Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7] 8 9 ... 17   Go Down

Author Topic: P65+  (Read 133149 times)

James R Russell

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 992
    • http://www.russellrutherford.com/
P65+
« Reply #120 on: July 13, 2008, 11:42:52 pm »

Quote
Um, no Lance.

Existing H2D-39/H3D-39/H3DII-39 owners receive approximately $16,500 credit on their system towards an H3DII-50, which leaves a net purchase amount of roughly $23,500.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=207975\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Not a knock on blad, just in still photography in general.  From a 1 year old system to  a new system with 20%  . . . 25% more detail at that price it's just  . . . staggering.

JR
« Last Edit: July 13, 2008, 11:51:25 pm by James R Russell »
Logged

James R Russell

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 992
    • http://www.russellrutherford.com/
P65+
« Reply #121 on: July 13, 2008, 11:50:38 pm »

Quote
If the photo of the P65+ as shown in Michael's preview article is of an actual production model, then I am quite disappointed with Phase One's continued use of the small LCD monitor screen. I would have hoped for bigger and better (and brighter?) on a $40,000 digital back!

Joe Bossuyt
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Listen to these interviews and see how important a really proper preview lcd image is.

[a href=\"http://www.red.com/interviews]http://www.red.com/interviews[/url]

No difference in cinema or stills.

As the artist we have to see what we are shooting, adjust, correct, shoot again, reload and  whether it's in a tent holding a field monitor, or a still digital tech with a computer, those types of tethered previews takes all the energy away from the scene and distance us from our subjects.

I'd pay $5,000 for a decent preview on my digital backs.  Actually (I know this will never happen) I'd suggest the camera companies just make better ones and  change them out at costs with a note that said, "uh sorry, we made a mistake, here's the correct lcd".

JR
Logged

narikin

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1417
P65+
« Reply #122 on: July 14, 2008, 12:11:10 am »

the more I think about it, the more it seems the $40,000 price looks like a correction to the US price, to bring it into line with the price in Euros that was set years ago. when the currencies were more equally pegged - but... with current exchange rates it couldnt stay that low for US customers, as it warped the global price field. so Phase seem to have taken the chance on this, their new ultimate sensor, to upgrade this US$ price to a new higher point. I imagine in the Euro zone the increase will be far less than the 33% (P45 new price c.f. P65 new list price) for US buyers.  Anyone know the euro price level - is it 33% above what it was, or not?

I guess this means that existing US$ P45+ customers have a good deal as they have a back that was sold too low $ relative to European pricing - and it should hold its value pretty well considering the new offerings price.

Of course whether other MF manufacturers play along with this gambit is another question, but Hasselblads 50mp pricing seems to indicate they are also hoping to reset to a higher point for the newest sensors.

Pretty brave gamble in the middle of a recession to do this to the worlds biggest market, but lets see!
Logged

EricWHiss

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2639
    • Rolleiflex USA
P65+
« Reply #123 on: July 14, 2008, 12:39:49 am »

deleted...
« Last Edit: July 14, 2008, 12:40:43 am by EricWHiss »
Logged
Rolleiflex USA

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13980
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
P65+
« Reply #124 on: July 14, 2008, 01:10:52 am »

Quote
the more I think about it, the more it seems the $40,000 price looks like a correction to the US price, to bring it into line with the price in Euros that was set years ago. [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=207995\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Interesing, knowing that the sensor - supposed to be by far the most expensive part - is bought from a Canadian supplier that should not be impacted much by the strong Euro...

Either Phaseone is being ripped by Dalsa, or we are being ripped by Phase.

Cheers,
Bernard

Dustbak

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2442
    • Pepperanddust
P65+
« Reply #125 on: July 14, 2008, 02:12:09 am »

Quote
Please correct me if I'm wrong Steve, but I don't believe that one can put a Leaf, Sinar or Phase One back on an H3F with functionality similar to what existed on an H1 or H2? I thought that the F stood for Film, and that's what Hasselblad's web site and literature infers.

