Leica S2 Pricing

[PeterA]

DUDE - Seals photos were being displayed on the giant screen behind him as he was speaking....

the idea of using him was actually quite good the internet presentation of teh live show was ordinary.

[telyt]

We have the Phase P65+ now. That is the best thing going... not the S2.

Really?  You've compared them?  Or have you just read the spec sheets?

[amsp]

I think the S2 and especially the m9 look like really interesting cameras, I just wish Leica would steer themselves more towards the professionals and less towards the wealthy hobbyist, both in pricing and brand-building. It would make for a healthier market and more credible image, and I'm pretty sure it would make financial sense in the long run too. JMHO.

[pcunite]

Really?  You've compared them?  Or have you just read the spec sheets?

Obviously I have not compared them... the S2 is still at Paradise Ranch getting prepped for public disclosure.

[rogan]

http://www.pdnpulse.com/2009/09/seal-heart...e-leica-s2.html

Leica's found their slice of the market here.

Wonder if he leased his?

What a joke.

All he needs now is a sweater wrapped around his shoulders, with the arms tied into a knot, and he'd be ready. He's already donned the safari jacket.

Sadly, I trust Seal and his passion much more than I do the "Career is over so to make a living my opinion is for sale if you put me on retainer" photographers that Epson/Adobe and others hire. Epson/Adobe simply do not get it. When I hear these "has beens" shilling it makes me run the other way. At least Leica doesn't expect me to take Seal seriously.

[JonRoemer]

but there is an obvious joke there...

Sadly, I trust Seal and his passion much more than I do the "Career is over so to make a living my opinion is for sale if you put me on retainer" photographers that Epson/Adobe and others hire. Epson/Adobe simply do not get it. When I hear these "has beens" shilling it makes me run the other way. At least Leica doesn't expect me to take Seal seriously.

I think Leica just wanted be able to put in print that the S2 had the seal of approval.  An underling in Germany was given the task of translating seal from German to English, they used Google Translate, and out came Seal.

Thank you, thank you very much...  I'm here till Thursday, try the veal, and don't forget to tip your waitresses.

[AlDoori]

Yes, this is one of the thing one learns with digital MF: If you use natural light, you need hi-Iso or else your handheld shots are blurred. Of course shooters here care less because they use studio flash. I'd say they would still profit from Hi-Iso if they do location work because every stop ISO means less rental fees and easier transportation and setup for lights.

this is a common misunderstanding.
low iso with a lot of light compared to high iso in low light is the same exposure, but a different look.

[Nemo]

Leica is updating their S2 website:

http://www.s.leica-camera.com/havanna/

[pcunite]

Leica is updating their S2 website:

Thank you for the heads up. A camera for the working professional...

[marcs]

I would throw myself into Leica's target demographic with one promise - that S2 lenses will fit on future S bodies with larger sensors.  Perhaps Leica engineers will use the same sensor expanding trick they employed with the M8 to M9 to accomplish this.  

With digital sensor technology improving so rapidly I do not see many professional photographers, conscientious or not, desiring non modular or non upgradable systems - particularly as Phase One will likely introduce something bigger, better and faster than the P65+ in 2010.  

No doubt the S2 is a beautiful piece of work.  I hope Leica exceeds their sales projections.

[Doug Peterson]

With digital sensor technology improving so rapidly I do not see many professional photographers, conscientious or not, desiring non modular or non upgradable systems - particularly as Phase One will likely introduce something bigger, better and faster than the P65+ in 2010.

Just poking my nose in to say that digital backs require sensors, and sensor technology occurs in steps first-and-foremost controlled my micron size. It's very unlikely Kodak or Dalsa will introduce large CCDs with smaller than 6 micron pixels in 2010.

Therefore the full-frame 6-micron P65+ will likely be the king of the 645 world for a considerable time. Also, even if/when something else comes out with more _____ it's unlikely the P65+ image quality will be considered "sub-par" for a long... long time. Every 8x10 shooter we've done the comparisons with has either purchased or are just waiting to see their end-of-year tax situation to purchase.

Doug Peterson
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[gwhitf]

What do photos like these tell me about this new camera, nothing. Several have dropped in backgrounds. Nice pics but any high end camera can do that. At what point will marketing cameras finally entail visual queues/reasons as to why "we" should buy a camera.

I agree. And I agree with Master Cooter -- what a truly bizarre way to advertise a camera system. Could have been shot at Pier 59 with Broderson Backdrops hanging on CStands. But maybe the Catering was Cuban.

