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Author Topic: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine  (Read 107053 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #720 on: April 03, 2021, 11:59:42 pm »

Here's the summary of recommendations from CDC for those who are fully vaccinated. Which part do find confusing?

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated
I read the Yahoo article which is confusing.  Most people see Yahoo or some TV program that are confusing.  99.9% of people don't read the CDC;s official site.

Quote
Here's an example of my point.  CDC says one thing.  Then they qualify it. Then the president, who tells everyone to listen to the experts, overrides the CDC and qualifies their qualifications.  So what should the poor guy who's trying to get on with life make of these confusing and contradictory edicts?  It's a joke.  Of course, since Biden is overriding experts, and not Trump, the press gives him a pass.


CDC tells vaccinated Americans travel is 'low risk,' as Biden urges caution amid rising infection numbers
While appearing to condone travel, CDC Director Rochelle Walensky still urged even vaccinated Americans to remain at home as case numbers continue to rise, a message that could be confusing for people weighing visits to family or vacation spots.

Speaking from the White House earlier on Friday afternoon in celebration of both jobs gained and coronavirus vaccinations administered throughout the course of March, President Biden also offered a cautious message. “The progress we’ve worked so hard to achieve can be reversed,” he said, speaking of both economic and pandemic-related developments.

“Too many Americans are acting as if this fight is over,” Biden warned a few minutes later. “It is not.”

The White House did not respond to a Yahoo News inquiry regarding whether the president agreed with the new CDC guidance. Such seemingly contradictory messages have marked the response to the coronavirus at all levels of government. Much as every elected official has vowed to “listen to the science,” science and politics rarely walk hand in hand.
https://news.yahoo.com/cdc-tells-vaccinated-american-travel-is-low-risk-as-biden-urges-caution-amid-rising-infection-numbers-185026202.html

TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #721 on: April 04, 2021, 02:24:11 am »

Sorry, this bus is too crowded for me. I'm leaving you, and "Yahoo", and "TV", and "the CDC", and their "official site", and "Biden", and "Trump, and "the press", and "Rochelle Walensky", and "people weighing visits to family or vacation spots", and the "White House", and "all levels of government", and "every elected official", and "science", and "politics" to finish this ride together or walk hand-in-hand.

But, I'm getting off. This is where I got on and the bus hasn't moved in hours. It's only taken on more passengers.

Best of luck and have a safe trip.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 02:36:06 am by TechTalk »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #722 on: April 04, 2021, 05:08:59 am »

... The guidance is that nobody should travel unless absolutely necessary...

 ;D ;D ;D 

Sorry, Chris, I am not laughing at you, you know I like you, but at the absolutely idiotic, dystopian, Orwellian “guidance.”

Jesus, people, live your life! Travel (millions have been doing that), laugh with friends, get together, go out. Your chances of NOT getting infected are 95%-ish, your chances or surviving if you do are even better, 99%-ish. It is a virus. Microscopic. It might get to you no matter what you do. Fascist states, like CA and NY, have no better results than free states, like FL. European states with harsh mask and lockdown mandates have no better results (and often worse) than those with less restrictive measures. The same state, regardless of having strict or lax mask usage, will experience ups and downs in cases due to other factors (a proof mask mandates are irrelevant). I have friends who put their life on pause for a year, lived a panicky and miserable life, and still got infected. Get vaccinated. Wear a mask when absolutely necessary (not to virtue signal): in crowded, poorly ventilated spaces, when exposed to strangers in close proximity for more than 10-15 minutes.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #723 on: April 04, 2021, 05:11:35 am »

Seriously, if you've survived COVID-19, get a blood and urine test done to check on the health and function of your internal organs (kidneys, liver, etc.) Or just do it anyway if you don't do it regularly (ie yearly) as early signs of prostate cancer can show up there too. Talk to your doctor.

Well, thanks. That’s a sound advice in general. It’s been a year. Absolutely no after effects.

LesPalenik

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #724 on: April 04, 2021, 07:23:40 am »

Seriously, if you've survived COVID-19, get a blood and urine test done to check on the health and function of your internal organs (kidneys, liver, etc.) Or just do it anyway if you don't do it regularly (ie yearly) as early signs of prostate cancer can show up there too. Talk to your doctor.

Apparently. Covid-19 virus can damage also brain.