Michael
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=207917\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The drawback was that a digital back of a 3rd party needs a sync cable however a Hasselblad CF back had full functionality. This is a sign that it is possible to use the H2F with a digital back with full functionality.

A 3rd party vendor could make that to work. Kind of like the situation that Leaf & Sinar are pointing out that the Hy6/Afi is open and that Phase could be making a mount for themselves if they would want to.
Logged

Doug Peterson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4220
    • http://www.doug-peterson.com
P65+
« Reply #126 on: July 14, 2008, 02:47:28 am »

Capture Integration will be posting further details and background to our website early tomorrow morning. I'm sure Lance, Chris, or Dave will post a link as soon as it is live.

Stay tuned...

Doug Peterson
Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer
Personal Portfolio

Doug Peterson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4220
    • http://www.doug-peterson.com
P65+
« Reply #127 on: July 14, 2008, 03:02:06 am »

No need to do the math yourself. Just use our handy focal length equivalency calculator.. I've just updated it with the P65+ sensor size.

28mm lens used with a P65+ is the same as an 18mm lens used with full-frame 35mm body (e.g. 1Ds Mark III)
35mm lens used with a P65+ is the same as a 22mm lens used with full-frame 35mm body (e.g. 1Ds Mark III)

Doug

Quote
One other thing this does is also maybe help us in the wide angles the 28mm from Mamiya and Hassy are very expensive and giving us FF now across the broad may help some of us just staying with the 35mm lenses. With this thought I maybe finding less need to run out and get a 28mm to a certain point. Not sure my math is even close but my guess now a 28mm would equal maybe a 19mm Full Frame which yes there is a need but some of use maybe able to squeeze by with a 35mm lens that will be more like a 24mm FF 35mm lens. My math maybe wrong
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=207936\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

mcfoto

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 940
    • http://montalbetticampbell.com
P65+
« Reply #128 on: July 14, 2008, 03:28:39 am »

Hi
With the P 65+ having a larger sensor & there association with Mamiya this will be good news for the RZ 67 camera users.
Denis
Logged
Denis Montalbetti
Montalbetti+Campbell [

RobertJ

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 706
P65+
« Reply #129 on: July 14, 2008, 03:51:37 am »

Quote
Hi
With the P 65+ having a larger sensor & there association with Mamiya this will be good news for the RZ 67 camera users.
Denis
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=208018\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yeah, kind of, but why do you say this now?

The RZ67 is, and has been, one of THE BEST systems to use a digital back with because of the high quality lenses, the focusing, viewfinder, flash sync speed, rotating back, and interchangeable viewfinders.
Logged

Tim Lüdin

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 57
    • http://www.timage.ch
P65+
« Reply #130 on: July 14, 2008, 04:28:46 am »

What about the new LCDs? Do they still suck?
As a RED owner I cant believe this anymore.
My RED LCD is around 1700 bucks and it kicks ass big time.
I  thought about mounting it on my stillcam that would be killer.
At least the DB makers could provide some plugs to put our own LCDs in.

As James mentioned, I also would pay up to 5000 bucks to get a nice LCD for a DB.
Those 5000$ would be wise spent. How can RED do it, but all the DB makers can't.
RED sells about 3500 cams this year. Dont tell me about volume. There are lots of tricks to get your LCDs cheap if you need them. Ever heard about group buy?

Let's write a letter to all DB makers and tell them to buy their LCDs in a group buy with the other makers.  
Maybe  then we will get some great LCDs on our backs. Damn.

Tim
« Last Edit: July 14, 2008, 04:30:12 am by Tim Lüdin »
Logged
Cinematographer & Photographer
[url=http

tom_l

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 221
    • http://www.tomlucas.net
P65+
« Reply #131 on: July 14, 2008, 05:36:35 am »

http://www.phaseone.com/

it's official now

what are "upgradeable CCD functions,"?
Lens+ Focus+ Sensor+...money+??
The usual marketing talk i guess

maybe the screen IS better? and they forgot to mention.
They really can't put larger screens in there, without re-designing the back. The 4 button design is easy and everthing, but it came with the original P20/P25 and i was quite sure that it would be redesigned this time. It's probably not an easy task: where to put a large sensor, a large screen, a battery, (for some) an internal memory, some buttons, in a back that can't be larger than a 645 film cassette.
Lets' be positive, maybe the Dalsa chip finally allows us shifting and tilting without CC correction, something P1 should have mentioned in their marketing talk.


