Pages: 1 ... 604 605 [606] 607 608 ... 909   Go Down

Author Topic: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa  (Read 1293764 times)

TechTalk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3628
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12100 on: October 30, 2021, 08:07:19 pm »

The first one when Biden Administration had snubbed Tesla at the electric vehicle summit at the White House in August — inviting Ford, General Motors, Stellantis and UAW, but not Tesla.

The "Biden Administration had snubbed Tesla", and BMW, and Honda, and Hyundai, and Kia, and Mercedes, and Nissan, and Subaru, and Toyota, and Volkswagen, and Volvo. Of course if you don't consider all of the other manufacturers not invited... it was a snub directly aimed at Tesla. Have you considered the possibility that the primary purpose of the summit wasn't to exclude Tesla and all of the other nonunion auto manufacturers? Have you considered that the summit may have been designed to insure that the UAW was included and a cooperative partner in a major transition underway in car manufacturing?

Some people might believe that the event was designed to get the UAW, and the employees they represent, aligned with meeting the President's stated goal of 50% emission free vehicle sales by 2030. Attaining this goal is going to cause changes in the way cars are designed and manufactured and the workers needed to produce them. The UAW is well aware of this.

Quote
https://uaw.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/190416-EV-White-Paper-REVISED-January-2020-Final.pdf

"Fundamental Shift: EVs are not simply a shift in consumer preference. They are a complete shift in the way we power vehicles. This could have disruptive implications for where and under what conditions vehicles are made.

Lower Complexity, Less Labor: EV powertrains have much less mechanical complexity than ICE [internal combustion engine] powertrains. This simplicity could reduce the amount of labor, and thus jobs, associated with vehicle production.

Displaced Workers: EVs could erode employment in engines, transmissions, exhaust systems, and fuel systems, but create employment in batteries, electric motors, electronics, thermal systems, braking systems, and semiconductors. Employers and policymakers must commit to re-tool plants, re-train workers, and produce new components in the U.S."

Tesla already seems pretty committed to electric vehicles. Every other car maker is also moving in that direction. The workers of the UAW are going to want a voice in the transition.

The actual practice of governing requires combining skills in politics and diplomacy to move forward. Holding a summit focused on the UAW in order to insure that they are not only involved participants, but committed partners in making the neccessary transitions in production and labor that will be required to move forward, might seem a reasonable thing to do. Unless of course, you have a very narrow Tesla-centric view of the event, are anti-union, or just looking for ways to bash Biden and the UAW.
Logged
Respice, adspice, prospice - Look to the past, the present, the future

TechTalk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3628
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12101 on: October 30, 2021, 09:05:22 pm »

World leaders endorse global corporate minimum tax, a major win for Biden

https://www.ny1.com/news/2021/10/30/World leaders endorse global corporate minimum tax, a major win for Biden

Leaders have expressed “broad support” for a landmark deal to establish a 15% global minimum corporate tax, delivering President Joe Biden a major win on the first day of his first Group of 20 Summit as commander-in-chief.

The tax aims at deterring multinational countries from using clever accounting to elude taxes by using low-rate havens, ending the so-called "race to the bottom," which is the practice of reducing tax rates in an attempt to undercut competition and lure businesses from one country to another.

Leaders spoke on the proposal during the opening session Saturday of the summit, said officials from host country Italy.

"We reached a historic agreement for a fairer and more effective international tax system," Italian Prime Minister Mario Draghi, the head of this year's G20 meeting said, adding: "These results are a powerful reminder of what we can achieve together."

During Saturday's session, every leader endorsed the global minimum tax, which the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) estimates would raise $150 billion globally each year. A Biden administration official estimates it would lead to an extra $60 billion in revenue annually in the U.S. alone.

"The President emphasized the importance of this historic deal during his intervention," a White House official said of President Biden's remarks. "The President also mentioned that while we don't see eye to eye on every issue, we can tackle shared interests."
Logged
Respice, adspice, prospice - Look to the past, the present, the future

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12102 on: October 31, 2021, 12:49:10 am »

The "Biden Administration had snubbed Tesla", and BMW, and Honda, and Hyundai, and Kia, and Mercedes, and Nissan, and Subaru, and Toyota, and Volkswagen, and Volvo. Of course if you don't consider all of the other manufacturers not invited... it was a snub directly aimed at Tesla. Have you considered the possibility that the primary purpose of the summit wasn't to exclude Tesla and all of the other nonunion auto manufacturers? Have you considered that the summit may have been designed to insure that the UAW was included and a cooperative partner in a major transition underway in car manufacturing?