Quote
COVID-19 symptoms can sometimes persist for months. The virus can damage the lungs, heart and brain, which increases the risk of long-term health problems.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #725 on: April 04, 2021, 07:41:25 am »

Apparently. Covid-19 virus can damage also brain....

As can a prolonged participation in LuLa forums.

dreed

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #726 on: April 04, 2021, 08:21:14 am »

As can a prolonged participation in LuLa forums.

 ;D  ;D  ;D
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LesPalenik

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #727 on: April 04, 2021, 10:43:40 am »

As can a prolonged participation in LuLa forums.

Right! The first manifestation of such a condition is usually a switch from Coffee Corner to Wet Darkroom.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #728 on: April 04, 2021, 11:44:13 am »

Rather than the CDC telling us it's OK to travel but you'd be safer not traveling, would be if they said nothing at all.

It's always safer to not travel then to travel.  This is nothing but them stating a truism to try and further panic. 

The CDC under the current administration, IMO, can not be taken seriously.  The director at first said going back to school was okay, but then changed her tune the following week based on nothing but talks with teacher unions (by her own admission).  That is not science, but engaging in politics. 

It use to be that the CDC would list the infection fatality rates by age on their website.  I was on there this week and that was taken down and replaced by the likelihood you would die from C-19 compared to a reference group of 5 to 17 year olds.  I believe my age group was 130x more likely to die from it then the reference group.  Sounds scary, until you realize 5 to 17 years are not dying from this, so that really small probability times 130 is still a really small probability.  So this is specifically being used to make the disease look more scary then it is for those under 55.  Once again, not science, but politics. 

Trump may have tried to push the CDC in certain directions, but Biden is clearly forcing them to align with his politics.  Even Fauci is giving in, not that I have had any respect for him since his famous "NY did everything right" line last summer.  It is obvious now they are doing this to try and force through stupid policies, since you can never let a good crisis go to waste, right? 

God help us if vaccine passports become required.  That's just what I want to do, share my medical information with oh so trustworthy private tech companies.  Not to mention that I would need to always have my phone on me (and charged), not something I always do. 

In my opinion, if your older and not vaccinated, you should probably not travel too much.  If you are vaccinated, well you only have a little more time left on this planet, and there is no reason to waste it held up in your house.  This is the opinion of my parents, and much to my brother's chagrin, they will be traveling this year. 
« Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 11:51:06 am by JoeKitchen »
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #729 on: April 04, 2021, 11:56:02 am »

The CDC under the current administration, IMO, can not be taken seriously.  The director at first said going back to school was okay, but then changed her tune the following week based on nothing but talks with teacher unions (by her own admission).  That is not science, but engaging in politics. 

You made this same false claim recently which I showed you was false with verbatim transcript quotes. Why make it again? Didn't think anyone would notice or you forgot?

https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=136697.msg1208947#msg1208947
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #730 on: April 04, 2021, 11:59:50 am »

You made this same false claim recently which I showed you was false with verbatim transcript quotes. Why make it again? Didn't think anyone would notice or you forgot?

She very specifically said that children can be back in school without teachers being vaccinated. 

Psaki was asked about this the same week, and Psaki said the director was speaking from a personal position. 

The next week the guidance was suddenly changed on the CDC website, because they had talked to parent and school administration personal (aka teacher unions). 

This is not a false accusation, and it is pretty obvious why the change was made, pure politics.  All the science shows kids should be back in school and doing so does not increase spread, especially for grade and middle schools.  The current guidance from the CDC would close 99% of all schools.  They are not following the science here, but politics. 
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #731 on: April 04, 2021, 12:02:17 pm »

You made this same...

I thought you got off this bus!?

TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #732 on: April 04, 2021, 12:03:48 pm »

You are really not paying attention then. 

Two weeks the head of the CDC issued a statement in which she said schools are safe to reopen.  Jen Psaki was asked about this the day after and she said the director was speaking in her own person position (even though it was a CDC press conference).  This past Friday at 5 PM, the CDC changed the reopening policies for schools in which they admitted that took advice from teachers on what the policies would be. 

