Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 10   Go Down

Author Topic: canon 5d mk11 in Antarctica  (Read 143868 times)

eronald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6629
    • My gallery on Instagram
canon 5d mk11 in Antarctica
« Reply #60 on: February 10, 2009, 11:03:46 am »

How to treat a camera when it gets cold and rainy is an interesting question. A bag of cold air when bringing the camera in is a nice idea as it gives it dry air to warm in, but the same bag of warm air when taking it out provides a reservoir of humidity to deposit as condensate. I wonder whether in the end the simplesst solution - no sealed bags,  cushioned case or camera on the outside of your coat in winter, spare battery in pocket, isn't the least risky for a weather-proofed camera (EOS1, NIKON D). In any case it's certainly the solution which is tested most by consumers

Edmund
« Last Edit: February 10, 2009, 11:04:44 am by eronald »
Logged
If you appreciate my blog posts help me by following on https://instagram.com/edmundronald

inissila

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 36
canon 5d mk11 in Antarctica
« Reply #61 on: February 11, 2009, 05:41:44 am »

Quote from: eronald
How to treat a camera when it gets cold and rainy is an interesting question. A bag of cold air when bringing the camera in is a nice idea as it gives it dry air to warm in, but the same bag of warm air when taking it out provides a reservoir of humidity to deposit as condensate. I wonder whether in the end the simplesst solution - no sealed bags,  cushioned case or camera on the outside of your coat in winter, spare battery in pocket, isn't the least risky for a weather-proofed camera (EOS1, NIKON D). In any case it's certainly the solution which is tested most by consumers

Right, the sealed bags are only used when going from the cold outdoors to the warm and humid indoor space. When going back out again, the sealed bags are not used (but of course the gear is still in the (not sealed) camera bag.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 05:42:20 am by inissila »
Logged

pegelli

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1605
    • http://pegelli.smugmug.com/
canon 5d mk11 in Antarctica
« Reply #62 on: February 11, 2009, 05:58:49 am »

Quote from: Paul Kay
I took my 5D2 out for its first test in pretty cold conditions in the foothills of the Carneddau 'mountains' here in North Wales. It was sub-zero and very windy. I had to scrape snow off the top of the camera and it worked happily enough despite having to have snow scraped off the top twice. I did get frozen though, and had to walk back down in near blizzard conditions.

Paul,

Nice shot, which reminds me of a walk I took up the sides of Mount Snowdon ~ 15 years ago in similar conditions. I've got some negatives from that somewhere, but not scanned (yet  )
Well worth the freezing cold and snow on you and your camera. I'm glad you both survived.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 05:59:18 am by pegelli »
Logged
pieter, aka pegelli

Peter K. Burian

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 47
    • http://www.peterkburian.com
canon 5d mk11 in Antarctica
« Reply #63 on: February 11, 2009, 10:27:01 am »

Yes, the EOS 5D Mk II is well sealed. According to Canon's White Paper.

(I can understand water getting in between the camera and the vertical grip but not the other problems. And apparently, they were not caused by salt water, if I read the article correctly.)

www.usa.canon.com/uploadedimages/FCK/Image/White%20Papers/EOS%2050D%20and%205D%20Mark%20II%20WP.pdf

...weather-resistant rubber flaps cover these connectors.  the weather and dust seals have been improved around the battery compartments and memory card doors, and increased precision in the alignment of the magnesium alloy external cover seams and in the optimal design of camera parts and structures contribute to the cameras’ dust and water resistance. Internal gaskets and sealing materials are used extensively at the cameras’ buttons, tripod sockets, and surrounding the LCDs. As a result, the EOS 5D Mark II now has dust and water resistance that isalmost equal to that of the EOS-1N—Canon’s top-of-the-line professional 35mm SLR for most of the 1990’s....

I hope I don't have problems in rain or snow with my 5D II. (Not so far, but only used it once in light rain.)

