Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[TechTalk]

gutless ... cowards they are

Gutless cowards turn their back on their country when its Capitol is attacked and make excuses, because they're too afraid of facing what they helped to create.

[James Clark]

You proved my point.  You're the conspiracist. There was a two-year, $30 million investigation when Mueller concluded that not only did Trump not collude with the Russians, but he could find no other American in the whole country who colluded with them. 

How does a finding that the head of the Trump campaign furnished campaign data to Russian intelligence "prove your point?"   As for "no other American..." Paul Manafort got time added to his sentence for lying about those same contacts.  The Trump campaign colluded with Russia - period.  It's documented, Manafort admitted to it, and was sentenced to jail for it.  What's your issue with just admitting it?

[Alan Klein]

How does a finding that the head of the Trump campaign furnished campaign data to Russian intelligence "prove your point?"   As for "no other American..." Paul Manafort got time added to his sentence for lying about those same contacts.  The Trump campaign colluded with Russia - period.  It's documented, Manafort admitted to it, and was sentenced to jail for it.  What's your issue with just admitting it?

You see?  You still think Trump colluded with the Russians even though Mueller found no evidence after spending $30 million of taxpayers' money and investigating over two years.  Yet, I have not heard one word from you about Hillary and her involvement with British and Russian spies who prepared the fake dossier nor how the FBI lied to a FISA court to get Trump. 

You also seemed more concerned with what Trump's kids did privately in business than what Hunter Biden did using his father's office of the VP to advance his financial gains and possibly his father's  At least you could be consistent.  It would be nice to hear that an investigation of the Bidens would be appropriate.  Let's have a hearing.  Let the Bidens and associates testify.  I'm sure they'd be willing to defend them without a subpoena.  Of course, you may get it whether you like it or not if the Republicans take over the House in January. 

[TechTalk]

gutless ... cowards they are

Gutless cowards ignore obvious and irrefutable facts when they conflict with their own false assertions, because they're afraid to admit they've been wrong.

[TechTalk]

Not. A. Hoax.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/senate-panel-finds-russia-interfered-in-the-2016-us-election

From link in above quote...

The Trump campaign’s interactions with Russian intelligence services during the 2016 presidential election posed a “grave” counterintelligence threat, a Senate panel concluded Tuesday as it detailed how associates of Donald Trump had regular contact with Russians and expected to benefit from the Kremlin’s help.

The nearly 1,000-page report, the fifth and final one from the Republican-led Senate intelligence committee on the Russia investigation, details how Russia launched an aggressive effort to interfere in the election on Trump’s behalf. It says the Trump campaign chairman had regular contact with a Russian intelligence officer and says other Trump associates were eager to exploit the Kremlin’s aid, particularly by maximizing the impact of the disclosure of Democratic emails hacked by Russian intelligence officers...

The findings, including unflinching characterizations of furtive interactions between Trump associates and Russian operatives, echo to a large degree those of special counsel Robert Mueller’s Russia investigation and appear to repudiate the Republican president’s claims that the FBI had no basis to investigate whether his campaign was conspiring with Russia....

Among the more striking sections of the report is the committee’s description of the professional relationship between former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort and Konstantin Kilimnik, whom the committee describes as a Russian intelligence officer.

“Taken as a whole, Manafort’s high-level access and willingness to share information with individuals closely affiliated with the Russian intelligence services, particularly Kilimnik, represented a grave counterintelligence threat,” the report says.

[James Clark]

You see?  You still think Trump colluded with the Russians even though Mueller found no evidence after spending $30 million of taxpayers' money and investigating over two years.

TRUMP'S. CAMPAIGN. MANAGER. GAVE. DATA. TO. RUSSIAN. INTELLIGENCE.  HE WENT TO JAIL FOR IT.

[Manoli]

Josh isn't moderating this thread.  Why would he moderate any other?

Duh! Try reading my post.
Not just Josh, an OP can also lock the thread, even temporarily (as I’ve had to do with you in other threads on more than one occasion).

If he deleted all posts that have personal attacks, it would move my posting rate from 40% to 80%.   

Playing the victim, again.

[Alan Klein]

TRUMP'S. CAMPAIGN. MANAGER. GAVE. DATA. TO. RUSSIAN. INTELLIGENCE.  HE WENT TO JAIL FOR IT.

That's false.  He went to jail for unrelated things. 

[TechTalk]

Gutless cowards who are traitors don't care whether their country and its democracy are attacked by Russia or domestic terrorists. They turn a blind eye and make excuses for the guilty.

[James Clark]

That's false.  He went to jail for unrelated things.

