Topic: P65+ (Read 125716 times)

Kumar · « **Reply #80 on:** July 12, 2008, 10:44:02 pm »

What we need is a 'View Camera' approach to all of this. My Sinar F2 is also a C, and a P2. I can put on any lens I want, any format/type of film from 645 to 4x5. I can use lenses and film backs from Hasselblad or Mamiya.The lens doesn't have a shutter? No problem - I can use a Sinar shutter, or ye olde lens cap, if it's a long enough exposure.

If only someone could come up with a digital MF version of this....

Kumar

TMARK · « **Reply #81 on:** July 12, 2008, 11:15:49 pm »

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I'm sure the software is PT, but that 'nice board' is an SSL, i'll bet they have neve and a bunch
of other pre amps to compliment and i suspect that they have different convertors as well.

Just trying to illustrate here that the conversation is about photography HARDWARE, people are not
discussing photoshop which is really what pro tools is to the recording industry world.
Despite trying to have a strangle hold on hardware.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=207721\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks for the clarification re: ProTools. The studio is pretty incredible. The guy in the pics is a producer/engineer.

BernardLanguillier · « **Reply #82 on:** July 12, 2008, 11:43:52 pm »

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What we need is a 'View Camera' approach to all of this. My Sinar F2 is also a C, and a P2. I can put on any lens I want, any format/type of film from 645 to 4x5. I can use lenses and film backs from Hasselblad or Mamiya.The lens doesn't have a shutter? No problem - I can use a Sinar shutter, or ye olde lens cap, if it's a long enough exposure.

If only someone could come up with a digital MF version of this....

Kumar
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=207739\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

If anytjing, MF is getting less and less open everyday.

Cheers,
Bernard

michele · « **Reply #83 on:** July 13, 2008, 10:45:10 am »

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P65+ to be announce on monday by phaseone, 60.5 mpg, sensor size 53,9x40,4, pixel pitch 6x6 micron, 50-800 iso, 1 fps, no info about sensor manufacturer. EC price 26.900 euros +tax. delivery supposed to start in Q4 of 2008.
this is all i know, peter
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=207256\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well, think about the difraction of lenses... for almost everything printed you need a 50mb 8bit tiff file. Now you can get an almost 200mb file, it means that you can take pictures framing just in the center of the sensor having a total depth of field with f/5.6 ( so beautiful sharpness), than crop the image and still have a very usable file. Of course you need a lot of hard disk for the storage, but guys, as we say in Italy, you can't have the wife drunk and the cask full...
(my apoligise for my english...)

michele

hubell · « **Reply #84 on:** July 13, 2008, 03:41:56 pm »

Excuse me, but I just fell in my swimming pool laughing and am drying off after reading MR's description of the new P65. After two years of listening to the sanctimonius cries of foul by Phase about Hasselblad turning its back on the medium format community by closing the H3D, I learn that Phase has contracted to obtain EXCLUSIVE rights to the latest Dalsa chip! That's right, Leaf and Sinar cannot obtain the latest chip technology from the long term supplier that they have supported and relied on in recent years.
However, I do like the news. The best result would be 4 chip makers supplying chips to MFDB makers, because then we would really have 4 choices to pick among. Me too chips is less than ideal. I fully expect Hasselblad, Leaf and Sinar to respond with their own version of a full frame 645 chip.

rainer_v · « **Reply #85 on:** July 13, 2008, 04:19:13 pm »

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Excuse me, but I just fell in my swimming pool laughing and am drying off after reading MR's description of the new P65. After two years of listening to the sanctimonius cries of foul by Phase about Hasselblad turning its back on the medium format community by closing the H3D, I learn that Phase has contracted to obtain EXCLUSIVE rights to the latest Dalsa chip! That's right, Leaf and Sinar cannot obtain the latest chip technology from the long term supplier that they have supported and relied on in recent years.
However, I do like the news. The best result would be 4 chip makers supplying chips to MFDB makers, because then we would really have 4 choices to pick among. Me too chips is less than ideal. I fully expect Hasselblad, Leaf and Sinar to respond with their own version of a full frame 645 chip.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=207882\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

lets see how the chip will behave in terms of centerfold. as far i know till this moment stefan is the only person who was able to write a code for removing it on the fly. i am waiting to see ( ) how the new dalsa will act ....
and i would not be surprised if leaf ( at least ) and maybe also sinar have seen enough of this unresolved and heavy issue ( because it should have been solved by dalsa not by software from the back manufactors ) would not to be sad to leave the dalsa platform for a while.