Some people might believe that the event was designed to get the UAW, and the employees they represent, aligned with meeting the President's stated goal of 50% emission free vehicle sales by 2030. Attaining this goal is going to cause changes in the way cars are designed and manufactured and the workers needed to produce them. The UAW is well aware of this.

Tesla already seems pretty committed to electric vehicles. Every other car maker is also moving in that direction. The workers of the UAW are going to want a voice in the transition.

The actual practice of governing requires combining skills in politics and diplomacy to move forward. Holding a summit focused on the UAW in order to insure that they are not only involved participants, but committed partners in making the neccessary transitions in production and labor that will be required to move forward, might seem a reasonable thing to do. Unless of course, you have a very narrow Tesla-centric view of the event, are anti-union, or just looking for ways to bash Biden and the UAW.
Biden snubbed Tesla because they aren't union.  The optics wouldn't look good for Democrats to invite non-union Tesla to the party. 

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12103 on: October 31, 2021, 12:52:10 am »

World leaders endorse global corporate minimum tax, a major win for Biden

https://www.ny1.com/news/2021/10/30/World leaders endorse global corporate minimum tax, a major win for Biden

Leaders have expressed “broad support” for a landmark deal to establish a 15% global minimum corporate tax, delivering President Joe Biden a major win on the first day of his first Group of 20 Summit as commander-in-chief.

The tax aims at deterring multinational countries from using clever accounting to elude taxes by using low-rate havens, ending the so-called "race to the bottom," which is the practice of reducing tax rates in an attempt to undercut competition and lure businesses from one country to another.

Leaders spoke on the proposal during the opening session Saturday of the summit, said officials from host country Italy.

"We reached a historic agreement for a fairer and more effective international tax system," Italian Prime Minister Mario Draghi, the head of this year's G20 meeting said, adding: "These results are a powerful reminder of what we can achieve together."

During Saturday's session, every leader endorsed the global minimum tax, which the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) estimates would raise $150 billion globally each year. A Biden administration official estimates it would lead to an extra $60 billion in revenue annually in the U.S. alone.

"The President emphasized the importance of this historic deal during his intervention," a White House official said of President Biden's remarks. "The President also mentioned that while we don't see eye to eye on every issue, we can tackle shared interests."
Somehow I figure America and American companies are going to get hurt more than foreign countries and companies.  Just like the Paris Accord and climate.  The Senate will have to approve this first before it becomes a treaty, requiring a 2/3 majority of Senators.  Discussion there will bring out all the warts in the plan. 

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5513
    • Robert's Photos
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12104 on: October 31, 2021, 01:00:05 pm »

Somehow I figure America and American companies are going to get hurt more than foreign countries and companies.  Just like the Paris Accord and climate.  The Senate will have to approve this first before it becomes a treaty, requiring a 2/3 majority of Senators.  Discussion there will bring out all the warts in the plan.

You go through some weird swings. On the one hand, the US is in peril with economies all over the world trying to crush it and whose corporations are fragile and at everyone's mercy because foreigners are oh so crooked, while on the other hand, the US is the world's most powerful economy and without it, civilization might end. I get it, this is a web forum, hyperbole is the norm, but come on, relax.
Logged
--
Robert

kers

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4600
    • Pieter Kers
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12105 on: October 31, 2021, 02:26:09 pm »

I understand 15% is low- it is time not only small companies pay Tax
Logged

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12106 on: October 31, 2021, 03:03:52 pm »

You go through some weird swings. On the one hand, the US is in peril with economies all over the world trying to crush it and whose corporations are fragile and at everyone's mercy because foreigners are oh so crooked, while on the other hand, the US is the world's most powerful economy and without it, civilization might end. I get it, this is a web forum, hyperbole is the norm, but come on, relax.
I just don't understand how this helps America and American companies. Maybe you can explain.

