Based on the data sheets it looks like the IQ will be in the standard H, V, M and C mounts

Confirmed. Though the M mounts will be first to ship. V/H/C will be close behind.

design_freak

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #53 on: January 24, 2011, 12:24:03 pm »

Do you like the traces of the fingers on your I phone? (even iphone 4) I hate that. Cool technology, but in my opinion, misconceived idea. It's not a toy, a tool for the professional. Imagine how this display will look like after an hour of work. Not only that the fingers will touch the screen, it will be shooting touch your nose and the rest of the face of this beautiful display. Photographer should focus on their work and not wipe the screen from time to time. The decision to move to FW800 also amazes me. Apple withdraw from this standard for the Light Peak ... Since the MacBook Pro will not have a FW connector to which we attach this lovely camera? My idol, Stave Jobs is not in favor of USB 3.0. So the more I do not understand this step. Nice toy, but not worth the money ...
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vjbelle

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #54 on: January 24, 2011, 12:35:15 pm »

Jeez, a little edgy there Doug..... I simply stated the facts - it was not a criticism.  Calm down!
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #55 on: January 24, 2011, 12:37:06 pm »

Do you like the traces of the fingers on your I phone? (even iphone 4) I hate that. Cool technology, but in my opinion, misconceived idea. It's not a toy, a tool for the professional. Imagine how this display will look like after an hour of work. Not only that the fingers will touch the screen, it will be shooting touch your nose and the rest of the face of this beautiful display. Photographer should focus on their work and not wipe the screen from time to time. The decision to move to FW800 also amazes me. Apple withdraw from this standard for the Light Peak ... Since the MacBook Pro will not have a FW connector to which we attach this lovely camera? My idol, Stave Jobs is not in favor of USB 3.0. So the more I do not understand this step. Nice toy, but not worth the money ...

Way ahead of you! The Phase One IQ series ALSO has physical buttons from which you can access nearly all the same functions as by touch. Great for working with gloves or in a dirty environment.

As far as nose smudges your nose/holding-style may vary from mine, but for me the current P+ sits to the right of my nose (I shoot with my right eye) when shooting horizontal and completely out of the way when shooting vertical with all four major camera bodies I've used. Since the IQ series is roughly the same physical dimensions I'm guessing it won't be any problem (for my nose at least).

Apple is a near black hole when it comes to reliable info about their future products. But from my research it seems very likely the next generation of Apple laptops will have USB3 ports and a near sure bet they will have EITHER USB3 or FW800. Either way you can use the back at a very high tethering speed. I guess you can find something to complain about in any decision, but given that this is the only camera to take advantage of USB3 (backwards compatible to USB2) and also has FW800 (backwards compatible to FW400) it's really hard to see where you're complaining about it.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #56 on: January 24, 2011, 12:39:01 pm »

Jeez, a little edgy there Doug..... I simply stated the facts - it was not a criticism.  Calm down!

VJbelle, I was joking around. "a whole three hours?"  ;D

Sometimes writing doesn't convey intonation very well. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #57 on: January 24, 2011, 12:46:03 pm »

Basic marketing. ......snip........the majority of the rear part of the digital back there is not much more that can be imagined to make the screen better except ramp the brightness up even more. So I strongly suspect that even in 5 years the LCD on the Phase One IQ will be considered very good.



I just gave the link a quick glance, but I didn't see what camera platforms it supports other than the Mamiya.

I assume the first roll out of this is the phase/mamiya camera, then probably the H.

If it hits the shelves in a Hasselblad H mount quickly, then I can see these being a pretty decent rental camera, though this is 2011, not 2007 and the economics are much different today than they were 3.2 years ago.

With all due respect the LCD is needed, but does that mean there is a large preview imbedded in the raw, or does it produce a stand alone jpeg?

If it was 2007, I and a lot of others would be all over this, but today, it takes a lot to move someone and as I've said before I believe this is the basis of the next camera platform. 



No mirror box, no prism, just big ol' honking lcds.

Leaf had a good idea with that swivel out lcd and RED's Epic has a swivel lcd which goes a long way to working in tight quarters.

It also goes a long way in taking the constant bend the neck pose of every photographer that peers into an lcd that is mounted rigid on a camera.

That way it won't look like we're shooting a crime scene on csi and probably will cut down on my neck massage bills.



I'm not complaining and if I was buying a still only camera and it comes in an H mount, or contax mount I might be interested.  If it came with native higher iso at full rez I'd be a lot more interested.

The 4 grand warranty thing still bugs me, but I guess it bothers a lot of people.  Before I wrote that one out, I think I'd add a rider to my insurance policy that covered breakage.

Still you just know that real innovation is around the corner, where we have touch screen focus tracking, wireless something to remote view screens and a whole bunch of other stuff that will come for 40 to 50 large.

But . . . you'll never please everybody.   I had a friend drop by and see my RED and he said "hey, why can't I see an image on the lcd on the back of the camera?"   I said "hey man that's just for settings, but I have two 5.6" high def monitors mounted on this thing and since to get to the back of the RED ONE you have to walk 30 yards, why does it matter?"

His response . . . "yea but why not put a lcd on the back of the camera?, so to each his own.

IMO

BC
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BobDavid

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #58 on: January 24, 2011, 12:46:54 pm »

How many working pros require 80 mega pixels? Hell, my CF 39MS has satisfied every professional requirement that I've had. If I were a rich guy with a passion for high-end toys...
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Graham Mitchell

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #59 on: January 24, 2011, 01:03:04 pm »

What's your 3rd choice?  I assume your first two are Rollei 6008 and Hy6...  ;)

You assume correctly ;) My third platform would be the H...unlocked. I wouldn't want to switch to an H/P1 solution only to be locked out of the new bodies and lenses. Phase still has the problem of having great backs but not a great selection of cameras to use them on. (Clearly people are very divided on the M).
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