Pages: 1 ... 15 16 [17] 18 19 ... 23   Go Down

Author Topic: Leica's new MF system  (Read 331298 times)

Graham Mitchell

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2281
Leica's new MF system
« Reply #320 on: September 23, 2008, 08:42:42 am »

Quote
bronica (rumor) lenses+ german panzer (leica) design + phase one software (the best part)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223563\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Bronica??

The best part of the system will be the lenses, I hope. We already know what a Phase back can do.
Logged

markowich

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 119
    • http://www.peter-markowich.net
Leica's new MF system
« Reply #321 on: September 23, 2008, 08:55:12 am »

Quote
I find that hard to agree with, the 35, 50, 85, 135 and 200  L's are all awesome and with the DsIII produce top quality shots..
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223550\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

innocent question: what do canon users do wide angle wise? use the nikon 14-24mm with adapter or is there a  more generic solution? i am asking because i am thinking of getting a 5DmarkII...+canon lenses.
peter
Logged

markowich

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 119
    • http://www.peter-markowich.net
Leica's new MF system
« Reply #322 on: September 23, 2008, 08:57:03 am »

as i said, just a rumor. but apparently leica bought the bronica machinery to do the lenses and did not start the design from scratch.
peter

Quote
Bronica??

The best part of the system will be the lenses, I hope. We already know what a Phase back can do.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223570\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Logged

hankg

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 55
    • http://www.hankgraber.com
Leica's new MF system
« Reply #323 on: September 23, 2008, 08:59:04 am »

It's to early to tell how this will turn out it could be a game changer or a big flop depending on performance and price. The Phase One distribution network and the Phase One electronics and software at least gets Leica a hearing. After the M8 launch no one would shell out 10's of thousands on a totally new untested digital system/format from Leica especially without a pro support network.

Phase back and software and Leica Optics and optical viewfinder have a proven track record that at least on paper sounds incredibly attractive. Combining them in a small SLR package with weatherproofing sounds even better. I'm surprised though that Leica did not have at least one really fast lens like 2.0 or 1.8.

So until we see working products and find out street prices it is to early to tell anything. Still kudo's to Dr. Kaufman for taking such a big risk and trying to really bring something new to the market. I've always liked Leica's so I hope it's a smashing success.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2008, 09:00:17 am by hankg »
Logged
Hank Graber
[url=http://www.hankgraber.c

Christopher

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1499
    • http://www.hauser-photoart.com
Leica's new MF system
« Reply #324 on: September 23, 2008, 09:02:56 am »

Quote
innocent question: what do canon users do wide angle wise? use the nikon 14-24mm with adapter or is there a  more generic solution? i am asking because i am thinking of getting a 5DmarkII...+canon lenses.
peter
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223572\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Just some examples:

leica R19mm
Zeiss 21mm
Leica 28 or zeiss 28
leica 35 or zeiss 35
or 35-70 from zeiss or leica
Logged
Christopher Hauser
[email=chris@hauser-p

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13983
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Leica's new MF system
« Reply #325 on: September 23, 2008, 09:17:31 am »

Quote
After the M8 launch no one would shell out 10's of thousands on a totally new untested digital system/format from Leica especially without a pro support network.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223574\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Why should a 20.000 US$ camera need support in the first place?

Cheers,
Bernard

markowich

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 119
    • http://www.peter-markowich.net
Leica's new MF system
« Reply #326 on: September 23, 2008, 09:18:39 am »

Quote
Just some examples:

leica R19mm
Zeiss 21mm
Leica 28 or zeiss 28
leica 35 or zeiss 35
or 35-70 from zeiss or leica
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223575\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


thanks, but i am so spoiled by the nikon autofokus (even use it for wide angle shooting...i know i know...) and i do not like adapters. which canon wide angles would you recommend?
peter
Logged

Graham Mitchell

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2281
Leica's new MF system
« Reply #327 on: September 23, 2008, 09:21:36 am »

So it seems that there will be a mixture of central shutter lenses and shutterless lenses, contrary to some earlier reports.