This is blatant political manipulation of the CDC.

https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=136697.msg1208947#msg1208947

What the CDC director said is NOT "schools are safe to reopen" the remarks were around a question regarding vaccination priorities and teachers and the statement was that "there is increasing data to suggest that schools can safely reopen". Also, she said "taken under recommendation guidance from the states" regarding the prioritization of vaccines NOT "advice from teachers on what the policies would be". And, the latest CDC guidance did NOT contradict the statements made about schools and teacher vaccinations. Just the opposite, the guidance was in agreement with Walensky’s statement that schools could reopen before teachers had been vaccinated. If you think that I'm not paying attention that's fine, but let's get the facts straight.

Question: Great.  I wondered if we could get an update on vaccine prioritization.  I know under the previous administration this was largely left up to states to decide when they wanted to move to the next levels of priority.  But we’re seeing a lot of states open this up for teachers, and it’s kind of created a patchwork.  And I just wondered if the federal government would be working more closely with states to kind of get more vaccinations to teachers in particular so that schools can reopen in the fall.

DR. WALENSKY: Yeah, thank you for that question.  You know, the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices has created these guides — this guidance for how we should be thinking about prioritizing among all essential workers and all of the population at large.

You know, those have been taken under recommendation — guidance from the states, and then the states are creating their own individual plans.  And, you know, those plans have to, sort of, be in sync with how they are able to titrate, really, their supply versus the number of people who are wanting it.  We don’t want to be too prescriptive so that they have these queues of people, and yet we don’t want to be too open so that they also have queues of people.  We don’t want to have too much supply on the shelf.

So we’ve left that to the states to manage, in terms of recognizing the prioritization of ACIP, but also manage at their own local level.

That said, I want to be very clear about schools, which is: Yes, ACIP has put teachers in the 1b category, the category of essential workers.  But I also want to be clear that there is increasing data to suggest that schools can safely reopen and that that safe reopening does not suggest that teachers need to be vaccinated in order to reopen safely.

So while we are implementing the criteria of the Advisory Committee and of the state and local guidances to get vaccination across these eligible communities, I would also say that safe reopening of schools is not — that vaccination of teachers is not a prerequisite for safe reopening of schools.

MR. ZIENTS:  Yeah, let me just add here.  You know, President Biden has been very clear that he wants schools to reopen and actually to stay open.  And that means that every school has the equipment and the resources to open safely — not just private schools or schools in wealthy areas, but all schools.  And that’s why we need the American Rescue Plan passed now.  It includes money to get schools better access to testing, enables smaller class sizes, acquire the necessary ventilation, ensure everyone has PPE, and that schools are properly sanitized.  It also includes much-needed funds to support the learning and social, emotional needs of our kids in what has been an extremely, extremely difficult year. So again, Congress has to do its part in order to make sure that we can safely reopen schools and keep them open.

Is there muddled messaging coming from the administration? Yes there is. That does not equate to "blatant political manipulation of the CDC". If anything, it shows that the CDC director isn't being muzzled; that the administration is new; and that getting information out unfiltered is a higher priority right now than everyone singing from the same hymnal.

Like I said, messaging has benn muddled. For an editorial critique of that muddled messaging you can read commentary here from yesterday...

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2021-02-18/editorial-covid-19-school-reopening
« Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 12:06:51 pm by TechTalk »
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #733 on: April 04, 2021, 12:08:26 pm »

I thought you got off this bus!?

I got off the ride that Alan was taking. I asked a straightforward question and got everyone and everything but the kitchen sink in reply.
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Chris Kern

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #734 on: April 04, 2021, 12:13:53 pm »

Your chances of NOT getting infected are 95%-ish . . .

Currently, the best available current evidence from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is that the two mRNA vaccines (from Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna) are 90 percent effective in preventing infection after a second dose and 80 percent effective after only one dose.  These data, from a real-world study of medical care providers and other "first responders" between mid-December and mid-March, are consistent with the results from the respective clinical trials of the two vaccines; the slightly lower effectiveness estimates probably reflect the fact that the real-world study checked for infections among asymptomatic as well as symptomatic individuals while the clinical trials only counted those who contracted symptomatic COVID-19.  Still, these are remarkably good results for any vaccine.

It's still not clear how likely infected vaccinated individuals are to transmit the SARS-CoV-2 virus to others or whether the vaccines' effectiveness is significantly reduced against some of the recent, more aggressive mutations of the virus that were first discovered in the United Kingdom, South Africa, and Brazil.  Both Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna reportedly are developing modified mRNA doses that are specifically targeted at these mutations and which could, if necessary, be administered as a second "booster" dose.  (There is some evidence from its clinical trials that the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, based on a different technology—an adenovirus vector—provides good protection from the the first two of these variants.)