Tom
Logged

paul_jones

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 574
    • http://www.paulrossjones.com
P65+
« Reply #132 on: July 14, 2008, 05:36:50 am »

Quote
What about the new LCDs? Do they still suck?
As a RED owner I cant believe this anymore.
My RED LCD is around 1700 bucks and it kicks ass big time.
I  thought about mounting it on my stillcam that would be killer.
At least the DB makers could provide some plugs to put our own LCDs in.

As James mentioned, I also would pay up to 5000 bucks to get a nice LCD for a DB.
Those 5000$ would be wise spent. How can RED do it, but all the DB makers can't.
RED sells about 3500 cams this year. Dont tell me about volume. There are lots of tricks to get your LCDs cheap if you need them. Ever heard about group buy?

Let's write a letter to all DB makers and tell them to buy their LCDs in a group buy with the other makers.  
Maybe  then we will get some great LCDs on our backs. Damn.

Tim
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=208025\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

why just add av out? ive been using a small 8 inch lcd attached to the side of my canon when its in rigs that i cant get access to. its not a bad picture, and its large.
phase could sell a seperate back sized screen to click onto the back.

paul
Logged
check my new website
[url=http://www.pau

samuel_js

  • Guest
P65+
« Reply #133 on: July 14, 2008, 05:49:09 am »

Quote
Interesing, knowing that the sensor - supposed to be by far the most expensive part - is bought from a Canadian supplier that should not be impacted much by the strong Euro...

Either Phaseone is being ripped by Dalsa, or we are being ripped by Phase.

Cheers,
Bernard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=208002\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Bernard, we europeans has been ripped of for a long time now. The price of the new P65 is almost the same (actually cheaper) as a new P45+ kit. That means they are actually lowering their prices. From our eyes of course....
Logged

HarperPhotos

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1309
    • http://www.harperphoto.com
P65+
« Reply #134 on: July 14, 2008, 06:43:24 am »

Gidday,

All ready talking to the Phase rep in New Zealand.

Hope I get a good trade in on my Aptus 75.

Simon
Logged
Simon Harper
Harper Photographics Ltd
http://www.harperphoto.com
http://www.facebook.com/harper.photographics

Auckland, New Zealand

Tim Lüdin

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 57
    • http://www.timage.ch
P65+
« Reply #135 on: July 14, 2008, 08:17:35 am »

Quote
why just add av out? ive been using a small 8 inch lcd attached to the side of my canon when its in rigs that i cant get access to. its not a bad picture, and its large.
phase could sell a seperate back sized screen to click onto the back.

paul
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=208032\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Great idea Paul. That's what I ment. They sould provide us with an av out that gives a high resolution picture out of the cam.
The RED gives you a full hd out even with 120fps. Razor sharp. So this shouldn't be a problem for a DB. Now that would be a great on set control monitor for our stillcams.

Tim
Logged
Cinematographer & Photographer
[url=http

Graham Mitchell

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2281
P65+
« Reply #136 on: July 14, 2008, 08:19:37 am »

Quote
Great idea Paul. That's what I ment. They sould provide us with an av out that gives a high resolution picture out of the cam.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=208042\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

So why not just shoot tethered? That brings other advantages with it.
Logged

michael

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5084
P65+
« Reply #137 on: July 14, 2008, 08:27:31 am »

I've been bitching and moaning about the poor screen on the P backs for years. The new screens on the Plus backs were a minor improvement at best.

Whenever I've raised the issue with Phase management or engineers what I'm told is that the problem is both heat and battery life. The larger and brighter the screen the more heat it generates and the greater its effect on image quality. Also, the larger and brighter the screen the more battery drain, and Phase backs are already battery vampires.