The first time.  Then he pled guilty to conspiracy against the United States, then got sent to the pokey for violating his plea agreement by lying about, among other things, his contacts with Russian intelligence.

Again, he gave campaign data to Russian intelligence.

Not a hoax.

[Peter McLennan]

Soon, we'll hear again about his thwarted plan to save money for the City of New York.

[TechTalk]

Look at his stats and you’ll get the picture. He’ll swing out of bed in the morning and unleash his first salvo. Come 7:00PM he’s attached unrelentingly to the keyboard until the early hours of the morning, emulating his hero’s playbook, indiscriminately replying to all and anything, trolling in search of a ‘bite’.

Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow...

...It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

— William Shakespeare, Macbeth (Act 5, Scene 5)

[Alan Klein]

The first time.  Then he pled guilty to conspiracy against the United States, then got sent to the pokey for violating his plea agreement by lying about, among other things, his contacts with Russian intelligence.

Again, he gave campaign data to Russian intelligence.

Not a hoax.

First I'm curious.  What is Hillary Clinton guilty of by paying British and Russian spies to create a phony dossier to use against her political opponent in a presidential election?  Are you as concerned about Democratic shenanigans and law-breaking.  After all, she colluded with Russian spies to write the dossier. Shouldn;t we all be equally concerned about what she was up to?

OK regarding your post, I did some research to get up to date.  Apparently, Manafort violated his agreement to help the US government by lying to them about connections with Russians.  He apparently gave polling information to this Russian who turned out to be a Russian spy. He also discussed a Ukrainian peace plan with him.  Manafort was up to his eyes inn shanagans with Ukrainian policitians and other crooks.  Manafort knew this Russian guy from his shady deals in the Ukraine and elsewhere.   No one ever determined what the Russian did with the info.  He was supposed to give it to Ukrainians that Manafort knew. But since it was polls the Trump campaign did, and a Ukrainian peace plan, I don't see what this has to do with Russian collusion.  I don;t know what to make of the peace deal.  Maybe Manafort sold the polls to the Russians,  Manafort needed money and was desperate.  Remember he volunteered to work for the Trump campaign for nothing.  So he had to work back channels to make money surreptitiously.  Russians are always looking to get stuff on American politicians to blackmail.   Certainly, they would like something on Trump as well as Clinton since there was no way to determine who was going to win.  We may never know everything this sleazebag did or why.   Here is what Wiki says about it.

"In January 2019, Manafort's lawyers submitted a filing to the court in response to the allegation that Manafort had lied to investigators. Through an error in redacting, the document accidentally revealed that while he was campaign chairman, Manafort met with Konstantin Kilimnik, who is believed to be a Russian intelligence officer. The filing says Manafort gave him polling data related to the 2016 campaign and discussed a Ukrainian peace plan with him. Most of the polling data was reportedly public, although some was private Trump campaign polling data. Manafort asked Kilimnik to pass the data to Ukrainians Serhiy Lyovochkin and Rinat Akhmetov. The Republican-controlled Senate Intelligence Committee concluded in August 2020 that Manafort's contacts with Kilimnik and other affiliates of Russian intelligence "represented a grave counterintelligence threat" because his "presence on the Campaign and proximity to Trump created opportunities for Russian intelligence services to exert influence over, and acquire confidential information on, the Trump campaign."[67][68][35]"

In any case, what sleazy Manafort was doing goes beyond what Trump did.  He hired Manafort to be the campaign manager. There were never any reports that Trump dealt with Russians other than his involvement commercially as a businessman.   And once Trump found out just how shady this guy Manafort was, he fired him after only two months as campaign manager because of his Russian connections. (From the Wiki article linked below: "It was reported that members of Trump's family, particularly Kushner, who had originally been a strong backer of Manafort, had become uneasy about his Russian connections and suspected that he had not been forthright about them.[61] ")   So that belies the charge of Trump having Russian campaign connections through Manafort.  Trump dumped him because of them.

To see his resume in Wiki reads like a spy and crime novel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Manafort

[TechTalk]

biased-minded political stooges

Political stooges and traitors are trying anything and everything to distract attention away from the January 6th attack on the United States Capitol to avenge the BIG LIE created and endlessly promoted by Donald Trump for his personal vanity and glory.

[Alan Klein]

Why would China think that we would help Taiwan if the Communists attacked their island if we're not willing to send our Speaker to meet with the Taiwanese government?  Biden is again showing his fecklessness like in Afghanistan.  If I was a Taiwanese, I'd be very worried about my freedom remaining much longer.  The administration saying she should not go just sends a signal to China to attack.  The incompetence of this administration is astounding.  Pelosi should go. And Biden should support her going. 