JoeKitchen

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #735 on: April 04, 2021, 12:17:10 pm »

I got off the ride that Alan was taking. I asked a straightforward question and got everyone and everything but the kitchen sink in reply.

You missed some: 

On or around Feb. 3rd, she said, “There is increasing data to suggest that schools can safely reopen and that safe reopening does not suggest that teachers need to be vaccinated ... Vaccinations of teachers is not a prerequisite for safely reopening schools.”  That is pretty clear cut. 

Schools can safely reopen without vaccinating teachers, CDC says

Then on February 4th, Jen Psaki walks the director backwards by saying “Dr. Walensky spoke to this in her personal capacity,” Psaki said. “Obviously, she’s the head of the CDC, but we’re going to wait for the final guidance to come out.”  I look at this as a massive insult towards Dr. Walensky, especially since she was talking in front of CDC logos, not in her personal capacity, and not to mention she is a doctor while Psaki is just a media personality, and an obvious signal the administration was going to dictate what the guidance should be. 

Then the following week, we got the new guidance, which, if followed, would require 99% of schools nationwide to close down even though 50+% were open at the time. 

It is obvious the administration stepped and "guided" the CDC on what to do due to concerns from teachers unions.  After the guidance came out, many experts in the private sector rejected them for being too stringent and difficult to achieve. 

Now if you want to get bogged down in the minutia of things to try and obscure the clearly obvious 30K foot view, that being we are not following the science but politics instead, be my guest.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 12:22:33 pm by JoeKitchen »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #736 on: April 04, 2021, 12:35:49 pm »

It's always safer to not travel then to travel.  This is nothing but them stating a truism to try and further panic. 

The CDC under the current administration, IMO, can not be taken seriously.  The director at first said going back to school was okay, but then changed her tune the following week based on nothing but talks with teacher unions (by her own admission).  That is not science, but engaging in politics. 

It use to be that the CDC would list the infection fatality rates by age on their website.  I was on there this week and that was taken down and replaced by the likelihood you would die from C-19 compared to a reference group of 5 to 17 year olds.  I believe my age group was 130x more likely to die from it then the reference group.  Sounds scary, until you realize 5 to 17 years are not dying from this, so that really small probability times 130 is still a really small probability.  So this is specifically being used to make the disease look more scary then it is for those under 55.  Once again, not science, but politics. 

Trump may have tried to push the CDC in certain directions, but Biden is clearly forcing them to align with his politics.  Even Fauci is giving in, not that I have had any respect for him since his famous "NY did everything right" line last summer. It is obvious now they are doing this to try and force through stupid policies, since you can never let a good crisis go to waste, right? 

God help us if vaccine passports become required.  That's just what I want to do, share my medical information with oh so trustworthy private tech companies.  Not to mention that I would need to always have my phone on me (and charged), not something I always do. 

In my opinion, if your older and not vaccinated, you should probably not travel too much.  If you are vaccinated, well you only have a little more time left on this planet, and there is no reason to waste it held up in your house.  This is the opinion of my parents, and much to my brother's chagrin, they will be traveling this year. 
Well, Fauci is trying to get on the Emmy committee. 

My wife and I are looking to travel in the Fall, maybe, overseas.  We might need some sort of vaccine "passport" that would make it easier to get in and out of various countries. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #737 on: April 04, 2021, 12:39:33 pm »

She very specifically said that children can be back in school without teachers being vaccinated. 

Psaki was asked about this the same week, and Psaki said the director was speaking from a personal position. 

The next week the guidance was suddenly changed on the CDC website, because they had talked to parent and school administration personal (aka teacher unions). 

This is not a false accusation, and it is pretty obvious why the change was made, pure politics.  All the science shows kids should be back in school and doing so does not increase spread, especially for grade and middle schools.  The current guidance from the CDC would close 99% of all schools.  They are not following the science here, but politics. 
It never was about science with the Democrats.  It was always politics.  The only thing that's changed is now they're in power.

Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #738 on: April 04, 2021, 12:41:33 pm »

https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=136697.msg1208947#msg1208947

What the CDC director said is NOT "schools are safe to reopen" the remarks were around a question regarding vaccination priorities and teachers and the statement was that "there is increasing data to suggest that schools can safely reopen". Also, she said "taken under recommendation guidance from the states" regarding the prioritization of vaccines NOT "advice from teachers on what the policies would be". And, the latest CDC guidance did NOT contradict the statements made about schools and teacher vaccinations. Just the opposite, the guidance was in agreement with Walensky’s statement that schools could reopen before teachers had been vaccinated. If you think that I'm not paying attention that's fine, but let's get the facts straight.

Question: Great.  I wondered if we could get an update on vaccine prioritization.  I know under the previous administration this was largely left up to states to decide when they wanted to move to the next levels of priority.  But we’re seeing a lot of states open this up for teachers, and it’s kind of created a patchwork.  And I just wondered if the federal government would be working more closely with states to kind of get more vaccinations to teachers in particular so that schools can reopen in the fall.

DR. WALENSKY: Yeah, thank you for that question.  You know, the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices has created these guides — this guidance for how we should be thinking about prioritizing among all essential workers and all of the population at large.

You know, those have been taken under recommendation — guidance from the states, and then the states are creating their own individual plans.  And, you know, those plans have to, sort of, be in sync with how they are able to titrate, really, their supply versus the number of people who are wanting it.  We don’t want to be too prescriptive so that they have these queues of people, and yet we don’t want to be too open so that they also have queues of people.  We don’t want to have too much supply on the shelf.

So we’ve left that to the states to manage, in terms of recognizing the prioritization of ACIP, but also manage at their own local level.

That said, I want to be very clear about schools, which is: Yes, ACIP has put teachers in the 1b category, the category of essential workers.  But I also want to be clear that there is increasing data to suggest that schools can safely reopen and that that safe reopening does not suggest that teachers need to be vaccinated in order to reopen safely.

So while we are implementing the criteria of the Advisory Committee and of the state and local guidances to get vaccination across these eligible communities, I would also say that safe reopening of schools is not — that vaccination of teachers is not a prerequisite for safe reopening of schools.

MR. ZIENTS:  Yeah, let me just add here.  You know, President Biden has been very clear that he wants schools to reopen and actually to stay open.  And that means that every school has the equipment and the resources to open safely — not just private schools or schools in wealthy areas, but all schools.  And that’s why we need the American Rescue Plan passed now.  It includes money to get schools better access to testing, enables smaller class sizes, acquire the necessary ventilation, ensure everyone has PPE, and that schools are properly sanitized.  It also includes much-needed funds to support the learning and social, emotional needs of our kids in what has been an extremely, extremely difficult year. So again, Congress has to do its part in order to make sure that we can safely reopen schools and keep them open.

Is there muddled messaging coming from the administration? Yes there is. That does not equate to "blatant political manipulation of the CDC". If anything, it shows that the CDC director isn't being muzzled; that the administration is new; and that getting information out unfiltered is a higher priority right now than everyone singing from the same hymnal.

Like I said, messaging has benn muddled. For an editorial critique of that muddled messaging you can read commentary here from yesterday...

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2021-02-18/editorial-covid-19-school-reopening

Oh, stop it.  She got a call from Biden and switched her opinion.

TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #739 on: April 04, 2021, 12:59:00 pm »

Now if you want to get bogged down in the minutia of things to try and obscure the clearly obvious 30K foot view, that being we are not following the science but politics instead, be my guest.

Nah. There's no point when you filter out "the minutia" to the point that statements become distorted.

What you call "minutia" is context and full quotes. You filter that out in order to hear what you want to hear.

So for instance, when a question is asked about "vaccinations to teachers in particular so that schools can reopen in the fall."

And the answer to that question is : "That said, I want to be very clear about schools, which is: "Yes, ACIP [Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices] has put teachers in the 1b category, the category of essential workers.  But I also want to be clear that there is increasing data to suggest that schools can safely reopen and that that safe reopening does not suggest that teachers need to be vaccinated in order to reopen safely."

And after going thru your filter it comes out... "the head of the CDC issued a statement in which she said schools are safe to reopen"

The fall school term is still some months away. The CDC hasn't changed their guidance about teachers needing to be vaccinated to re-open. But if you filter and distort statements enough, I'm sure that you'll feel secure in your point of view.
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