Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[Peter McLennan]

One look at what China did in thirty years from a total command economy to a largely freer market economy, albeit with still huge government control, shows just how effective free markets work.

That goes to the top of my list of "funniest things I've read on LuLa".

"Delusional" is the first word to pop up after I quit laffing.  Alan, if you think markets in China are even remotely free, that word applies perfectly to you.

You need to read/learn more, pontificate less.

[Peter McLennan]

Socialist systems work.  The problem is the people are not as free or rich.

Try telling that to Canadians or Finns, or Norwegians, or Swedes, or Danes or Germans (I could go on) who are "socialist" (your term) AND free AND rich.

[Robert Roaldi]

Try telling the 95% of the American people who live pay check to pay check they are rich.

Obviously they deserve what's happened to them, it's all their own fault because of the bad decisions they made. 

[Robert Roaldi]

More G.O.P. internecine strife, https://www.politico.com/news/2021/05/28/ryan-trump-gop-491336.

[Robert Roaldi]

Most obvious story this month (so far), https://thehill.com/policy/international/556073-putin-backs-up-belaruss-lukashenko-amid-increasing-pressure-from-the. Given Putin's treatment of journalists in his own country, it's hardly surprising he'd be all in with Belarus's kidnapping of one.

[Robert Roaldi]

Nothing to see here, just move on, https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/555755-senate-gop-block-legislation-on-jan-6-commission.

Now why would anyone want to have an enquiry into the storming of the Capitol? Obviously it was only being set up as a way to catch out Trumpistan's coterie. Totally partisan, best to forget the whole thing, never happened.

[James Clark]

Obviously they deserve what's happened to them, it's all their own fault because of the bad decisions they made. 

Seriously.  I thank God every day that I had the common sense to be born into a family that paid for my college education, and wasn't redlined out of great school districts when I was a kid.  Good job, me.

[Robert Roaldi]

...
One look at what China did in thirty years from a total command economy to a largely freer market economy, albeit with still huge government control, shows just how effective free markets work.

Indeed. Free markets work best when large rich outfits like Amazon can bully local jurisdictions into subsidizing construction of their warehouses. This is a proven way to increase profits. Other companies are free to do the same but they don't, proving that only the strong survive.

[Alan Klein]

Try telling the 95% of the American people who live pay check to pay check they are rich.

American has been part socialitst a long time.  It's what has been casuing our problems for so long.  50% of our health care is governmental paid for.  We have SS, Medicare, Medicaid. The government is printing and redistributing trillions of dollars causing inflation and wiping out the middle class's savings, retirement,  and value of their salaries.  Higher taxes over decades has been hollowing out the middle class. Period.

[digitaldog]

American has been part socialitst a long time.  It's what has been casuing our problems for so long.  50% of our health care is governmental paid for.  We have SS, Medicare, Medicaid. The government is printing and redistributing trillions of dollars causing inflation and wiping out the middle class's savings, retirement,  and value of their salaries.  Higher taxes over decades has been hollowing out the middle class. Period.

So you Alan have accepted no governmental health care OR SS, OR Medicare, OR Medicaid?
Yes or no (period) is all we need to know the degree of hypocritical behavior from you.

Strike through necessary to divert attention from rubbish generalizations so often seen over these pages.

Lower taxes to millionaires a billionaires from Trumps tax cuts just a few years ago, something Biden is trying to revert with zero support from most republicans. A degree of hypocritical behavior from them as well.

[James Clark]

American has been part socialitst a long time.  It's what has been casuing our problems for so long.  50% of our health care is governmental paid for.  We have SS, Medicare, Medicaid. The government is printing and redistributing trillions of dollars causing inflation and wiping out the middle class's savings, retirement,  and value of their salaries.  Higher taxes over decades has been hollowing out the middle class. Period.

Tax rates have consistently gone down since the end of WWII.  Wealth disparity has consistently increased.  Get out of here with that nonsense.