* Summarit-S 70mm f/2.5 CS ASPH
* Summarit-S 35mm f/2.5 CS ASPH
* APO-Macro-Summarit-S 120mm f/2.5 CS
* APO-Elmar-S 180mm f/3.5 CS
* Elmarit-S 24mm f/2.8 ASPH
* APO-Tele-Elmar-S 350mm f/3.5
* Vario-Elmar-S 30-90mm f/3.5 ASPH
* Elmar-S 30mm f/3.5 Tilt-Shift
* Elmarit-S 100mm f/3.5 ASPH

(CS designates 'central shutter')
Logged

Graham Mitchell

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2281
Leica's new MF system
« Reply #328 on: September 23, 2008, 09:23:12 am »

Quote
thanks, but i am so spoiled by the nikon autofokus (even use it for wide angle shooting...i know i know...) and i do not like adapters. which canon wide angles would you recommend?
peter
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223585\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

If you don't like adapters you can still use the new Zeiss lenses in EOS mount, such as the 21mm.
Logged

markowich

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 119
    • http://www.peter-markowich.net
Leica's new MF system
« Reply #329 on: September 23, 2008, 09:27:35 am »

Quote
If you don't like adapters you can still use the new Zeiss lenses in EOS mount, such as the 21mm.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223589\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

you are right. but i tried zeiss wide angles on the nikon D3 and i was not convinced. the 24-24 and 24-70 were equal in terms of quality, or at least not far behind. so do i really have to forsake autofokus on canon if i want to get great quality wide angles?
peter
Logged

Snook

  • Guest
Leica's new MF system
« Reply #330 on: September 23, 2008, 09:55:56 am »

Quote
Cheering and booing, all at once.  Leica has broken its stodgy mould and become the first camera company to smash out of the antiquated 35/MF paradigm. "Formats" are a thing of the past ( and have been for a while -- just nobody's had the balls to say so).  The future is about systems, and the vision and ergonomics that accompany them. 

Leica has hit the sweet-spot, imho, on the camera-size / file size chart.  This camera could be a world beater, especially coupling Leica optics to a large sensor.

......but.......

Price??? I can own a second-hand 39MP MF system, with lenses, for about what the *body* is rumoured to be costing here?!?!?! F'getabouit.

And the lenses. Um, er, where are the zooms? TS lenses are nice, but who gives fuck. Really. Seriously. It's called a "view" camera.  Goes on a tripod with a (now) dirt cheap MF back covering 4x5 in multiple frames.  Costs so much less you can buy an investment bank with the change from the prices people are throwing around here.

For the other 99.5% of shooters who couldn't give rat's ass about T/S, where are the zooms? HELLO IN THERE.  Zoooooooooooom  lenses!!! They're these cool things where you can, like, totally change the focal length just by turning a ring, eh.  It's like, so totally awesome.  Fixed focal length, on the other hand, is like, so totally 1960. 

Sharp, sure. Whatever. On a camera meant to compete with high-end 35mm Nikon and Canon, there MUST BE core zoom lenses. And fast ones at that. 
And here's the kicker.......what if the rumours about Nikon's "MX" format are true? It'll deliver thrice the ISO performance, and a third the price, I bet.  And it will actually be available for purchase in that nifty, here's-my-money-hand-me-my-camera-I-have -shoot-tomorrow kind of way. 

with zoom lenses. 
So, cheering and booing.

We live in interesting times.

- N.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223459\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


You can calm down now as there is supposedly a 30-90 zoom lens..
:+}
Logged

eronald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6642
    • My gallery on Instagram
Leica's new MF system
« Reply #331 on: September 23, 2008, 10:17:36 am »

Quote
Why should a 20.000 US$ camera need support in the first place?

Cheers,
Bernard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223584\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The M8 had teething issues necessitating 3 weeks minimum return to factory.