samuel_js · « **Reply #86 on:** July 13, 2008, 04:24:42 pm »

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I learn that Phase has contracted to obtain EXCLUSIVE rights to the latest Dalsa chip! That's right, Leaf and Sinar cannot obtain the latest chip technology from the long term supplier that they have supported and relied on in recent years.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=207882\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

If that's the case I think it's great. It will make Hasselblad, Sinar and Leaf think about whatt they have been doing. Not that I like closed systems, I hate the idea, but this is just the result of starting a war. Prepare to fight.... Boring, but that's the way they wanted to have it.

samuel_js · « **Reply #87 on:** July 13, 2008, 04:32:41 pm »

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The music industry is suffering just as much as photography if not far more.
Digidesign business practices suffer extremely bad press. Locking out basic features
in cheaper systems that are standard in equivalent apps for the same price point.

Digidesign is like Apple. A hardware company that happens to have great software.
Their software is locked down in terms of what hardware can be used which is how
they make their money, but their convertors are middle of the road at best.
Analog to digital conversion is an important step in both photography and music
recording but ultimately the 'driver' has much more say in the final result.
I've seen/heard stellar results produced on very average equipment.

For disclosure, i use and own an HD2 accel system from Digidesign.
I love the software but have added alternative hardware for conversion.
Which is very common.

Sorry for being off-topic.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=207717\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You can use Protools with other soundcards like M-Audio (PT M-Powered). Protools hardware can be used with any software. And you can connect protools hardware to whatever you want.
When you buy from Digidesign you buy hardware, and you get the best software in the market for free. I don't see that as a locked down system.

michael · « **Reply #88 on:** July 13, 2008, 04:49:37 pm »

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I learn that Phase has contracted to obtain EXCLUSIVE rights to the latest Dalsa chip!

Well, one could interpret it that way, except that it would simply be wrong.

This is not a new chip from Dalsa that Phase One has obtained exclusive rights to, as you incorrectly state. It is a chip designed by Phase One in cooperation with Dalsa, using Phase One technology and patents, which is then being fabricated for Phase One by Dalsa.

There is quite a difference between this and what you have stated, and to my mind little if any similarity to Hasselblad's closing of their once open camera system to competing backs.

Michael

Quentin · « **Reply #89 on:** July 13, 2008, 04:53:08 pm »

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Well, one could interpret it that way, except that it would simply be wrong.

This is not a new chip from Dalsa that Phase One has obtained exclusive rights to, as you incorrectly state. It is a chip designed by Phase One in cooperation with Dalsa, and which is then being fabricated for Phase One by Dalsa.

There is quite a difference between this and what you have stated, and to my mind little if any similarity to Hasselblad's closing of their once open camera system to competing backs.

Michael
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=207906\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

In which case, I want one, even if I have to part exchange body parts to do so.

Quentin

narikin · « **Reply #90 on:** July 13, 2008, 05:04:00 pm »

it sounds great, but... OUCH - that price US$40,000 !!!

any word on what the trade up from a P45+ is going to be Michael?

its a whole new world at that level - we all grumbled at the $28-30k level for 39mp, but now its a new paradigm of pricing. I suspect its also got something to do with harmonising the dollar and euro prices, as they had got too far out of whack with Europeans paying 10,000 Euros more than US photogs for the same back. I expect its a lot closer at this level, and the US price hike to $40k is maybe not such a price hike to Europeans.

Guy Mancuso · « **Reply #91 on:** July 13, 2008, 05:17:16 pm »

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Well, one could interpret it that way, except that it would simply be wrong.

This is not a new chip from Dalsa that Phase One has obtained exclusive rights to, as you incorrectly state. It is a chip designed by Phase One in cooperation with Dalsa, using Phase One technology and patents, which is then being fabricated for Phase One by Dalsa.

There is quite a difference between this and what you have stated, and to my mind little if any similarity to Hasselblad's closing of their once open camera system to competing backs.

Michael
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=207906\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I agree this is a different situation than Hassy way of doing business. I think this will actually if anything open a lot of doors for Phase in further development of backs for them.

pprdigital · « **Reply #92 on:** July 13, 2008, 05:35:26 pm »

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Well, one could interpret it that way, except that it would simply be wrong.