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12107 on: October 31, 2021, 03:05:53 pm »

I understand 15% is low- it is time not only small companies pay Tax
How does this agreement help American companies or America when the tax money goes to another country? 

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5513
    • Robert's Photos
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12108 on: October 31, 2021, 04:33:19 pm »

How does this agreement help American companies or America when the tax money goes to another country?

I don't know, how do international tax havens help America?
Logged
--
Robert

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12109 on: October 31, 2021, 05:11:12 pm »

I don't know, how do international tax havens help America?
I don't trust Biden.  He's always giving away US dollars.   If the rest of the world is for it, and it mainly effects large US multinationals, then American companies will get hurt thre most.

TechTalk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3628
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12110 on: October 31, 2021, 05:22:58 pm »

• Explain it to me. Requesting attention and time from others by claiming the lack of personal time to look at a reference, feigned or real confusion (it's often hard to tell for certain), or by other means. Sometimes used as a setup for another circular argument.

https://wtop.com/national/explainer-deterring-tax-avoidance-by-global-companies

THE PROBLEM: TAX HAVENS AND THE ‘RACE TO THE BOTTOM’

Most countries only tax domestic business income of their multinational companies, on the assumption that the profits of their foreign subsidiaries will be taxed where they are earned.

But in today’s economy, profits can easily slide across borders. Earnings often come from intangibles, such as brands, copyrights and patents. Those are easy to move to where taxes are lowest — and some jurisdictions have been only too willing to offer reduced or zero taxation to attract foreign investment and revenue, even if companies do no real business there.

As a result, corporate tax rates have fallen in recent years, a phenomenon dubbed a “race to the bottom” by U.S. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen.

From 1985 to 2018, the worldwide average corporate statutory tax rate fell from 49% to 24%. From 2000-2018, U.S. companies booked half of all foreign profits in just seven low-tax jurisdictions: Bermuda, the Cayman Islands, Ireland, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Singapore and Switzerland. The OECD estimates tax avoidance costs anywhere from $100 billion to $240 billion, or from 4% to 10% of global corporate income tax revenues.

That’s money governments could use as they see deficits rise from spending on pandemic relief.

THE SOLUTION: THE GLOBAL MINIMUM TAX

The talks seek to put a floor under corporate tax rates by having countries legislate a minimum that they would levy on untaxed foreign income. In other words, if Company X headquartered in Country Y paid no or little tax on profits in Country Z, Country Y would tax those profits at home up to the minimum rate.

That would remove the reason for using a tax haven, or for setting one up. Biden has proposed a 15% floor for the global talks, though it could be higher.

https://money.usnews.com/investing/news/2021-10-08/explainer-what-is-the-global-minimum-tax-deal-and-what-will-it-mean

A global deal to ensure big companies pay a minimum tax rate of 15% and make it harder for them to avoid taxation has been agreed by 136 countries, the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development said on Friday.

HOW WOULD A DEAL WORK?

The global minimum tax rate would apply to overseas profits of multinational firms with 750 million euros ($868 million) in sales globally.

Governments could still set whatever local corporate tax rate they want, but if companies pay lower rates in a particular country, their home governments could "top up" their taxes to the 15% minimum, eliminating the advantage of shifting profits.

A second track of the overhaul would allow countries where revenues are earned to tax 25% of the largest multinationals' so-called excess profit - defined as profit in excess of 10% of revenue.
Logged
Respice, adspice, prospice - Look to the past, the present, the future

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5513
    • Robert's Photos
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12111 on: October 31, 2021, 09:45:13 pm »

... He's always giving away US dollars.   If the rest of the world is for it, and it mainly effects large US multinationals, then American companies will get hurt thre most.

Can you demonstrate how true that first sentence is. He's only been Prez a few months, how much money has he given away?

Why do you assume it mainly affects US multinationals? What is, exactly, a US multinational? If it's a multinational, then how is it a US company?
Logged
--
Robert

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12112 on: October 31, 2021, 10:51:46 pm »

Can you demonstrate how true that first sentence is. He's only been Prez a few months, how much money has he given away?

