Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[faberryman]

Biden to follow Trump's China policy while changing the style a little.  But tariffs, military presence, and tough positions will remain in force.  Suddenly, tariffs are good again. It was easy to criticize Trump's policies from the outside.  But when you're in charge of protecting American interests, the chessboard changes a lot.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/joe-biden/biden-raises-concerns-chinese-president-first-official-phone-call-n1257405

You may wish to re-read the article more carefully.

[digitaldog]

Biden to follow Trump's China policy while changing the style a little.  But tariffs, military presence, and tough positions will remain in force.

Did you actually read this?
"Biden doesn't plan for now to lift tariffs on China that were imposed by the Trump administration, senior administration officials said before the call, and he is unlikely to reduce the U.S. military presence in Asia, as former President Donald Trump had threatened to do".
And:
"Officials said one difference in Biden's approach will be an emphasis on engaging with U.S. allies, both in Europe and in the Asia Pacific region. Biden is expected, for example, to attend international forums for countries in the region, such as the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, or ASEAN, and the East Asia Summit, although it's unclear whether his appearances would be virtual given the pandemic. Former President Barack Obama regularly attended the ASEAN summit, for example, but Trump skipped it after his first year in office".
So yes, I agree with you Alan, Biden to follow Trump's China policy expect where he will not.

Suddenly, tariffs are good again

Again? All tariffs or just China? Do tell us when and where Biden said 'No tariffs now or ever' or something to that result.

[digitaldog]

You may wish to re-read the article more carefully.

+1, with examples where he clearly didn't.
I suspect, the famous "little" ignore list may suddenly grow. 

[digitaldog]

Meanwhile back to the pandemic:

About 40% of the nation’s coronavirus deaths could have been prevented if the United States’ average death rate matched other industrialized nations, a new Lancet Commission report has found.
While the Lancet Commission on Public Policy and Health in the Trump Era faulted former President Donald Trump’s “inept and insufficient” response to COVID-19, its report said roots of the nation’s poor health outcomes are much deeper.

Public health measures such as mask wearing and physical distancing could have saved lives, Woolhandler said, but Trump failed to create a national response, instead leaving crucial decisions to states.
His actions "caused a lot of citizens to fail to take it seriously and interfered with the kind of coordinated response they have been able to use in a lot of countries that are more successful than the U.S. in controlling the epidemic,"  Woolhandler said.
In addition to response to the pandemic, the report said Trump weakened the Affordable Care Act, and 2.3 million more Americans became uninsured, a figure that does not include those who lost employer-provided coverage during the pandemic.

40% of (as of today) 471 thousand Americans.
And some Republicans in the Senate see no blood on Trumps hands for January 6th.

[Alan Klein]

Did you actually read this?
"Biden doesn't plan for now to lift tariffs on China that were imposed by the Trump administration, senior administration officials said before the call, and he is unlikely to reduce the U.S. military presence in Asia, as former President Donald Trump had threatened to do".
And:
"Officials said one difference in Biden's approach will be an emphasis on engaging with U.S. allies, both in Europe and in the Asia Pacific region. Biden is expected, for example, to attend international forums for countries in the region, such as the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, or ASEAN, and the East Asia Summit, although it's unclear whether his appearances would be virtual given the pandemic. Former President Barack Obama regularly attended the ASEAN summit, for example, but Trump skipped it after his first year in office".
So yes, I agree with you Alan, Biden to follow Trump's China policy expect where he will not. Again? All tariffs or just China? Do tell us when and where Biden said 'No tariffs now or ever' or something to that result.

I said except for a change in style.  So Biden will go to meetings.  Big deal.  Trump's tariffs and amped-up US Navy presence in the South China Sea will continue.  Trump also developed better security with South Korea and Japan and others where we had military exercises with them during his term.  So Biden is going to have tea with them, something Trump saw as a silly pretense having nothing to do with real policy. Biden's just making a point of it to make it seem like his policy is different.  But it isn't.

[Alan Klein]

Meanwhile back to the pandemic:40% of (as of today) 471 thousand Americans.
And some Republicans in the Senate see no blood on Trumps hands for January 6th.

It would be helpful if you would include the link for the source of your quote so we can read the entirety of it.

[digitaldog]

I said except for a change in style. 

You did. I  illustrated, in the article you provided, some but not all changes that are not in style.

