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Author Topic: canon 5d mk11 in Antarctica  (Read 143869 times)

Eric Myrvaagnes

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canon 5d mk11 in Antarctica
« Reply #80 on: February 11, 2009, 07:47:37 pm »

In case any of you do take Spotmeter's suggestion to send all the relevant LL threads to Canon, I want to go on record as being yet another person heavily invested in Canon glass who is not going to buy a 5DII until I am certain that this problem has been addressed. My 5D mark I has given me no problems (except for the nuisance of sensor cleaning), so I'll try to take good care of it.

Eric

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mrenters

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« Reply #81 on: February 11, 2009, 07:51:01 pm »

Quote from: Johnny_Johnson
There are other possibilities Dan.  Did Martin and his wife both operate their cameras with their hands inside the Kayta covers?  Were they both wearing the same types of gloves?  Were the gloves wet and salt soaked from the trip over in the Zodiacs?  I may be mistaken but I seem to remember that Martin mentioned this as a possibility somewhere on the Web in the past few days.

Later,
Johnny

Neither one of us was wearing gloves during that landing.  The Kata bags have two access ports for putting your hands in which we obviously used to fire the shutter.

Martin

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BernardLanguillier

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« Reply #82 on: February 11, 2009, 08:42:48 pm »

Quote from: mrenters
Neither one of us was wearing gloves during that landing.  The Kata bags have two access ports for putting your hands in which we obviously used to fire the shutter.

I don't know if this applies to the situation you were in, and it is of course no excuse for the problem you have been facing, but when shooting on a tripod in the rain, I have found that using a release cable, even without MLU, if pretty convenient since you don't need to access the inside of the rain cover, or at least less so.

Cheers,
Bernard

rockrose

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« Reply #83 on: February 12, 2009, 03:57:39 am »

Quote from: spotmeter
When they see the enormous amount of bad publicity they are getting from water seal problems on the 5D2...
Canon has a long history of denying problems, and then fixing them. The 'black dots' on the 5D2 is a recent example.

As mkII owner I too am worried about the durability, but the "enormous amount of bad publicity" refers i.m.o. to a lot of reactions to only a few known cases of moisture/corrosion problems. It must be addressed nonetheless.
For the "history of denying problems" the black dots aren't a good example i.m.o., Canon admitted and resolved it rather quickly.
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ADA71

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« Reply #84 on: February 12, 2009, 11:12:08 am »

I may read this wrong but if the red indicates weather sealing, there is indeed none around the shutter release which showed the corrosion in the two failed 5D MK2s?




Quote from: Peter K. Burian
This is interesting too, including diagrams of the water-resisting features provided by Canon.
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos5dmarkii/page5.asp

As you can see from the first image below the body is made up of three pieces of magnesium, the only plastic elements being sides and the base. With the advent of the Mark II Canon are finally talking about the dust / water resistance of the body, the second image below shows these seals, Canon's description: "The battery compartment, memory card door, LCD and the camera buttons are all fitted with sealing materials (indicated in red). In addition the adoption of high precision split-level alignment of the magnesium-alloy external covers, high precision dial construction and external rubber grip covers (indicated in green), has improved the camera's dust and water resistance.
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ADA71

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« Reply #85 on: February 12, 2009, 11:16:52 am »

Well, the white paper is more PR hype than accurate representation of functionality. It also strongly advertised DOF control in movie mode of which there is no direct control as we know now.

Quote from: Peter K. Burian
Yes, the EOS 5D Mk II is well sealed. According to Canon's White Paper.

(I can understand water getting in between the camera and the vertical grip but not the other problems. And apparently, they were not caused by salt water, if I read the article correctly.)

www.usa.canon.com/uploadedimages/FCK/Image/White%20Papers/EOS%2050D%20and%205D%20Mark%20II%20WP.pdf

...weather-resistant rubber flaps cover these connectors.  the weather and dust seals have been improved around the battery compartments and memory card doors, and increased precision in the alignment of the magnesium alloy external cover seams and in the optimal design of camera parts and structures contribute to the cameras’ dust and water resistance. Internal gaskets and sealing materials are used extensively at the cameras’ buttons, tripod sockets, and surrounding the LCDs. As a result, the EOS 5D Mark II now has dust and water resistance that isalmost equal to that of the EOS-1N—Canon’s top-of-the-line professional 35mm SLR for most of the 1990’s....

I hope I don't have problems in rain or snow with my 5D II. (Not so far, but only used it once in light rain.)

Peter www.peterkburian.com
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ADA71

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« Reply #86 on: February 12, 2009, 11:26:47 am »

Also if you look at the sealing at the battery door, it is just a foam seal which will disintegrate rather quickly. Looks like the stuff which was used for mirror cushioning in old SLRs. This can soak up humidity for sure. Anyway better than nothing I guess.
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Plekto

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« Reply #87 on: February 12, 2009, 05:22:45 pm »

Quote from: eronald
Agreed. Anyone who has read this forum has been warned.