Why do you assume it mainly affects US multinationals? What is, exactly, a US multinational? If it's a multinational, then how is it a US company?
Biden wants to spend over trillion dollars for infrastructure three and a half trillion for social programs 1 point something trillion for additional stimulus additional trillion for unemployment 450000 for certain the illegals money spent for climate change when the Chinese aren't going to do anything for decades nor will the Indians Etc. 

I don't trust him with my money.

Why should we encourage foreign Nations to tax our multinationals. If they're not paying taxes to other countries, then encourage them to bring home the profits by taxing them here in America at 15%. That way we get the tax money instead of the foreigners. 

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5513
    • Robert's Photos
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12113 on: November 01, 2021, 09:27:52 am »

.
.
.
Why should we encourage foreign Nations to tax our multinationals. If they're not paying taxes to other countries, then encourage them to bring home the profits by taxing them here in America at 15%. That way we get the tax money instead of the foreigners.

What do you mean by "our" multinationals. If they are a multinational, then they aren't American anymore, are they?  And if they're doing business in other countries, are you saying that those other countries shouldn't be permitted to tax them?

Isn't the problem being addressed that because of tax havens no one is benefitting from not collecting those taxes? So those companies are taking advantage of the societies in which they operate but in turn contribute little to maintaining those societies. Do you not see a problem with that?

Or is it the case that you don't believe that the wealthy should pay taxes. Maybe they should be allowed to keep everything in the hopes that they "let us have" some jobs? Do you feudalism was a good system?
Logged
--
Robert

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12114 on: November 01, 2021, 11:06:15 am »

What do you mean by "our" multinationals. If they are a multinational, then they aren't American anymore, are they?  And if they're doing business in other countries, are you saying that those other countries shouldn't be permitted to tax them?

Isn't the problem being addressed that because of tax havens no one is benefitting from not collecting those taxes? So those companies are taking advantage of the societies in which they operate but in turn contribute little to maintaining those societies. Do you not see a problem with that?

Or is it the case that you don't believe that the wealthy should pay taxes. Maybe they should be allowed to keep everything in the hopes that they "let us have" some jobs? Do you feudalism was a good system?
American presidents represent American interests.,  They shouldn't be encouraging other countries to tax American companies.

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12115 on: November 01, 2021, 11:14:21 am »

What do you mean by "our" multinationals. If they are a multinational, then they aren't American anymore, are they?  And if they're doing business in other countries, are you saying that those other countries shouldn't be permitted to tax them?

Isn't the problem being addressed that because of tax havens no one is benefitting from not collecting those taxes? So those companies are taking advantage of the societies in which they operate but in turn contribute little to maintaining those societies. Do you not see a problem with that?

Or is it the case that you don't believe that the wealthy should pay taxes. Maybe they should be allowed to keep everything in the hopes that they "let us have" some jobs? Do you feudalism was a good system?
Can you imagine Canadian PM  Trudeau saying, "You know, I think it's unfair that America doesn't put an import duty on Canadian-produced food we export to them."

PeterAit

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4647
    • Peter Aitken Photographs
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12116 on: November 01, 2021, 12:28:07 pm »

How does this agreement help American companies or America when the tax money goes to another country?

The whole point is that companies will have no -- or less -- tax incentive to move operations/headquarters out of the US and to another country.
Logged

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12117 on: November 01, 2021, 01:53:40 pm »

The whole point is that companies will have no -- or less -- tax incentive to move operations/headquarters out of the US and to another country.
But US corporate tax rates are higher than 15%.  And Biden wants to raise them even higher.   So companies still have incentives to move overseas.  All Biden has done with this new deal is to guarantee that those companies will pay taxes to other countries.  How does that help America or American corporations?

TechTalk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3628
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12118 on: November 01, 2021, 01:57:10 pm »

feigned or real confusion (it's often hard to tell for certain)... used... for another circular argument.
Logged
Respice, adspice, prospice - Look to the past, the present, the future

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12119 on: November 01, 2021, 03:11:23 pm »

feigned or real confusion (it's often hard to tell for certain)... used... for another circular argument.

My question was: How does that (15% foreign tax) help America or American corporations?

There's no circular argument nor confusion.  Just a simple question.
Pages: 1 ... 604 605 [606] 607 608 ... 909   Go Up