Edmund
Logged
If you appreciate my blog posts help me by following on https://instagram.com/edmundronald

hankg

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 55
    • http://www.hankgraber.com
Leica's new MF system
« Reply #332 on: September 23, 2008, 11:00:57 am »

Quote
Why should a 20.000 US$ camera need support in the first place?

Cheers,
Bernard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223584\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Same reason $40,000 MF backs need support and lighting systems and camera platforms that are widely available in rental houses tend to be favored. Anything can break down at any time and you can't own everything you might need. If your equipment craps out can your rep get you a replacement same or worst case next day or are you out of business? If you need a $7,000 lens once or twice a year can you rent it or do you have to pay to have it sitting on a shelf most of the time?
Logged
Hank Graber
[url=http://www.hankgraber.c

BJL

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6600
Leica's new MF system
« Reply #333 on: September 23, 2008, 11:20:29 am »

Quote
i am pretty sure that you cant use 35mm lenses for shorter distance between lens and mirror, whih has to be larger ona larger sensor.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223399\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The Leica R mount has a registration distance of about 46mm, which is more than the minimum needed for 24x36mm format (the Canon EF mount is about 42mm). So it might be possible to use the same registration distance despite the extra 6mm of mirror height (30mm vs 24mm). Especially with a fancy mirror mechanism, like that of the Sony A900: the extra mirror depth is only about 4mm when the mirror is angled for use.

In fact, I speculate that the reason for Leica using 30x45mm rather than the 33x44mm of other Kodak sensors is for backward compatibility with the Leica R lens mount. If so, we might at last get a test of the idea that telephoto lenses often have "oversized" image circles, big enough for use with somewhat larger formats: Leica R telephotos might work on S bodies with no need for cropping.


And I agree with a post above: one very intriguing fact here is Leica producing NINE new lenses all at once, way ahead of the pace of Rollei and Hy6 with AF lenses.
Logged

rogan

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 194
Leica's new MF system
« Reply #334 on: September 23, 2008, 11:41:12 am »

To me, I am thrilled by the Leica only because it will prompt Canon and Nikon to follow.

I knew it was doomed when they brought out Wim Winders to introduce it. Show me someone who earns their living with it and I am impressed.

3 huge problems

1 USB on a 35mp camera. Obviously tethering isn't an option(Doctors and Lawyers won't mind though) 80% of the pro market uses mac and usb is not an option. Why not fw800 and will be fw 3200 by the time it's released?
2 Multi point af. Here was their chance to separate themselves from the pack and they came up short.
3 Slow lenses. The last pro mf camera to launch with this slow of a normal lens was the RZ in 1763! Mamiya has a 1.9, contax and hassy have f2 and 2.8(hassy V and H also have f2 lenses), leafnar has a f2 as well with it's main lenses being 2.8 and these leica lenses don't even have shutters in them.

Great idea but was a single pro consulted in it's specs?
Logged

ErikKaffehr

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11311
    • Echophoto
Leica's new MF system
« Reply #335 on: September 23, 2008, 11:41:51 am »

Hi,

I think that Leica competes not with Canon but with Hasselblad and Mamya/Phase One on this one.

Canon is weak on wide angle optics. Leica has obviously problems with pricing, but they are in many senses in the same market as Hasselblad, another small european company.

Don't forget that the price of the Leica includes a digital back!

Best regards
Erik

Quote
and what if canon makes it in a leica S mount?  that would keep the S bodies on the shelf..

 I feel that leica has got to keep the price within the desired market.. even if it is a loss leader..this is their couturé line..in the fashion bus. designers know they never hit a profit margin on it.. it is the second lines that they make the bucks on. Leica will never be able to compete dollar for dollar with canon, nor can canon compete overall quality-wise with leica.

 Leica is going for the niche high-end pro-market..maybe the top 10%.. but only the top 1%, if that, make the money to go out and buy into a new system just like that.. and this 1% are for the most part are not stupid in the business dept. and buy equipment that works for them on all levels, not because it is the latest, most fab, got-to-have fashion statement..it is a tool of the trade and how it performs or doesn't is critical to our success in the market.