It just makes you shake your head. Millions of dollars and millions of hours from hard working engineers devising this camera, then they hire some cheesey model, take her to Cuba, and try to make some story out of it, and the most that's shown is the Malecon in the background, out of focus and two stops under? Really weird, but if Seal likes it, then I guess I'll buy one.

There oughtta be a law, if you advertise a camera and show samples, then absolutely no retouching allowed, and all the settings on the camera left on default. Just develop the RAW with everything on zero, convert it to CMYK, and stick it in the ad. And if you show the camera body, then no monkey business with stripping in a fake LCD screen image either. Show the product; show what you're selling.

[pcunite]

What do photos like these tell me about this new camera, nothing. Several have dropped in backgrounds. Nice pics but any high end camera can do that. At what point will marketing cameras finally entail visual queues/reasons as to why "we" should buy a camera.

I am no defender of Leica and I might look back on this post in a few years and feel embarrassed about it but...

Web sized images together with Photoshop is a great equalizer. I can not distinguish what type of camera has been used for most any shot these days. Almost shockingly I can say with great confidence that a Canon XT with the kit lens could have been used to make these same images.

... BUT ...

After the shoot is over and the lights are put away your going to want to do two things... Retouch/Process and then Print/View.

1. Your retouchers are going to view the image at 100% and it makes their job a whole lot easier if the image does not look like mush at 100%. This is the biggest advantage to medium format digital at the moment. It applies in all cases.

2. If you print past an 8x10 or show on a monitor with 1,920 pixels wide or more the larger format image has the potential to look better.

Everything else can be accomplished with the other formats and Photoshop. Thus what the Leica S2 does is make shooting with a medium format sensor not so painful. I think the video for the images shown does a good job of conveying that. One thing is certain in 2009. Not Canon, not Nikon, not Leica, not anyone has made a sensor that works at ISO100 and then ISO1600 equally well. You need two sensors tuned for respective ISO goals. Thus 35mm DSLR and 645 MFD still share the same bag.

[gdwhalen]

I have supported Leica for 13 years.  Own/owned thousands of dollars of their equipment.  To me, they lack a basic and fundamental necessity and that is customer relations.  They, to me, have forgotten that it is the customer that drives the car, not the mechanic.  I sold all of my Leica gear to buy Hasselblad for one primary reason.  Hasselblad has a system.  Leica has a plan.  Systems, at least good ones, always trump plans - especially bad ones.

[asf]

Own/owned thousands of dollars of their equipment.

You own a service plan and an extra battery for the S2?

[telyt]

Obviously I have not compared them... the S2 is still at Paradise Ranch getting prepped for public disclosure.

Then what business do you have saying the P65 is better?  Here's a sample photo (not at Paradise Ranch, sorry):

http://dfarkas.blogspot.com/

[gdwhalen]

Funny thing is I have switched to Hasselblad who a lot of people feel abandoned by their decision to  leave their legacy behind with the H3d for a company that I am pissed off for leaving their legacy of the R8/9.  Go figure.

[pcunite]

Then what business do you have saying the P65 is better?  Here's a sample photo (not at Paradise Ranch, sorry):

http://dfarkas.blogspot.com/

Keep in mind I am not referring to the image quality as being the sum total of what makes a camera better. I took the time to expand on that point in post #235. It is impossible to tell which camera is better for a particular situation without using them side by side with an open mind and then comparing the raw files side by side assuming print size goals are the same.

Without taking price into the consideration... a larger sensor with more pixels tends to make an image, at the technical level better. The P65+ therefore should produce a better image. If the S2 has some super new tech going on with it then it will have introduced destructive technological progress.

Please understand I am just chatting online about a camera that is not publicly available yet. I enjoy good conversation.

[gdwhalen]

There is no one camera as there is no one tool.  However, there are great tools and bad tools and the bad tools really piss you off.


http://www.gdwhalen.com

[bcooter]

There oughtta be a law, if you advertise a camera

We've all had the meetings, the e-mails, "make sure you show color, that it holds highlights, detail, yea gotta show detail, and do something different like Cuba and boxing but instead of real boxers, do a pretty woman in boxing gloves, but not too provocative so put her in a dress ......."

I doubt if it's the photorapher's fault, he/she is probably pretty good, but It's just typical restrained, overmanaged advertising.    It doesn't get it's point across, it doesn't show anything different, heck it doesn't really showcase the uniqueness of the camera.

Thing is they want to sell this camera to photographers who work hard to have no restraints and you could easily pick a dozen or two or three good photographers that without all the chatter would produced some outstanding imagery with this or any camera.

I don't see the point but God help me, I do understand the process.

BC