Edmund

I know myself from working with metals a bit that there are literally dozens of types of stainless steel.  Chose the wrong one and your sword or gun barrel won't work correctly.  And then there's also the problem with their supplier in China/Indonesia/wherever that makes the switches for them cutting corners on making the alloy.  Most of these metals are corrosion resistant only because of exotic and expensive metals that are added to the process.

In any case, yes - we seem to have "been warned".  This model isn't good for marine environments.  Otherwise, it seems to be fine, though.
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feppe

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« Reply #88 on: February 12, 2009, 05:46:12 pm »

Quote from: Plekto
In any case, yes - we seem to have "been warned".  This model isn't good for marine environments.  Otherwise, it seems to be fine, though.

Sample size is too small, and environmental and handling variations too large to make any definitive - or even directional - conclusions about the 5D MkII's viability in marine environments.

Plekto

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« Reply #89 on: February 12, 2009, 06:13:12 pm »

I just checked elsewhere.  Wow what a hairball this is causing all over the photo sites.

 
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Bern Caughey

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« Reply #90 on: February 12, 2009, 07:04:42 pm »

Previously posted in the Video forum...

'I picked up two of the first batch of 5D2s & have been working them fairly regularly. During a two day shoot in the forests outside San Francisco it was rainy & cold so I mostly used a Storm Jacket camera cover over my primary body.

While downloading CFs I noticed this camera became covered in condensation, so I stopped bringing it into the heated motor home. Still shortly after the multi-control toggle failed & I switched to the backup body.

At the end of the day I put the camera & lenses in Ziplocs, so additional condensation would form on the outside of the bags, & luckily the next day the primary camera came back to life.

Best regards,
Bern'

PS This was the only time the cameras were used in the wet & it wasn't raining very hard. I've had no issues using the cameras in the cold, including -30F Chicago.
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JDClements

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« Reply #91 on: February 12, 2009, 08:09:19 pm »

Quote from: mrenters
Our two cameras have serial numbers two apart 0320105xxx.  One other camera that failed had a serial number of 0320106xxx and an additional camera has a serial number of 0320102xxx.  Some cameras that didn't fail had serial numbers in the 0330105xxx and 0230113xxx range.  So, perhaps there is a problem with a batch in the 032010xxxx range.
That could be significant. As feppe points out, the sample size is too small to draw conclusions (but it is certainly large enough to draw concern). My serial number is 0220102xxx, and it has been problem-free since December. I have not had it in any type of precipitation, however, it has been taken between cold/warm environments many times.
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SteveGM

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« Reply #92 on: February 13, 2009, 03:43:11 pm »

As far as I am aware, Canon have only made one statement as to the damage itself, that was corrosion around the shutter release button, ergo, water has come in via this port. From the information ‘Martin’ has provided, there was light rain, a Kata bag was used and the shutter released inside the bag without gloves being worn. The problem also occurred before being returned to a warm cabin, so condensation here is not relevant.
Now I’m speculating. Water and salt must have got in via the finger when releasing the shutter. Is this because of slightly damp hands due to the conditions or can condensation form when warm hands meet a cold object? (I’d have probably had my hands in an out of my pockets trying to keep them warm) Whilst I am framing up I have my finger resting on the shutter release button for some time generally.
Do rain proof covers exacerbate the situation as somebody else suggested? I don’t know, but they must deprive the camera of any airflow (Condensation is encouraged by poor air circulation).
I am a 5D Mark 2 user, I am not being critical I hope, I am trying to find a workable solution for myself. If the camera is on a tripod, I myself will use a cable release, is it feasible to fire the shutter from the ‘outside’ of any raincover on the camera?? Thuswise keeping the shutter finger away.
As far as moving from a cold to a warm climate and condensation appearing, does it make any difference whether a ‘ziplock’ bag is used or is a general camera bag ok?? I’d appreciate opinions on this one – I have read some others being ok with the camera bag – is this something else to cart around, large ziplock bags.
I'm not sure I'm happy with the faulty batch scenario - although I wish it were true.
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SteveGM

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« Reply #93 on: February 15, 2009, 08:42:05 am »

If it is any use to anybody, I've been using the infra red remote release RC-1 today (with the 5D Mark 2), it fires the camera whether standing in front of or behind the lens, it will fire the shutter instantly or with a 2 second mirror lock-up. Maybe this will be useful with a raincover on the camera, or on dusty days it saves exposing the ports on the side to attach the cable release. £20 in the UK, I'm quite pleased with it.
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soboyle

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« Reply #94 on: February 15, 2009, 09:40:05 am »

For what it is worth, I took my 5D mk2 out cross country skiing, with the intent to shoot some landscapes along the way.
I was in vermont, very cold weather, near 0 F. A short way into the ski I fell into 3' deep powder snow, and ended up floundering around in the snow trying to get up and keep my camera out of the snow. By the time I got up, the camera looked like it have been dipped in egg and rolled in flour, it was completely inside a snow ball. I brushed it off as best as I could outside, and brought it inside to dry out. There was ice crystals jambed in around the shutter release button.  A few hours later I tried the camera, and it worked fine. Have had no problems since then. I was impressed, the only worse thing I could have done was to drop it into a deep puddle of water.
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BobH

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« Reply #95 on: February 15, 2009, 09:45:12 am »

Hi,

My wife and I were in Antarctica (South Shetlands and peninsula) in December 2007 using Canon 40D and XTi. Weather was +5C to -5C with sun, dense fog, a few showers and snow flurries. We spent many hours on deck as Zodiac travel and onshore. No problems were encountered in 14000 exposures. Cameras were usually just placed in camera pack before returning indoors and left for an hour or two. No other precautions were taken. Often cameras were brought in directly to heated air for picture download. The sealing on the cameras, particularly the XTi, is not up to that of the 5D Mark II.