This is not a new chip from Dalsa that Phase One has obtained exclusive rights to, as you incorrectly state. It is a chip designed by Phase One in cooperation with Dalsa, using Phase One technology and patents, which is then being fabricated for Phase One by Dalsa.

There is quite a difference between this and what you have stated, and to my mind little if any similarity to Hasselblad's closing of their once open camera system to competing backs.

Michael
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=207906\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes - it appears similar to what Sinar and Kodak did with the 22MP chip. This Kodak chip was co-developed with Sinar and Sinar did hold exclusivity for a period of time.

But if we're being precise here, I also would have to question the interpretation of Hasselblad's camera system as "once open, now closed (paraphrasing)". It's true that Hasselblad has not made the 28mm HCD lens available for whatever reason to non-Hasselblad digital backs. But Hasselblad does still produce open platform cameras for 3rd party digital back makers with the 503CW and H2F series cameras.

The HxD camera was never an open camera system from the start with the H1D, and in fact, it is designed to be an integrated digital camera with a matching Hasselblad digital back. This in no way has any affect on whether you can put a 3rd party digital back on a Hasselblad H camera - either H1/H2 or H2F. And this continues with new technology like the HTS 1.5 adapter, which is backwards compatible with all H1/H2/H2F and HxD cameras, regardless of the digital back component.

So, I would question the term "once open camera system".

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php

lance_schad · « **Reply #93 on:** July 13, 2008, 05:38:56 pm »

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I agree this is a different situation than Hassy way of doing business. I think this will actually if anything open a lot of doors for Phase in further development of backs for them.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=207910\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Also it's nice to see that it will work on all camera bodies currently supported.

Lance

EricWHiss · « **Reply #94 on:** July 13, 2008, 05:39:46 pm »

Of course this new information that Phase was involved or even driving the design of the sensor in their new back clears both Kodak and Dalsa from any fault or blame in misunderstanding the needs of MFDB shooters or from failing to do proper market research. Now it can all rest on the shoulders of Phase One - let's hope they deliver!

rainer_v · « **Reply #95 on:** July 13, 2008, 05:41:55 pm »

after reading michaels announcment i think it sounds great what will do this back.
i agree that one of the best features is the pixel binning, lets see which image quality it will make in the 30mp mode, i expect great things here. for now i wait if leaf and/ or sinar will bring similar improved backs.

but - as i wrote above - i will wait with any opinion till i see if the new backs ( doesnt matter from whom ) will work without any heavy drawbacks, as happened too often in the past with new products. i dont have any tolerance about bringing out products before they are ready for serial productions, wasting a lot of money and time of photographers meanwhile using them as beta testers.
but maybe the back makers have learned from the past, although i seriously doubt it.

michael · « **Reply #96 on:** July 13, 2008, 05:45:39 pm »

Please correct me if I'm wrong Steve, but I don't believe that one can put a Leaf, Sinar or Phase One back on an H3F with functionality similar to what existed on an H1 or H2? I thought that the F stood for Film, and that's what Hasselblad's web site and literature infers.

Michael

juicy · « **Reply #97 on:** July 13, 2008, 05:47:39 pm »

Hi,
Is there a small typo in P65 preview description stating the shipping time of H3DII-50 to be early 2009? This was extensively discussed (with some humor ) less than week ago here that it's scheduled for delivery in October 2008.

Game on!
J

michael · « **Reply #98 on:** July 13, 2008, 05:49:58 pm »

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Also it's nice to see that it will work on a bodies currently supported.

Lance

Exactly. If Phase had made the P65+ only available on their new camera body I along with everyone else would scream bloody murder, because it would be cynically closing the system. Fortunately, the new back will be available for all currently supported cameras, including those from Phase One, Mamiya, Contax, Hasselblad V and in Hasselblad H1 and H2 configurations.

Michael

michael · « **Reply #99 on:** July 13, 2008, 05:53:30 pm »

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Hi,
Is there a small typo in P65 preview description stating the shipping time of H3DII-50 to be early 2009? This was extensively discussed (with some humor ) less than week ago here that it's scheduled for delivery in October 2008.

Game on!
J
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=207918\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

My mistake. I've now corrected the article. My understanding of early 2009 was based on an interview I had about 10 days ago with a senior representative from Kodak's sensor division in which I was told that the chip was in sampling now but wouldn't be delivered in quantity till the end of the year.

If Hasselblad is saying delivery in October then I accept that at face value.

Michael

Author Topic: P65+ (Read 125716 times)

samuel_js

samuel_js