The camera could work for me.. but it has to work financially..and that is the big unknown at the moment.. if I was shooting national ads everyday of the week, every week, then I would just say sign me up, I don't care if it is 15, 20 or 30g..but this isn't the 90's is it?
 If it is the best camera in the market it should and will be the most expensive..but by how much..that will determine if this new bit of kit is just eye candy or is something more than a handful of us can work with.

I hope the latter.. cause it would would look great with my Helmet Lang black leather jacket!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223561\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Logged
Erik Kaffehr
 

Snook

  • Guest
Leica's new MF system
« Reply #336 on: September 23, 2008, 11:47:44 am »

Don't forget that the price of the Leica includes a digital back!

Best regards
Erik
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223631\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
[/quote]


Your are very right.. a lot of people have over looked that and it is almost 40 megaPixel one at that.

I guess the difference is that is it permanetly inside the camera..

If I have the extra cash flow, I would by one. Would have to down grade my porsche.

Let's see how it all pans out in the next 2-3 years. Maybe the Nikon MF wil come out before hand and force them to lower the price..:+}
Snook
Logged

James R Russell

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 992
    • http://www.russellrutherford.com/
Leica's new MF system
« Reply #337 on: September 23, 2008, 12:05:38 pm »

Quote
Same reason $40,000 MF backs need support and lighting systems and camera platforms that are widely available in rental houses tend to be favored. Anything can break down at any time and you can't own everything you might need. If your equipment craps out can your rep get you a replacement same or worst case next day or are you out of business? If you need a $7,000 lens once or twice a year can you rent it or do you have to pay to have it sitting on a shelf most of the time?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223620\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I guess this camera falls into the medium format range, which puts a smile on my face since it doesn't look like medium format it looks like a 35mm dslr, though I'll admit a very pretty dslr.

Still, it fits all the criteria of medium format in that it's expensive, is sold mainly through specialized dealers, the lenses are on the slow side and the price is probably going to be double of anything that comes out of Japan.

Oh yea, it's ccd and since I've owned 10 professional ccd cameras and not seen one go past 400 iso clean I have to assume this will be the same as the others.  Maybe fotz is right and Theirry's 800 iso images for the Sinar 75 are clean at 800, I'll believe it when I use it and since I've never seen a Sinar with the batteries charged I guess that test will have to wait.

The thing I find most interesting is the way these cameras are introduced and marketed in relationship to how the Japanese introduce and market their cameras.

None of us know when, what, where, how much the Leica will costs, how well it tethers, if the lcd works when tethering, if it has live view, if all the lenses will be available at once, or if this will be like other Photokina medium format announcements that take 2 years before they are finally on a dealers shelf.

In comparison the 5D2 and the new Sony are already in photographers hands with samples bouncing all over the web.  

I am fascinated by how slow the lenses of medium format have become.  Everything seems to be in the 2.8 to f4 range which is a buzz kill considering that Leica, Mamiya, Rollei had a lot of fast lenses in the past.  

Did someone from Profoto and Broncolor tell the world of medium format that everyone shoots studio strobe, so forget about continuous light and short depth of field.  

I guess techtalk was right when he/she said "-but tomorrow's announcements will be of the evolutionary advancement type."

JR

P.S.  Now the first annoucement I would like to see from photokina is that Thomas Knoll will meet 5 photographers in Milan, that will shoot every digital camera out there next to their film counterparts and hand off a digital file and a about 20 different films, in 20 different scenes/subjects and ask him to please make presets to make all of these files look like any of these films.  Just like the fcp and aftereffects plug ins that have Michael Bay Yellow, we could have Paulo Roversi polaroid, Ansel Adams zoned black and white, Terry Richardson saturated,  etc. etc.

Now the second announcement I would like to see is profoto brings back their hmi lighting.  Those things are the bomb and allow you to shoot continuous and flash with the same style modifiers.

Of course to use the hmi's you need higher iso.