Peter www.peterkburian.com
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 04:06:47 pm by Peter K. Burian »
Logged

Colorado David

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1178
canon 5d mk11 in Antarctica
« Reply #64 on: February 11, 2009, 10:45:07 am »

Quote from: JohnKoerner
I know, for example, in wristwatches if you buy a watch that says "weather resistant," don't think you can go scuba diving with it. If you do, it will fail. You have to buy a waterproof watch if you want to go diving.

The terms waterproof and water resistant are very subjective, even more so in diving watches.  I was told by a Rolex trained watchmaker that no watch is sold as water proof.  Even the Rolex Submariner, which is most certainly sold as a diving watch, is represented as water resistant to a certain specification, to 300 meters, rather than water proof.

Peter K. Burian

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 47
    • http://www.peterkburian.com
canon 5d mk11 in Antarctica
« Reply #65 on: February 11, 2009, 11:10:10 am »

A friend used her EOS 5D II in the Falklands in January, and thankfully, she reports no problems.

... It got wet at least twice (I mean two separate days)  but I tried to dry it off and protect it when the rain became more than a drizzle.  One day we had rain storms maybe every 10 - 15 minutes that lasted just long enough to get your gear back in the bag and hunker down over it (on a cliff) for a few minutes.  I know it got wet and damp then as well as one day that it was wet and windy all day long.  But I never had it out in pouring rain.  Mostly it was just rain but given the amount of wind, I'm sure there was salt water in the air too....

The Serial Number of her camera is 0220105xxx
« Last Edit: February 13, 2009, 09:16:07 am by Peter K. Burian »
Logged

francois

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 10237
canon 5d mk11 in Antarctica
« Reply #66 on: February 11, 2009, 11:16:59 am »

Quote from: Colorado David
The terms waterproof and water resistant are very subjective, even more so in diving watches.  I was told by a Rolex trained watchmaker that no watch is sold as water proof.  Even the Rolex Submariner, which is most certainly sold as a diving watch, is represented as water resistant to a certain specification, to 300 meters, rather than water proof.
Speaking of diving watches, you'd probably be surprised to learn that most failures occur in very shallow waters (~1m deep) -  Not unlike the 5D2 failing in moderate rain/drizzle.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 11:17:46 am by francois »
Logged
Francois

Paul Kay

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 131
    • http://
canon 5d mk11 in Antarctica
« Reply #67 on: February 11, 2009, 11:28:42 am »

Quote from: francois
Speaking of diving watches, you'd probably be surprised to learn that most failures occur in very shallow waters (~1m deep) -  Not unlike the 5D2 failing in moderate rain/drizzle.

Virtually all diving equipment uses 'O' ring seals, NOT gaskets as used for 'weatherproofing'. Sorry but the analogy is not accurate as 'O' rings are designed to work more efficiently under increased pressure and if they fail they can do so at very low increases in pressure (at the surface) if their sealing surfaces are compromised in some way. Gaskets are supposed to work under low or no pressure - very different technologies.
Logged

francois

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 10237
canon 5d mk11 in Antarctica
« Reply #68 on: February 11, 2009, 12:30:06 pm »

Quote from: Paul Kay
Virtually all diving equipment uses 'O' ring seals, NOT gaskets as used for 'weatherproofing'. Sorry but the analogy is not accurate as 'O' rings are designed to work more efficiently under increased pressure and if they fail they can do so at very low increases in pressure (at the surface) if their sealing surfaces are compromised in some way. Gaskets are supposed to work under low or no pressure - very different technologies.
You're right, of course, cameras don't use the same kind of seals. I wanted to point out that failures don't always occur in the most demanding conditions.
Logged
Francois

dseelig

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 581
canon 5d mk11 in Antarctica
« Reply #69 on: February 11, 2009, 12:32:24 pm »

I do not understand anyone shooting a 3 grand camera in the rain without protection. Nor do I understand anyone going as far as Anartica and the expenses that entail without several backups. That said what happened to these 5d mk11's ?
Logged

mrenters

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 80
    • http://www.teckelworks.com/
canon 5d mk11 in Antarctica
« Reply #70 on: February 11, 2009, 12:39:12 pm »

Quote from: dseelig
I do not understand anyone shooting a 3 grand camera in the rain without protection. Nor do I understand anyone going as far as Anartica and the expenses that entail without several backups. That said what happened to these 5d mk11's ?

