Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[digitaldog]

Of course, its hard to tell driving performance, suspension, sound system quality, fit and finish, etc.

From photos, yes but that didn't stop you from making judgments about them.
Or you're going to tell us you've seen and actually driven them? Unlikely.

These guys are not expert car reviewers.

Unlike you sir, they actually formed an opinion based on actual experience.
Your expertise is in what field? I've asked before but for some reason, you never want to tell us.

[LesPalenik]

The 2023 Chevy Bolt has a current starting MSRP of $26,595 which is a reduction of $5,900 from previous models. The Hyundai IONIQ 5 SE Standard Range starts at $39,950 and qualifies for a U.S. $7,500 Federal Tax Credit. The Kia EV 6 has a starting MSRP of $40,900 and also qualifies for the $7,500 Federal Tax Credit.

So, there are alternatives to "people riding bicycles or waiting for the cheap China imports".

Thank God for the Ioniq 5 SE base model and the discounted Bolt price, that really helps to keep down the average EV price. Let's hope that GM will sell more Bolts than Celestiques.

[Robert Roaldi]

The Bolt isn't much better than an electric bike with an umbrella. 

I don't know where that comes from. I know friends who have owned one for years, they love it.

[digitaldog]

The Bolt isn't much better than an electric bike with an umbrella. 

I don't know where that comes from.

It is of course, more troll bait.

[TechTalk]

Thank God for the Ioniq 5 SE base model and the discounted Bolt price, that really helps to keep down the average EV price.

Lower cost EVs do help to keep down the average EV price, in addition to providing an alternative to "people riding bicycles or waiting for the cheap China imports".

Let's hope that GM will sell more Bolts than Celestiques.

I consulted the Magic 8 Ball on this question for you. The answer was, "It is Decidedly So".

[LesPalenik]

The Bolt isn't much better than an electric bike with an umbrella. 

I don't know where that comes from. I know friends who have owned one for years, they love it.

Not quite built from an umbrella, but in 1950's, Velorex company in Czechoslovakia, manufactured a low-cost vehicle, called fondly a "flying trenchcoat". The original designers were Stransky brothers, owners of a bicycle shop. Starting in 1936, they designed a small, cheap three-wheeled car, inspired by three-wheelers from Morgan Motor Company. In 1943, they built their first prototype using steel tubing wrapped by dural sheet metal and some bicycle and motorcycle parts. The maximum speed of this flying contraption was 30km/h.

In 1951, in their first manufacturing year they produced 54 vehicles. That compares quite favorably with the 26 EVs produced by GM in Q4 2021.

The price of Velorex was at that time about a quarter of the price of an average car.
The new Aptera three-wheeler EV showed in the second image can be reserved for $25,900 and $44,900. Aptera has a combined solar/battery range of 1,000 miles.

https://www.erik.gjermundsen.net/history-velorex/

[TechTalk]

I like the Velorex. It has that combination of funky and weird that give it charm. Makes me want to go back to the Czech Republic to visit Prague again.

Still, I think that a Chevy Bolt would be more practical. One of my best friends has one that's a few years old and loves it. I'm considering one down the road a bit.

Saw the Aptera on Jay Leno's Garage.

https://www.youtube.com/Aptera Alpha Development Vehicle | Jay Leno's Garage

[Robert Roaldi]

The Bolt isn't much better than an electric bike with an umbrella. 

Besides which, bicycles, e-bikes, scooters, etc., are perfectly useful forms of personal transportation.

[Alan Klein]

I don't know where that comes from. I know friends who have owned one for years, they love it.

The Bolt is sort of like the point and shoot of the EV world.  

[Alan Klein]

Not quite built from an umbrella, but in 1950's, Velorex company in Czechoslovakia, manufactured a low-cost vehicle, called fondly a "flying trenchcoat". The original designers were Stransky brothers, owners of a bicycle shop. Starting in 1936, they designed a small, cheap three-wheeled car, inspired by three-wheelers from Morgan Motor Company. In 1943, they built their first prototype using steel tubing wrapped by dural sheet metal and some bicycle and motorcycle parts. The maximum speed of this flying contraption was 30km/h.

In 1951, in their first manufacturing year they produced 54 vehicles. That compares quite favorably with the 26 EVs produced by GM in Q4 2021.

The price of Velorex was at that time about a quarter of the price of an average car.
The new Aptera three-wheeler EV showed in the second image can be reserved for $25,900 and $44,900. Aptera has a combined solar/battery range of 1,000 miles.

https://www.erik.gjermundsen.net/history-velorex/

Most of the original automobile manufacturers were in the horse and carriage (buggy) business.  They just added an ICE to their carriages and became car manufacturers.  Does "car" come from CARriage?   The Wright Brothers made bicycles before planes.  Elon Musk started off in software (ie PayPal) before building rockets and cars which is actually somewhat more afield than last century's auto makers.  At least they were in the transportation business to start.

[digitaldog]

The Bolt is sort of like the point and shoot of the EV world.

