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Author Topic: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa  (Read 471076 times)

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10080 on: April 19, 2021, 09:11:57 am »

I guess since this was only "an early planning proposal" everything is okay. The thing is now they've got everyone sitting on the edge of their chairs to see what code word for white supremacy they are finally going to come up with.

Be fun to see their meeting minutes or background material. When they draw up their continuum, from "swarthy" to "lily white", I'd be very curious to see where "Italo-Canadians" (I was born in Canada) like me fit in. My family is from northern Italy but in my neighbourhood I grew up with Neapolitan, Calabrese and Sicilian kids whose skin ended up a bit darker than mine in summer. There were also many non-Italians in my neighbourhood. I like cold weather and am useless at soccer though, would I be a designated "Anglo-Saxon" then, I wonder. Would there be ID cards?

Friends and I used to catch the Sunday morning preachers on TV when we were teenagers for the laughs. There was one guy, Garner Ted Armstrong, who claimed that white Americans were descendants of one of the lost tribes of Israel. I suspect he was probably not the originator of the idea. I think they caught him with what they used to call a "stewardess", a female one, if I remember right.
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faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10081 on: April 19, 2021, 09:38:24 am »

Friends and I used to catch the Sunday morning preachers on TV when we were teenagers for the laughs. There was one guy, Garner Ted Armstrong, who claimed that white Americans were descendants of one of the lost tribes of Israel. I suspect he was probably not the originator of the idea. I think they caught him with what they used to call a "stewardess", a female one, if I remember right.

I am having trouble thinking of an evangelical TV preacher who hasn't gotten caught with a "stewardess". Before they are caught, they preach hellfire and damnation, and after they are caught they preach mercy and forgiveness - the old "we are all sinners" routine. The real question is why, if we are all sinners, am I driving around in a AMC Gremlin, and you are flying around in a private jet?
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10082 on: April 19, 2021, 10:43:18 am »

I am having trouble thinking of an evangelical TV preacher who hasn't gotten caught with a "stewardess". Before they are caught, they preach hellfire and damnation, and after they are caught they preach mercy and forgiveness - the old "we are all sinners" routine. The real question is why, if we are all sinners, am I driving around in a AMC Gremlin, and you are flying around in a private jet?

If you have kept an AMC Gremlin running after all these years, my hat's off to you. You should get a medal or something, or a ribbon maybe. Or maybe your mechanic should. :)

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faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10083 on: April 19, 2021, 11:46:18 am »

If you have kept an AMC Gremlin running after all these years, my hat's off to you. You should get a medal or something, or a ribbon maybe. Or maybe your mechanic should. :)

I am sorry to say I have never had the privilege of owning, or even driving, an AMC Gremlin. It was the least desirable car I could think of off the top of my head to juxtapose against a private jet. That's not to say I haven't owned other cars which rusted to a fine powder before my very eyes.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10084 on: April 19, 2021, 12:48:28 pm »

I am sorry to say I have never had the privilege of owning, or even driving, an AMC Gremlin. It was the least desirable car I could think of off the top of my head to juxtapose against a private jet. That's not to say I haven't owned other cars which rusted to a fine powder before my very eyes.
That's the second time recently you deliberately lied in a post to make a point.  Pretty soon we won't be able to trust anything you say.

faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10085 on: April 19, 2021, 12:54:01 pm »

I have been watching some of the Derek Chauvin trial, including the defense's closing argument to the jury this morning, and I think I would fire all the lawyers and start over with some new ones who had at least a flicker of passion in their performances. It is so low-key you'd think they were arguing over a parking ticket. And it started off so well with the prosecution showing the excruciatingly long video of Derek Chauvin kneeling on George Floyd's neck until he was dead.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2021, 04:59:22 pm by faberryman »
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faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10086 on: April 19, 2021, 01:06:32 pm »

That's the second time recently you deliberately lied in a post to make a point.  Pretty soon we won't be able to trust anything you say.

Who exactly is this "we" you are talking about not being able to trust anything I say?
« Last Edit: April 19, 2021, 01:40:05 pm by faberryman »
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10087 on: April 19, 2021, 02:00:13 pm »

I am sorry to say I have never had the privilege of owning, or even driving, an AMC Gremlin. It was the least desirable car I could think of off the top of my head to juxtapose against a private jet.
My very first car was a 1971 AMC Hornet beat to sh&* my dad got at an auction, 110 thousand miles for $1100.
The Gremlin was uglier.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10088 on: April 19, 2021, 09:29:03 pm »

I am sorry to say I have never had the privilege of owning, or even driving, an AMC Gremlin. It was the least desirable car I could think of off the top of my head to juxtapose against a private jet. That's not to say I haven't owned other cars which rusted to a fine powder before my very eyes.