My 5D Mark II has serial 02201xxx. I am interested whether there were any from this production run on the January 2009 trip. Mine had no obvious symptoms of black dot syndrome although I have updated the firmware to 1.07 just in case. This weather sealing problem is of great concern. Perhaps I should have upgraded to the 50D instead. Also the response of Canon Canada to the corrosion problems reported by Martin and the apparent abrogation of the camera warranty is very unacceptable behaviour on Canon's part.

My 5DII has been used in southern Ontario in cold to -20C and blowing snow during the past month with no problems other than a long warm-up in camera bags when brought indoors.

If there is an equivalent discussion in the (locked) Antarctic Expedition Workshop forum, it would be appreciated if any relevant information is cross-posted here.

Thanks

Bob
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Peter K. Burian

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« Reply #96 on: February 15, 2009, 10:50:21 am »

[quote name='BobH' date='Feb 15 2009, 03:45 PM' post='260178']

<<My 5D Mark II has serial 02201xxx. I am interested whether there were any from this production run on the January 2009 trip. Mine had no obvious symptoms of black dot syndrome although I have updated the firmware to 1.07 just in case. This weather sealing problem is of great concern. Perhaps I should have upgraded to the 50D instead. Also the response of Canon Canada to the corrosion problems reported by Martin and the apparent abrogation of the camera warranty is very unacceptable behaviour on Canon's part.

My 5DII has been used in southern Ontario in cold to -20C and blowing snow during the past month with no problems other than a long warm-up in camera bags when brought indoors.>>>

Ellen's 5d II: 02201051xx (no problems in the Falklands, where it got damp often)
 
My 5D II:  02201002xx (no problem the one time it got damp, while shooting in drizzle) Bob: You must have gotten your camera around the same time since our serial numbers are similar. Mine is from Bell'Arte Camera in Hamilton, ON and was one of the first to reach Canada.

Peter www.peterkburian.com




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Peter K. Burian

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« Reply #97 on: February 15, 2009, 10:56:59 am »

Quote from: dseelig
That is really about it I am thinking of selling my 1ds mk111 and going with 2 5d mk11's I have one 5d mk11 . I saw a post in another forum the 5d mk11 did not do so well in anartica what happened with it?

Yeah, but even more posts from people who own a 5D II and have NOT had problems after they got wet.

I have read all the posts and still don't understand what was unique about the Antarctica situation. Not that cold, not salt spray, etc. There are some theories about the use of camera bags or plastic bags after the cameras got wet, but it's still not possible to figure out what went wrong.

My friend Ellen shot in a simliar situation in the Falkland Islands in January and had no problems at all. <<It got wet at least twice (I mean two separate days)  but I tried to dry it off and protect it when the rain became more than a drizzle.  One day we had rain storms maybe every 10 - 15 minutes that lasted just long enough to get your gear back in the bag and hunker down over it (on a cliff) for a few minutes.  I know it got wet and damp then as well as one day that it was wet and windy all day long.  But I never had it out in pouring rain.  Mostly it was just rain but given the amount of wind, I'm sure there was salt water in the air too.>>

Peter www.peterkburian.com
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Rickard Hansson

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« Reply #98 on: February 15, 2009, 03:47:47 pm »

Quote from: soboyle
For what it is worth, I took my 5D mk2 out cross country skiing, with the intent to shoot some landscapes along the way.
I was in vermont, very cold weather, near 0 F. A short way into the ski I fell into 3' deep powder snow, and ended up floundering around in the snow trying to get up and keep my camera out of the snow. By the time I got up, the camera looked like it have been dipped in egg and rolled in flour, it was completely inside a snow ball. I brushed it off as best as I could outside, and brought it inside to dry out. There was ice crystals jambed in around the shutter release button.  A few hours later I tried the camera, and it worked fine. Have had no problems since then. I was impressed, the only worse thing I could have done was to drop it into a deep puddle of water.

"Dry snow" is never a problem as it has not turned into water. The same goes for very cold weather. The problem is weather conditions around 0 degrees celsius and or if you go from warm to cold and vice versa.
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framah

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« Reply #99 on: February 15, 2009, 04:15:16 pm »

My mind keeps coming back the the idea that somehow the rain covers are actually creating  a situation that causes the failure. Seems that the most failures were while even using rain covers while other people who used a towel to wipe it off had no problems.

If you have a camera in a plastic bag of sorts and it is cold in there and then you put your hot little hand(s) in the bag to shoot... will the heat from your hands cause a condensation on the inside of the bag?

A long shot, I know but could something like this be possible??  


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