It would seem to me that the new OLED screens would address both issues, but who knows? There may be sourcing and supply issues, or technical ones which we are not aware of.

Speaking more generally, it amazes me when people think that camera companies are not aware of what their customers are saying. Maybe in the case of the Japanese companies they are a bit more insular, but I know that their European and American management make sure regularly that the factories know what their customers are saying.

In the case of companies like Phase One, and the others like Sinar and Leaf and Hasselblad, their management is VERY aware of what is being said by their dealers and customers, as well as on forums such as this.

But knowing that you have a shitty screen isn't enough. You then have to solve the supply, manufacturing and technical issues. Sometimes there are factors involved which we as simple users are not aware of. In previous lives I've run medium to large high-tech companies (two of them public) and am well aware of the push / pull that these factors exert on management and engineering. Things aren't always the way that they appear from the outside.

And as for the pricing issue, which Bernard has been harping on, all I can say is that Phase One is owned and run by its management team. There's no outside board, and no mega-corporation behind the scenes and who might have other agendas calling the shots. One can only assume that Phase, like other management owned and run companies, are driven by the desire to succeed, which means making the best products that they can and subsequently making the most money that they can for their shareholders (themselves). If that means selling a product at a price which seems to high to some, then there obviously is a reason for this. Spreadsheet jockeying is easy. One can make assumptions about sales volumes, material and manufacturing costs and decide how best to price a product.

As potential consumers we can then decide whether or not the price / value relationship works for us or not. But to assume that the people that make these decisions are stupid is to miss the point. They're not. The just have taken the factors available to them and made certain (hard) decisions.

Sometimes they're right, and sometimes they're wrong. It's as easy as that, or as hard as that, because sometimes making what turns out to be the best decision isn't always easy. A good case in point is one that I've harped on for the past two years in which a certain camera company made a product / marketing decision which I found at fault, and I've said so publicly on more than one occasion. Am I right and their management wrong? We don't know yet. But in any event, if they're right or wrong their jobs and livelihoods depend on it, not to mention their shareholders interests. If I turn out to be right or wrong I simply smile, or say mea culpa, depending on the result.

Being a pundit vs being a manager is a bit like the situation at the breakfast table for the pig and the chicken.

The chicken is involved. The pig is committed. In this case we're the chickens – interested, but not as commited as the pigs.

Michael
Logged

Guy Mancuso

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1133
    • http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/index.php
P65+
« Reply #138 on: July 14, 2008, 08:31:29 am »

Quote
No need to do the math yourself. Just use our handy focal length equivalency calculator.. I've just updated it with the P65+ sensor size.

28mm lens used with a P65+ is the same as an 18mm lens used with full-frame 35mm body (e.g. 1Ds Mark III)
35mm lens used with a P65+ is the same as a 22mm lens used with full-frame 35mm body (e.g. 1Ds Mark III)

Doug
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=208016\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Thanks Doug i was somewhat close but those new focal lengths are pretty powerful. I forgot I had that calculator myself in my office.
Logged
[url=http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showt

rainer_v

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1194
    • http://www.tangential.de
P65+
« Reply #139 on: July 14, 2008, 08:59:57 am »

Quote
I've been bitching and moaning about the poor screen on the P backs for years. The new screens on the Plus backs were a minor improvement at best.

Whenever I've raised the issue with Phase management or engineers what I'm told is that the problem is both heat and battery life. The larger and brighter the screen the more heat it generates and the greater its effect on image quality. Also, the larger and brighter the screen the more battery drain, and Phase backs are already battery vampires.

Michael
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=208045\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

one of the best screens i have seen is on my little fuji f30. its 3", very bright and sharp and ....
the little battery in this camera is by far the most longlife battery i ever saw. you can make holidays with one battery without recharging it.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2008, 09:01:38 am by rainer_v »
Logged
rainer viertlböck
architecture photograp
Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7] 8 9 ... 17   Go Up