This from a fellow who takes point and shoot snapshots; prefect!

[digitaldog]

Most of the original automobile manufacturers were in the horse and carriage (buggy) business.
 Does "car" come from CARriage? 

Warning: Troll bait.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car

The English word car is believed to originate from Latin carrus/carrum "wheeled vehicle" or (via Old North French) Middle English carre "two-wheeled cart," both of which in turn derive from Gaulish karros "chariot." It originally referred to any wheeled horse-drawn vehicle, such as a cart, carriage, or wagon.

[LesPalenik]

The Bolt is sort of like the point and shoot of the EV world.

There were 19 recorded cases of Bolt batteries self combusting and catching fire. As a result of this, GM recommended keeping the cars 50 feet away from the house and recalled 141,000 Bolts.
None of the point and shoot camera manufacturers advised such precautions.

There are about 90 camera manufacturers in the whole world.  Number of car brands worldwide is estimated between 1,500 and 2,000.

[Alan Klein]

There were 19 recorded cases of Bolt batteries self combusting and catching fire. As a result of this, GM recommended keeping the cars 50 feet away from the house and recalled 141,000 Bolts.
None of the point and shoot camera manufacturers advised such precautions.

There are about 90 camera manufacturers in the whole world.  Number of car brands worldwide is estimated between 1,500 and 2,000.

So you needed a 50 foot extension cord to charge the Bolts at night? And leave them parked next to your neighbor's house?   

[LesPalenik]

So you needed a 50 foot extension cord to charge the Bolts at night? And leave them parked next to your neighbor's house?   

The 50 ft distance from your home is recommended not only for charging, but also for parking. They don't mention how close you can park to your neighbour's house.

[PeterAit]

I don't think it's fair that poorer taxpayers should subsidize richer ones when they purchase a vehicle.  Also, since manufacturers know the buyer is getting a discount, they raise their prices higher than supply and demand would dictate and just make extra profits for themselves.  But for the rebate, they would have to lower their prices.

How do you feel about poorer taxpayers subsidizing ICE vehicles thru the depletion allowance?

Your second point is probably valid but so what? It's a free market and no one has to have an EV. Not like food and shelter.  Supply and demand, right? At present, if you order a Volkwagen ID4 (what we have) you can expect a one year wait.

[Alan Klein]

How do you feel about poorer taxpayers subsidizing ICE vehicles thru the depletion allowance?

Your second point is probably valid but so what? It's a free market and no one has to have an EV. Not like food and shelter.  Supply and demand, right? At present, if you order a Volkwagen ID4 (what we have) you can expect a one year wait.

Depletion (depreciation) allowances are business expenses.  I'm referring to a poor private taxpayers subsidizing rich private car buyers.  No depreciation allowances can be applied to purchases of autos or any product I'm aware of used for personal use.

Regarding my second point, when the government provides rebates, normal supply and demand are thrown out the window.  The government is picking winners and losers.  That's not a free market.  The government is paying people to buy electric vehicles rather than other types.   That also causes longer waiting lines to purchase an EV.  It's like Black Friday sales day at the crowded mall with the government picking up the sales discounts.

[digitaldog]

How do you feel about poorer taxpayers subsidizing ICE vehicles thru the depletion allowance?

Sorry you asked him?  :

[Robert Roaldi]

There were 19 recorded cases of Bolt batteries self combusting and catching fire. As a result of this, GM recommended keeping the cars 50 feet away from the house and recalled 141,000 Bolts.
None of the point and shoot camera manufacturers advised such precautions.

There are about 90 camera manufacturers in the whole world.  Number of car brands worldwide is estimated between 1,500 and 2,000.

Is 19 a lot?  Did they track down the defect in the Li-Ion batteries that gave rise to that? Who else uses those batteries?

I remember reading stories about Tesla fires too.

There is no automobile manufacturer that has not had safety recalls.

I would not be happy to be told to store my car outside. One of my hates is wasting my time brushing snow and ice off my car in the morning, which is why I park indoors in winter. I'm the only person in my neighbourhood that has enough room in the garage for my car.

[LesPalenik]

I don't think that most economists would agree with California governor Gavin Newsom who instead of addressing the high rate of homelessness and criminality in his state wants to fight inflation with another stimulus round.

a couple that earns a combined $125,000 and has two children would qualify for $350 per adult plus $350 for their children, for a total of $1,050.
Higher-income residents will receive smaller payments.
Single taxpayers who make between $75,000 and $125,000 a year and couples who earn between $150,000 and $250,000 will receive $250, plus the same payment for their dependents, for a maximum of $750 per family.
Single people who earn between $125,000 and $250,000 and couples who earn between $250,000 and $500,000 annually would receive $200 each, plus the same amount for their dependents. That amounts to a maximum payment of $600 per family.

https://kiisfm.iheart.com/content/2022-06-27-california-residents-to-receive-up-to-1050-in-inflation-relief-checks/