I agree with Rogan.  Let's don't put rich cats in suits telling us they "talked" to professional photographers so they could make the best camera in the world".  Put these things in the hands of people that shoot for a living and let them knock the paint off of em.  Then they'll know what is really needed.

That is something that Nikon and Canon are very good at.  They put their early pre production cameras out there in working situations, way before they ever go on sale.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2008, 12:13:23 pm by James R Russell »
Logged

woof75

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 581
Leica's new MF system
« Reply #338 on: September 23, 2008, 12:45:44 pm »

Quote
I guess this camera falls into the medium format range, which puts a smile on my face since it doesn't look like medium format it looks like a 35mm dslr, though I'll admit a very pretty dslr.

Still, it fits all the criteria of medium format in that it's expensive, is sold mainly through specialized dealers, the lenses are on the slow side and the price is probably going to be double of anything that comes out of Japan.

Oh yea, it's ccd and since I've owned 10 professional ccd cameras and not seen one go past 400 iso clean I have to assume this will be the same as the others.  Maybe fotz is right and Theirry's 800 iso images for the Sinar 75 are clean at 800, I'll believe it when I use it and since I've never seen a Sinar with the batteries charged I guess that test will have to wait.

The thing I find most interesting is the way these cameras are introduced and marketed in relationship to how the Japanese introduce and market their cameras.

None of us know when, what, where, how much the Leica will costs, how well it tethers, if the lcd works when tethering, if it has live view, if all the lenses will be available at once, or if this will be like other Photokina medium format announcements that take 2 years before they are finally on a dealers shelf.

In comparison the 5D2 and the new Sony are already in photographers hands with samples bouncing all over the web.   

I am fascinated by how slow the lenses of medium format have become.  Everything seems to be in the 2.8 to f4 range which is a buzz kill considering that Leica, Mamiya, Rollei had a lot of fast lenses in the past. 

Did someone from Profoto and Broncolor tell the world of medium format that everyone shoots studio strobe, so forget about continuous light and short depth of field. 

I guess techtalk was right when he/she said "-but tomorrow's announcements will be of the evolutionary advancement type."

JR

P.S.  Now the first annoucement I would like to see from photokina is that Thomas Knoll will meet 5 photographers in Milan, that will shoot every digital camera out there next to their film counterparts and hand off a digital file and a about 20 different films, in 20 different scenes/subjects and ask him to please make presets to make all of these files look like any of these films.  Just like the fcp and aftereffects plug ins that have Michael Bay Yellow, we could have Paulo Roversi polaroid, Ansel Adams zoned black and white, Terry Richardson saturated,  etc. etc.

Now the second announcement I would like to see is profoto brings back their hmi lighting.  Those things are the bomb and allow you to shoot continuous and flash with the same style modifiers.

Of course to use the hmi's you need higher iso.

I agree with Rogan.  Let's don't put rich cats in suits telling us they "talked" to professional photographers so they could make the best camera in the world".  Put these things in the hands of people that shoot for a living and let them knock the paint off of em.  Then they'll know what is really needed.

That is something that Nikon and Canon are very good at.  They put their early pre production cameras out there in working situations, way before they ever go on sale.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223636\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Canon could have fooled me with regard to giving them to working pros. I don't know about the 1ds mark 3 but the mark 2 was a total dog to shoot tethered, the software was horrible and the stupid thing had to go back to the factory every 4 months to get the firewire port replaced.
Logged

clawery

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 512
    • http://www.captureintegration.com  / www.chrislawery.com
Leica's new MF system
« Reply #339 on: September 23, 2008, 12:48:48 pm »

Take a look at Capture Integration's front page.  We will be updating our site as the information flows in from Photokina.

http://www.captureintegration.com/

Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
chris@captureintegration.com
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer of the Year

877-217-9870 | National  Atlanta / Miami
404-234-5195 | Cell  
Sign up for our Newsletter | Read Our Latest Newsletter
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 15 16 [17] 18 19 ... 23   Go Up