You must have missed my previous postings.  Both out 5DmkIIs were in Kata rain gear during the rain and we also had 2 of the original 5Ds as backup. Both 5DmkII cameras were revived by drying, although one later developed problems again and finally died in Buenos Aires (+35C, sunny, humid).

Our two units are now at Canon for repair and we've been offered free repair but voiding of further warranty or trading them for new 5DmkIIs for 50% off the retail price.  Neither of these options is acceptable as far as I'm concerned.

Martin

Logged

Plekto

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 551
canon 5d mk11 in Antarctica
« Reply #71 on: February 11, 2009, 03:44:44 pm »

It is a high failure rate, to be honest.  I suspect that the problem is that someone chose the wrong alloy for the stitch contacts and connectors.  Though, salt water resistance would be a fairly easy test to conduct in Japan, I'd wager.
Logged

Peter K. Burian

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 47
    • http://www.peterkburian.com
canon 5d mk11 in Antarctica
« Reply #72 on: February 11, 2009, 04:26:38 pm »

This is interesting too, including diagrams of the water-resisting features provided by Canon.
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos5dmarkii/page5.asp

As you can see from the first image below the body is made up of three pieces of magnesium, the only plastic elements being sides and the base. With the advent of the Mark II Canon are finally talking about the dust / water resistance of the body, the second image below shows these seals, Canon's description: "The battery compartment, memory card door, LCD and the camera buttons are all fitted with sealing materials (indicated in red). In addition the adoption of high precision split-level alignment of the magnesium-alloy external covers, high precision dial construction and external rubber grip covers (indicated in green), has improved the camera's dust and water resistance.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 06:07:59 pm by Chrissand »
Logged

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 12923
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
canon 5d mk11 in Antarctica
« Reply #73 on: February 11, 2009, 04:28:19 pm »

Quote from: Plekto
It is a high failure rate, to be honest.  I suspect that the problem is that someone chose the wrong alloy for the stitch contacts and connectors.  Though, salt water resistance would be a fairly easy test to conduct in Japan, I'd wager.

All the tests can be done, but validation is a significant part of the developement cost of complex DSLRs.

Unless they are willing to lose money on these bodies (which is very likely for Sony), I wouldn't be surprised if Canon, Sony and Nikon had had to make some tough calls in terms of test matrix simplifications during the design phases of their latest round of lower end FF DSLRs.

It would appear that Canon was unlucky this time around.

Cheers,
Bernard

dseelig

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 581
canon 5d mk11 in Antarctica
« Reply #74 on: February 11, 2009, 04:32:09 pm »

HI Martin
I was not talking about you but from what I read many people went without rain covers on the trip. Which to me means trouble in the months ahead. David
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 04:32:40 pm by dseelig »
Logged

eronald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6629
    • My gallery on Instagram
canon 5d mk11 in Antarctica
« Reply #75 on: February 11, 2009, 06:02:43 pm »

Quote from: BernardLanguillier
It would appear that Canon was unlucky this time around.

Cheers,
Bernard

Agreed. Anyone who has read this forum has been warned.

Edmund
Logged
If you appreciate my blog posts help me by following on https://instagram.com/edmundronald

spotmeter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 329
    • http://www.photographica.us
canon 5d mk11 in Antarctica
« Reply #76 on: February 11, 2009, 06:14:51 pm »

Quote from: mrenters
You must have missed my previous postings.  Both out 5DmkIIs were in Kata rain gear during the rain and we also had 2 of the original 5Ds as backup. Both 5DmkII cameras were revived by drying, although one later developed problems again and finally died in Buenos Aires (+35C, sunny, humid).