[Alan Klein]

Indeed. Free markets work best when large rich outfits like Amazon can bully local jurisdictions into subsidizing construction of their warehouses. This is a proven way to increase profits. Other companies are free to do the same but they don't, proving that only the strong survive.

If you're referring to Amazon making a deal with New York State for their headquarters, all companies that move into NY get special deals reducing their taxes and other benefits.  It is true that Amazon got some additional benefits because of their size and advantages to NYS including 25,000 high paying jobs.  But special tax and other benefits are part of NYS's offers they make across the board. Even with it, more companies are moving out of NY on a net basis because the taxes and other costs to do business there are oppressive.  States that have less taxes or none at all like Florida and Texas, don't have to make deals.

[Alan Klein]

So you Alan have accepted no governmental health care OR SS, OR Medicare, OR Medicaid?
Yes or no (period) is all we need to know the degree of hypocritical behavior from you.

Strike through necessary to divert attention from rubbish generalizations so often seen over these pages.

Lower taxes to millionaires a billionaires from Trumps tax cuts just a few years ago, something Biden is trying to revert with zero support from most republicans. A degree of hypocritical behavior from them as well.

I would have preferred putting money into my own retirement account all my life and savings personally.  However, I was forced to give the government hundreds of thousand of dollars over my life into SS which was matched by my employer who could have raised my salary if they didn;t have to pay into my social security as well.  So I am entitled to get that money back.  It's my money, not the government's,  I earned it.  They just took it from me.  Same with Medicare.  By the way, my SS is still taxes as income so I:m still giving part of it back to the government.  And I have to still pay thousands every year for Medicare insurance the government charges everyone.  Your argument I shouldn't get back my money is beyond fairness and reason.  .

Meanwhile there are people like my sister-in-law who unfortunately passed away at 59 years old after giving into SS all her life and never collecting back a dime, nor does any of her money get inherited by her heirs.  Where's the fairness in that?  Had she been allowed to save her money instead of the government stealing it, and using it for other things so you'll never get yours when the time comes for you to collect SS either because it's all gone, she could have left an inheritance.

 

[Alan Klein]

Tax rates have consistently gone down since the end of WWII.  Wealth disparity has consistently increased.  Get out of here with that nonsense.

Tax rates have not gone down if you include SS, Medicare, state income taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, gasoline taxes, etc.  Taxes on the middle class especially has gone up not down. That's why they are in such dire straits even though most families have both adults working unlike years ago when only one worked.

It's true that the wealthy have gotten wealthier.  All the printing that Fed does has contributed to that.  Look at what's going on with the stock market, real estate, and other asset classes? Inflation raise assets which are mainly owned by wealthier people.  Meanwhile the poor and middle class have higher prices lowering their standard of living.  Their savings with no interest is being inflated away in value.  Trump didn't help with his deficit spending.  And Biden is worse.  Who do you think his 6 trillion dollar plans are going to help as the Fed has to print the money to pay for it? 

[digitaldog]

I would have preferred putting money into my own retirement account all my life and savings personally.

Your inability to answer a simple yes or no question speaks volumes!
So lets put this into the Alan category of "don't do what I do, do what I say".
Want to try again?

American has been part socialitst a long time.  It's what has been casuing our problems for so long.  50% of our health care is governmental paid for.  We have SS, Medicare, Medicaid. The government is printing and redistributing trillions of dollars causing inflation and wiping out the middle class's savings, retirement,  and value of their salaries.  Higher taxes over decades has been hollowing out the middle class. Period.

So you Alan have accepted no governmental health care OR SS, OR Medicare, OR Medicaid?
Yes or no (period) is all we need to know the degree of hypocritical behavior from you.

By the way, my SS is still taxes as income so I:m still giving part of it back to the government

And if you used the US highways as just one example, you might consider what that 'giving back' purchased for you. You a Veteran Alan? You think our taxes should go to support Vets (and the military)?
Perhaps however, aside from accepting governmental health care OR SS, OR Medicare, OR Medicaid, you just stay home, post generalizations and misunderstandings and don't use the resources your tax money is used for. And tax breaks for the super rich, that's fine.