It would be helpful if you would include the link for the source of your quote so we can read the entirety of it.

For what, the total death rate of Americans from Covid-19? That's not an article; it's stat's from the CDC and others; super easy to look up and verify (and changing by the hour).
I provided the source: Lancet Commission on Public Policy and Health.
Do you know about The Lancet?

About the journal
The Lancet is an independent, international weekly general medical journal founded in 1823 by Thomas Wakley. Since its first issue (October 5, 1823), the journal has strived to make science widely available so that medicine can serve, and transform society, and positively impact the lives of people. The Lancet is committed to applying scientific knowledge to improve health and advance human progress. In our weekly issues, and online first content, we publish some of the best science from the best scientists worldwide, providing an unparalleled global reach and impact on health.

The Lancet has grown from a 19th century pamphlet to a high impact, international journal. The Lancet is proud to have published papers that have made a crucial contribution to science and human health. View a selection of our research landmarks from more than 10 000 published issues.

[LesPalenik]

It would be helpful if you would include the link for the source of your quote so we can read the entirety of it.

According to worldometers.info, the number of dead Americans climbed today to over 485,000. And that doesn't include all other deaths due to stopped surgeries, cancer treatments and other factors, caused by overloaded hospitals and doctors.

[faberryman]

According to worldometers.info, the number of dead Americans climbed today to over 485,000. And that doesn't include all other deaths due to stopped surgeries, cancer treatments and other factors, caused by overloaded hospitals and doctors.

Alan has all sorts of excuses for why the number of COVID deaths in the US is so high. They do not include ineptitude on the part of Donald Trump.

[digitaldog]

Alan has all sorts of excuses for why the number of COVID deaths in the US is so high. They do not include ineptitude on the part of Donald Trump.

And to be fair, it's not all Trumps fault. But a lot is, as outlined by The Lancet.

[John Camp]

And to be fair, it's not all Trumps fault. But a lot is, as outlined by The Lancet.

But to be even more fair, the part that isn't Trump's fault may not have been realistically preventable -- at the beginning, there was a lot of confusion and a lot of missing information that had to be developed over time. But even very early on, there were good indications that masks had some efficacy, and that shutdowns and social distancing had some good effect, and Trump's resistance to these things, right to the bitter end, probably contributed to tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of death in the US. He has more blood on his hands than any other living American; or possibly, any American, period.

[digitaldog]

But to be even more fair, the part that isn't Trump's fault may not have been realistically preventable -- at the beginning, there was a lot of confusion and a lot of missing information that had to be developed over time.

Yes. This was a very new virus, much was unknown about it. Yes, at one time early on, the CDC didn't recommend masks, certainly not N95s or similar, there were not enough for those who really needed them (first responders, hospital staff). But the science evolved. Today, depending on the 'mask' used, it's recommended some wear two masks. The science is learning more about the variants. And had the Trump admin been doing sufficient testing of variants, we might have been ahead of that curve. But what Trump did largely, after the science of mask use was abundantly clear, was do the opposite. He made them political and refused to embrace them. Hence the Lancet review of Trump.

But even very early on, there were good indications that masks had some efficacy, and that shutdowns and social distancing had some good effect, and Trump's resistance to these things, right to the bitter end, probably contributed to tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of death in the US. He has more blood on his hands than any other living American; or possibly, any American, period.

+1. So yes, even if the 40% is half wrong (and I'm not questioning The Lancet), 20% is still a lot of blood on his hands.

[Alan Klein]

Governors are responsible for opening and closing venues,  not the federal government or Trump . Democrat gov Cuomo of  NY created a situation where 13000 old people died of Covid because of his directives.  Is gov Newsom responsible for all the California deaths? Did Europeans die because they listened to Trump?

[faberryman]

Governors are responsible for opening and closing venues,  not the federal government or Trump . Democrat gov Cuomo of  NY created a situation where 13000 old people died of Covid because of his directives.  Is gov Newsom responsible for all the California deaths? Did Europeans die because they listened to Trump?

See the deflection to the governors, specifically Cuomo and Newsome, which we all recognize as the logical fallacy of whataboutism, and then, for some inexplicable reason, a question whether Europeans died because they listened to Trump. Europeans? What about Martians?

[digitaldog]

Governors are responsible for opening and closing venues,  not the federal government or Trump .