Our two units are now at Canon for repair and we've been offered free repair but voiding of further warranty or trading them for new 5DmkIIs for 50% off the retail price.  Neither of these options is acceptable as far as I'm concerned.

Martin

I would certainly not accept their offers. The only thing that makes sense is for Canon to repair both bodies under warranty.

You might strengthen your case with Canon by printing out Michael's report on the Canon failures on this trip, as well as the contents of this thread.  When they see the enormous amount of bad publicity they are getting from water seal problems on the 5D2 and  their handling of your situation, they may feel like honoring their warranty on the camera. If the local Canon people don't accept that this a problem they should fix under warranty, then ask for their superiors and send the printed material to them.

I for one have delayed buying a 5D2 as a result of your experience with Canon.

Canon has a long history of denying problems, and then fixing them. The 'black dots' on the 5D2 is a recent example.  So don't expect them to admit that there is a problem with some Canons (yours among them).  But they should fix it under warranty without any 'special' conditions.

Please keep us posted.
Logged

JDClements

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 312
    • http://www.jdanielclements.com
canon 5d mk11 in Antarctica
« Reply #77 on: February 11, 2009, 06:26:38 pm »

What is the failure rate we are talking about? It is 6 out of 26, but we know two of those are unrelated to the main issue being discussed. One was a spontaneously cracked cover on the top LCD, one was a loose screw on the lens mount. Two are known to have the "corrosion" problem, discussed in this thread. What about the other two?

The corrosion/water problem affected 2-4 out of 26 cameras ( ~ 8-15%). I find it interesting that two (somewhere between half and all of the related failures) was from the same household. Were these cameras purchased simultaneously? Reason I ask is the possibility of a bad run, since cameras coming off the assembly line together tend to stay clumped together through the distribution chain.
Logged

mrenters

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 80
    • http://www.teckelworks.com/
canon 5d mk11 in Antarctica
« Reply #78 on: February 11, 2009, 06:40:02 pm »

Quote from: JDClements
What is the failure rate we are talking about? It is 6 out of 26, but we know two of those are unrelated to the main issue being discussed. One was a spontaneously cracked cover on the top LCD, one was a loose screw on the lens mount. Two are known to have the "corrosion" problem, discussed in this thread. What about the other two?

The corrosion/water problem affected 2-4 out of 26 cameras ( ~ 8-15%). I find it interesting that two (somewhere between half and all of the related failures) was from the same household. Were these cameras purchased simultaneously? Reason I ask is the possibility of a bad run, since cameras coming off the assembly line together tend to stay clumped together through the distribution chain.

Our two cameras have serial numbers two apart 0320105xxx.  One other camera that failed had a serial number of 0320106xxx and an additional camera has a serial number of 0320102xxx.  Some cameras that didn't fail had serial numbers in the 0330105xxx and 0230113xxx range.  So, perhaps there is a problem with a batch in the 032010xxxx range.

Martin

Logged

Johnny_Johnson

  • Guest
canon 5d mk11 in Antarctica
« Reply #79 on: February 11, 2009, 06:45:36 pm »

Quote from: JDClements
The corrosion/water problem affected 2-4 out of 26 cameras ( ~ 8-15%). I find it interesting that two (somewhere between half and all of the related failures) was from the same household. Were these cameras purchased simultaneously? Reason I ask is the possibility of a bad run, since cameras coming off the assembly line together tend to stay clumped together through the distribution chain.

There are other possibilities Dan.  Did Martin and his wife both operate their cameras with their hands inside the Kayta covers?  Were they both wearing the same types of gloves?  Were the gloves wet and salt soaked from the trip over in the Zodiacs?  I may be mistaken but I seem to remember that Martin mentioned this as a possibility somewhere on the Web in the past few days.

Later,
Johnny
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 10   Go Up