Gremlin or not, sounds like you've paid your dues to the car gods. Poor Andrew had a Hornet. My first was a 1971 Peugeot 204 4-door sedan with 4 on the tree; when it rained the floor filled up with water and I had to drill drain holes.
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10089 on: April 20, 2021, 02:09:34 pm »

That's the second time recently you deliberately lied in a post to make a point.  Pretty soon we won't be able to trust anything you say.

Is a guilty conscience gnawing at you?
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10090 on: April 20, 2021, 03:03:24 pm »

Is a guilty conscience gnawing at you?
Nah.  Just getting even.

TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10091 on: April 20, 2021, 03:06:06 pm »

I have been watching some of the Derek Chauvin trial, including the defense's closing argument to the jury this morning, and I think I would fire all the lawyers and start over with some new ones who had at least a flicker of passion in their performances. It is so low-key you'd think they were arguing over a parking ticket. And it started off so well with the prosecution showing the excruciatingly long video of Derek Chauvin kneeling on George Floyd's neck until he was dead.

I've watched almost the entirety of the trial online. Watching online is certainly a timesaver as you can skip past the breaks, lunches, and silent sidebar conferences.

I thought the prosecution presented an excellent case for an unauthorized and unlawful excessive use of force leading to the cause of death. I also though they had a well balanced presentation to humanize George Floyd to the jury.

The prosecution is walking multiple tightropes simultaneously in their presentation. Although the jury will have access to the exhibits that were entered, they will not have access to a trial transcript for review. They have to rely on their memory and notes for witness testimony. So, they need to drive home specific points without becoming so repetitious that it dilutes the impact. They also have to present the strongest case they can without giving the jury an appearance of bias toward the defendant or the withholding of any evidence not favorable to their case. They also want to present a vigorous prosecution and strong rebuttal to defense arguments while trying to avoid grounds for the defense to appeal. Unsurprisingly, as soon as the case was given over to the jury, the defense began presenting motions alleging prosecutorial misconduct and judicial error to lay the groundwork for appeal in case of a guilty verdict.

The defense was relatively brief in presenting a small number of witnesses to rebut the legion of witnesses presented by the prosecution. They appear to have decided to attempt to sow just enough reasonable doubt regarding use of force and cause of death to avoid conviction. Why they decided on such a limited defense strategy isn't clear to me. Perhaps it's partly an awareness of how difficult it is to get a guilty verdict against a police officer due to the difficulty of drawing a bright line between use of force and unlawfully excessive use of force. I thought the defense did a better job in sowing doubt regarding use of force than they did cause of death.

In any event, it's a fools errand to predict jury decisions. No decision made by the jury would be a surprise to me, regardless of how one personally views the trial proceedings or the event that led to it.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10092 on: April 20, 2021, 03:32:34 pm »

I've watched almost the entirety of the trial online. Watching online is certainly a timesaver as you can skip past the breaks, lunches, and silent sidebar conferences.

I thought the prosecution presented an excellent case for an unauthorized and unlawful excessive use of force leading to the cause of death. I also though they had a well balanced presentation to humanize George Floyd to the jury.

The prosecution is walking multiple tightropes simultaneously in their presentation. Although the jury will have access to the exhibits that were entered, they will not have access to a trial transcript for review. They have to rely on their memory and notes for witness testimony. So, they need to drive home specific points without becoming so repetitious that it dilutes the impact. They also have to present the strongest case they can without giving the jury an appearance of bias toward the defendant or the withholding of any evidence not favorable to their case. They also want to present a vigorous prosecution and strong rebuttal to defense arguments while trying to avoid grounds for the defense to appeal. Unsurprisingly, as soon as the case was given over to the jury, the defense began presenting motions alleging prosecutorial misconduct and judicial error to lay the groundwork for appeal in case of a guilty verdict.

The defense was relatively brief in presenting a small number of witnesses to rebut the legion of witnesses presented by the prosecution. They appear to have decided to attempt to sow just enough reasonable doubt regarding use of force and cause of death to avoid conviction. Why they decided on such a limited defense strategy isn't clear to me. Perhaps it's partly an awareness of how difficult it is to get a guilty verdict against a police officer due to the difficulty of drawing a bright line between use of force and unlawfully excessive use of force. I thought the defense did a better job in sowing doubt regarding use of force than they did cause of death.