[Alan Klein]

Your inability to answer a simple yes or no question speaks volumes!
So lets put this into the Alan category of "don't do what I do, do what I say".
Want to try again? So you Alan have accepted no governmental health care OR SS, OR Medicare, OR Medicaid?
Yes or no (period) is all we need to know the degree of hypocritical behavior from you. And if you used the US highways as just one example, you might consider what that 'giving back' purchased for you. You a Veteran Alan? You think our taxes should go to support Vets (and the military)?
Perhaps however, aside from accepting governmental health care OR SS, OR Medicare, OR Medicaid, you just stay home, post generalizations and misunderstandings and don't use the resources your tax money is used for. And tax breaks for the super rich, that's fine.

It's my money that the government stole from me that they're giving back to me as they promised.  Being forced to accept that money back because I couldn't afford retirement because they stole my money is perfectly moral and acceptable.  What do you suggest I do?  Starve? 

You remind me of what Reagan I think it was who said.  First the government breaks your leg.  Then you're forced to accept a crutch from them to get around and they tell you how much they're doing for you when they give you the crutch.  That's what SS and Medicare are. First they stake your money that you earned.  Then they give it back to you, maybe, and they say how much they're doing for you.   You're trying to turn it into a gift reminds me of the Soviets and all socialist arguments.   OF course the joke is going to be on you when the government runs out of money for SS and Medicare and they cut your benefits.

[digitaldog]

It's my money that the government stole from me that they're giving back to me as they promised. 

Stole. Hilarious rubbish.
You are entitled to have an opinion. I am just letting you know that it is really very stupid.

You remind me of what Reagan I think it was who said...

You think or you just don't know?
Confusion between Ronald Reagan and Harry Browne. Confused.
Anyway, Reagan is probably turning in his grave if he saw what you modern republicans are doing and he'd be booed off any stage he'd speak at today, along with Liz Cheney and Mitt.   

OF course the joke is going to be on you when the government runs out of money for SS and Medicare and they cut your benefits.

The money you're now accepting? The lack of a yes or no answer again speaks volumes about hypocrisy. 

[TechTalk]

Fortunately, many people are aware that Social Security is an insurance program and not an investment program. Like unemployment insurance, Medicare, or any other type of insurance program, you pay premiums over time and receive benefits when needed. With insurance programs, you may receive more in benefits than you paid in premiums or you might not, depending on your particular circumstances.

I think most people understand how this works, but certainly not all do. Social Security is an insurance program to replace income loss due to retirement, disability, or loss of spouse. It is not intended to replace individual saving and investment for retirement. It has been an extraordinarily successful program in reducing poverty.

Like any insurance program, the premiums take money from your pocket that you could otherwise spend or invest. The purpose of insurance is to provide protection and stability when benefits are needed and increase security by reducing financial uncertainty and making unforeseeable losses manageable—and that does come with a cost. Then again, who doesn't recognize the need to insure the things that are most valuable in their lives? Homes, cars, health, life, and income are all valuable and would all seem to fit into the realm of things worth insuring.

[Robert Roaldi]

If you're referring to Amazon making a deal with New York State for their headquarters, all companies that move into NY get special deals reducing their taxes and other benefits.  It is true that Amazon got some additional benefits because of their size and advantages to NYS including 25,000 high paying jobs.  But special tax and other benefits are part of NYS's offers they make across the board. Even with it, more companies are moving out of NY on a net basis because the taxes and other costs to do business there are oppressive.  States that have less taxes or none at all like Florida and Texas, don't have to make deals.

To summarize then, government picking winners is bad, except when it's good.

[TechTalk]

Anyone else find it ludicrous to say that regarding taxes, Florida and Texas have "none at all"?