Growing number in GOP back Pelosi on possible Taiwan trip
"Biden last week raised the U.S. government concerns about Pelosi’s possible visit, telling reporters after returning from Massachusetts that the military thinks her trip is “not a good idea right now.”

“Speaker Pelosi should go to Taiwan and President Biden should make it abundantly clear to Chairman Xi that there’s not a damn thing the Chinese Communist Party can do about it,” Sen. Ben Sasse, R-Neb., said Monday. “No more feebleness and self-deterrence. This is very simple: Taiwan is an ally and the speaker of the House of Representatives should meet with the Taiwanese men and women who stare down the threat of Communist China.”
https://apnews.com/article/biden-china-beijing-nancy-pelosi-taiwan-5a1f96199bdb7467b22837bd271b835d

[TechTalk]

If I was a Taiwanese, I'd be very worried about my freedom remaining much longer.

What a shame that you show no concern for your own country's freedom and democracy. You've turned your back on your country in favor of a political personality cult.

[Peter McLennan]

What a shame that you show no concern for your own country's freedom and democracy. You've turned your back on your country in favor of a political personality cult.

That's exactly what the trumpie crowd did, so why not?  It's the "Right" thing to do.

[PeterAit]

You see?  You still think Trump colluded with the Russians even though Mueller found no evidence after spending $30 million of taxpayers' money and investigating over two years.   

Where on earth do you get your information? Tucker? Rush's ghost? Meller found TONS of evidence of collusion between Trump and the Russians, Of course "Trump" does not mean that he personally sat down with Putin and kissed pinkies, but that people in his campaign did--just like it was Clinton's people who hired people to do the Steele dossier. Mueller quite explicitly stated that his not recommending bringing charges MUST NOT be taken as an exoneration of Trump.

As for Clinton, it's not the same thing. Conducting opposition research in a campaign is perfectly normal and expected. It turned out badly because of who was eventually hired for the job (Steele). But with Trump it is totally different. Colluding with a foreign power is wrong from the get-go. But we all know that Trump doesn;t care about right and wrong--or even know what they are.

[Alan Klein]

Where on earth do you get your information? Tucker? Rush's ghost? Meller found TONS of evidence of collusion between Trump and the Russians, Of course "Trump" does not mean that he personally sat down with Putin and kissed pinkies, but that people in his campaign did--just like it was Clinton's people who hired people to do the Steele dossier. Mueller quite explicitly stated that his not recommending bringing charges MUST NOT be taken as an exoneration of Trump.

As for Clinton, it's not the same thing. Conducting opposition research in a campaign is perfectly normal and expected. It turned out badly because of who was eventually hired for the job (Steele). But with Trump it is totally different. Colluding with a foreign power is wrong from the get-go. But we all know that Trump doesn;t care about right and wrong--or even know what they are.

It's exactly the same thing. If Trump had used Russian sources to help him in his campaign, that's no different than Hilary using Russian spy contacts to advance her campaign. Both would be using a foreign power to assist them.  Calling what Hillary did "opposition research" and what Trump supposedly did "treason" is just putting lipstick on a pig for Hillary.  You're being partisan, that's all.

Also, there were not TONS of evidence.  Mueller found nothing and said it.  What Manfort did was done on his own.  He was running back-channel spying for the Ukrainians who bribed him $10 million and possibly the Russians.  Manafort was there to help himself, not Trump.  As I explained in my earlier post, he fired Manafort as his campaign manager as soon as he realized that Manafort was too cozy with the Russians.  Trump dumped him.   How is that colluding?

[PeterAit]

Why would China think that we would help Taiwan if the Communists attacked their island if we're not willing to send our Speaker to meet with the Taiwanese government?  Biden is again showing his fecklessness like in Afghanistan.  If I was a Taiwanese, I'd be very worried about my freedom remaining much longer.  The administration saying she should not go just sends a signal to China to attack.  The incompetence of this administration is astounding.  Pelosi should go. And Biden should support her going. 

Maybe it's because of worries that if China attacks Taiwan and we defend, we would lose. Perhaps Biden wisely thinks the best course is to maintain the status quo by not provoking China to attack. This is called "diplomacy."

China has been actively building up their military. We cannot assume we would be dominant, particularly 12,000 miles from home and on China's shores. In particular, their anti-ship missles will make it difficult or impossible for us to make proper use of our carriers. So perhaps it's better to walk the fine line between capitulation and war.