In any event, it's a fools errand to predict jury decisions. No decision made by the jury would be a surprise to me, regardless of how one personally views the trial proceedings or the event that led to it.
I only saw bits and pieces and wouldn't give my opinion as to guilt.  I did see the part how the judge was totally ticked off at Congresswoman Waters who publically said to demonstrators against the cop that he was guilty and they should riot if he isn't found that way.  The judge said that certainly could be used on appeal.  I'm surprised he said that even if true as it just adds to controversy of this whole trial having the appearance of being decided in the court of public opinion. 

TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10093 on: April 20, 2021, 03:56:15 pm »

Congresswoman Waters who publically said to demonstrators against the cop that he was guilty and they should riot if he isn't found that way.

What Maxine Waters said was both inflammatory and stupid. But, she did NOT tell people to riot. It is just another in a string of misquotes by you. How unfortunate that you feel compelled to resort to this sort of dishonest discourse. Sadder still that you are unable or unwilling to acknowledge that you engage in such conduct.

...this whole trial having the appearance of being decided in the court of public opinion.

Every high profile trial brings with it a variety of public opinion. It's nothing new and short of holding secret trials behind closed doors, there is nothing to prevent members of the public from forming or expressing opinions.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10094 on: April 20, 2021, 03:58:41 pm »

What Maxine Waters said was both inflammatory and stupid. But, she did NOT tell people to riot. It is just another in a string of misquotes by you.


Yes, very true, as is the follow statement,

What Donald Trump said was both inflammatory and stupid. But, he did NOT tell people to riot.

Yet, it was good enough to get him impeach, and, as they say, what's good for the goose is good for the gander (or in this case it perhaps should be the other way around). 
« Last Edit: April 20, 2021, 04:10:50 pm by JoeKitchen »
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10095 on: April 20, 2021, 04:00:55 pm »


In any event, it's a fools errand to predict jury decisions. No decision made by the jury would be a surprise to me, regardless of how one personally views the trial proceedings or the event that led to it.

Decision has been made, soon to be read. 

I do agree it is a fool's errand to predict the jury's decision.  However, my prediction is, regardless of what decision is made, riots will ensue tonight.  The reasoning for such has already been laid down by a few Dems, such as Waters, insisting that if he is not convicted of 1st degree murder, unrest needs to follow.  Of course, he can not be convicted of 1st degree since he was not charged with that, a detail many on the street dont know, many dont care to know, and many do know yet just dont care. 

God speed everyone. 
« Last Edit: April 20, 2021, 04:24:50 pm by JoeKitchen »
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10096 on: April 20, 2021, 04:05:07 pm »

Yes, very true, as is the follow statement,

What Donald Trump said was both inflammatory and stupid. But, he did NOT tell people to riot. It is just another in a string of misquotes by you.

I never said that Donald Trump told people to riot. Why say that I did? Really a disappointment there Joe.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10097 on: April 20, 2021, 04:08:35 pm »

I never said that Donald Trump told people to riot. Why say that I did?

I only meant to keep the first two sentences, and wrote this as a rhetorical rebuke to the overall defense of Waters from the left, not directed at you.  I should have been more clear on that. 

However, what she said was more inflammatory then what Trump said on the 6th, yet I still do not think it fits the high legal bar of inciting a riot.  Her's I feel is more akin to showing up to a barn burning and instead of trying to help put it out, suggests everyone should gather round and make S'mores. 

Not criminal, but not moral. 
« Last Edit: April 20, 2021, 04:15:49 pm by JoeKitchen »
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faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10098 on: April 20, 2021, 05:08:42 pm »

The jury found Derek Chauvin guilty on all three counts: second degree murder, third degree murder, and second degree manslaughter. The crowd appears calm outside the Hennepin County courthouse.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2021, 06:35:15 pm by faberryman »
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10099 on: April 20, 2021, 05:16:35 pm »

I only meant to keep the first two sentences, and wrote this as a rhetorical rebuke to the overall defense of Waters from the left, not directed at you.  I should have been more clear on that.

Thanks for clarifying that. I appreciate it.

However, what she said was more inflammatory then what Trump said on the 6th, yet I still do not think it fits the high legal bar of inciting a riot.

I think that regarding Trump, it isn't what he said or did on a single day or moment that led to the riot at the Capitol. It's what he frequently repeated time-and-again before, during, and after the election that built up to the crescendo on January 6th. Encouraging people to believe that democracy itself was being taken away from them; the country they knew was being destroyed; and they needed to save it. The rally on January 6th was called the "Save America Rally" which has a pretty strong implication in the title alone!

Not criminal, but not moral.

In both cases courts will decide criminality and individuals will decide morality. In both the Trump and Waters comments, perhaps we can both agree that the comments were stupid and inflammatory.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2021, 05:35:09 pm by TechTalk »
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