Indeed, not all Governors are created equally and have done a good job here. Mine has IMHO (look at the reopening of many counties in New Mexico going from Red to Yellow and Green).

Democrat gov Cuomo of  NY created a situation where 13000 old people died of Covid because of his directives.

I had no idea of this. So please provide some outside factual reference that shows Cuomo was totally responsible for 13000 'old' people dying of Covid-19.

Is gov Newsom responsible for all the California deaths? Did Europeans die because they listened to Trump?

Do you know the percentage the USA makes up of the worlds population?
Do you know the percentage of worldwide deaths from Covid-19, (that we know of) in comparison to the USA?
Last time I checked, the US has about 4% of the worlds population and about 25% of the worlds death from Covid-19. Seems odd, sad, someone, many, are responsible for these facts.
Either the US has a very high percentage of really stupid people, or it has an unusually high percentage of people highly susceptible to Covid-19 (zero proof), or the US had a very poor response to the pandemic from the top down (the last administration, their policies and messaging, lack of leadership).
Trump isn't responsible for all the deaths, that's been made clear. The data from The Lancet states a 'mere' 40%.
IF Alan, you have data that illustrates The Lancet is way off, you can provide it at any time.

[digitaldog]

So Biden will go to meetings.  Big deal.  Trump's tariffs and amped-up US Navy presence in the South China Sea will continue.

Well this just in Alan and I highly suspect, Biden isn't going to be spending this kind of money on 400 customized pens from China! 

Pompeo State Department spent $10k on “Madison Dinner” pens shipped from China
WASHINGTON — The U.S. State Department spent more than $10,000 on customized pens ordered from China to dole out as gifts for guests for then-Secretary of State Mike Pompeo's dinner guests, new documents show, while Pompeo was publicly pushing an aggressive stance toward Beijing.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/blog/meet-press-blog-latest-news-analysis-data-driving-political-discussion-n988541/ncrd1257505#blogHeader
Your tax dollars at work:

In May, NBC News revealed that Pompeo had been hosting a series of elite, private dinners funded by the taxpayer at the State Department for Republican leaders, billionaire CEOs, celebrities and even Supreme Court justices. State Department officials had raised concerns internally that Pompeo was using federal resources to build a powerful rolodex for his own political future.

Yeah, that Trump dude was hard on China. 

[Alan Klein]

Alan has all sorts of excuses for why the number of COVID deaths in the US is so high. They do not include ineptitude on the part of Donald Trump.

The main cause of the deaths was the disease.  Sure Trump could have done things differently as could have Cuomo, Newsom, the CDC, Fauci, and European leaders.  Certainly, the Chinese added to the spread by knowingly sending their infected people around the world. 

Both my wife and I voted for Trump twice but we also wear masks.  We're adults and so is everyone else.  We all knew the score.  You'd have to be living in a cave to not understand what was going on how the mask was a political football on both sides. But in the end, the disease was the culprit.

[digitaldog]

The main cause of the deaths was the disease.

Profound  but it ignores the question asked; WHY the alarming high rate of death of Americans, compared to other countries?

Certainly, the Chinese added to the spread by knowingly sending their infected people around the world. 

And despite his claim, Trump knowing letting so many in...
https://apnews.com/article/d227b34b168e576bf5068b92a03c003d

[chez]

Biden to follow Trump's China policy while changing the style a little.  But tariffs, military presence, and tough positions will remain in force.  Suddenly, tariffs are good again. It was easy to criticize Trump's policies from the outside.  But when you're in charge of protecting American interests, the chessboard changes a lot.


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/joe-biden/biden-raises-concerns-chinese-president-first-official-phone-call-n1257405

I guess Biden will also need to continue writing big record breaking checks to the farmers as Trump was doing as their produce was not wanted anymore by China. China has found a friend in Brazil where Chinese imports of soybeans have almost doubled in 2020 while imports from the US fell by over 50% leaving farmers holding the bag of soybeans. With a global world, there is always other suppliers for your needs.

[digitaldog]

I guess Biden will also need to continue writing big record breaking checks to the farmers as Trump was doing as their produce was not wanted anymore by China. China has found a friend in Brazil where Chinese imports of soybeans have almost doubled in 2020 while imports from the US fell by over 50% leaving farmers holding the bag of soybeans. With a global world, there is always other suppliers for your needs.

They should start growing marijuana after Biden “legalizes” it nationally 😜.