Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

1. "On December 10, 2015, Flynn ...

How many US functionaries, including former Presidents, have been giving speeches across the globe and being paid handsomely for that? Nothing you quoted amounts to "being paid by Putin to promote Russian propaganda."

2. So many "links to..." this entity that might have links to that entity that might have links to a foreign government.... blah, blah. I though you hate those "may," "might," "is suspected," etc. when it comes to alleged election fraud, no?

By the virtue of being a senior manager of an American company in Moscow, I was a member of the Russian-American Chamber of Commerce... didn't know I might have been considered a "secret" agent of the Russian government.

While we are on that subject, shouldn't Hunter Biden be prosecuted for the failure to register as a foreign agent?

[faberryman]

While we are on that subject, shouldn't Hunter Biden be prosecuted for the failure to register as a foreign agent?

What did Hunter Biden do that would require him to register as a foreign agent?

[Alan Klein]

1. "On December 10, 2015, Flynn attended a gala dinner in Moscow in honor of RT (formerly "Russia Today"), a Russian government-owned English-language media outlet, on which he made semi-regular appearances as an analyst after he retired from U.S. government service."

"Flynn sat next to Russian President Vladimir Putin at the dinner, leading journalist Michael Crowley of Politico to report that "at a moment of semi-hostility between the U.S. and Russia, the presence of such an important figure at Putin's table startled" U.S. officials. As part of the festivities, Flynn gave a talk on world affairs for which he was paid at least $45,000. Flynn defended the RT payment in an interview with Michael Isikoff."

"On February 1, 2017, the ranking Democratic members on six House committees sent a letter to Secretary of Defense James Mattis, requesting a Department of Defense investigation into Flynn's connection to RT. The legislators expressed concern that Flynn had violated the Foreign Emoluments Clause of the U.S. Constitution by accepting money from RT."

Links to a few of the many news stories regarding Flynn, RT, and Putin are contained in the wikipedia RT section on Flynn.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Flynn#Attendance_at_RT_gala_dinner

2. If you would prefer "undisclosed" foreign agent to the word "secret", I'll happily modify my post to that word. Not all foreign agents are James Bond types. Some are simply propagandists, although you may prefer the word lobbyist instead. The $530,000 was funneled thru a third party which is not unusual when you're trying to conceal connections between two parties.

"By the end of September 2016, Flynn's consulting company was hired by Inovo BV, a company owned by Kamil Ekim Alptekin, the Chair of the Turkish-American Business Council, which is an arm of the Foreign Economic Relations Board of Turkey (DEIK). The company has links to President of Turkey Recep Tayyip Erdogan. Flynn was paid $530,000 by Alptekin for Flynn's lobbying work. Flynn only registered as a foreign agent with the Justice Department later on March 8, 2017, for the work completed by November 2016. Flynn acknowledged his work may have benefited Turkey's government."

"On November 8 (election day in the United States), an op-ed written by Flynn was published by The Hill, now calling for U.S. backing for Erdoğan's government and criticizing the regime's opponent, Fethullah Gülen, alleging that Gülen headed a "vast global network" that fit the description of "a dangerous sleeper terror network". At the time, Flynn did not disclose that his consulting firm had received funds from a company with ties to the Turkish government. After Flynn's ties had been disclosed by The Daily Caller, Politico, and others, the editor of The Hill added a note to Flynn's op-ed, stating that Flynn had failed to disclose that he had been engaged at the time in "consulting work that might have aided the government of Turkey", that his firm had received payments from a company with close ties to the Turkish government, or that the company had reviewed the draft of the op-ed before it was submitted to The Hill."

"On March 24, 2017, former Director of the CIA James Woolsey said that in September 2016 Flynn, while working for the Trump presidential campaign, had attended a meeting in a New York hotel with Turkish officials including foreign minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu and energy minister Berat Albayrak, son-in-law of Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, and had discussed abducting Fethullah Gülen and sending him to Turkey, bypassing the U.S. extradition legal process."

Again, you'll find links to multiple reports in the wikipedia article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Flynn#Foreign_agent

Mueller found no one in America including Flynn who colluded with the Russians. All this stuff with Putin etc. is meaningless.   Nor had Flynn been charged with emoluments or any other illegal act other than lying to the FBI who had set him up in the first place.  All your charges are innuendos and other stuff from Democrats who were trying to hang Trump.  It started within days of the inauguration and has;t stopped since.  We've been through all this before.  The charges don't get more proven by bringing them up all over again. 

This man served his country for over three decades.  He served honorably as a Lt General (3-star) and was willing to serve his country in security matters for Trump.  For four years he's been to hell and back, lost a fortune in legal fees, faced prison time, dealt with threats to his children with arrest, and other politically motivated attacks.  It's time to leave this guy alone.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

We have to remember that there are 330 million people, more or less, in the U.S., and so one crazy pastor calling for killing people, and one crazy Flynn calling for martial law, really doesn't amount to anything. Something we've never discussed much in this forum is the irresponsibility of the American media, even at the higher levels of it (WSJ, Wapo, NYT, Fox, CNN, MSNBC) in promoting this kind of stuff...

+1

I said a similar thing about mass murderers. Never publish their names, pictures, stories, etc, but instead do it for their victims. Most, if not all, do it for the notirity. Take it away, and they lose their primary motivation.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

What did Hunter Biden do that would require him to register as a foreign agent?

Lobbied inside the US Government on behalf of an Ukrainian entity that might have ties with the government. Remember, in Eastern Europe, any big and successful company must have ties with their governments. I am not familiar with his Chinese links, so can't speak about that.

[digitaldog]

New Tabulations in: Biden lead up to very close 7 million votes (6.9 million/51.3%) over Trump.
2016, Trump lost the popular vote by -2.9 million (45.9%) and he told us he won in a ”landslide”.

[Alan Klein]

We have to remember that there are 330 million people, more or less, in the U.S., and so one crazy pastor calling for killing people, and one crazy Flynn calling for martial law, really doesn't amount to anything. Something we've never discussed much in this forum is the irresponsibility of the American media, even at the higher levels of it (WSJ, Wapo, NYT, Fox, CNN, MSNBC) in promoting this kind of stuff. Some goofy pastor wants to kill people? Ignore him. If he goes to get a gun, that's an imminent threat, put him in jail. Problem solved. No need to have Wolf Blitzer screaming "Breaking News." The New York Times has more or less become a mouthpiece of the leftwing of the Democratic Party, just at the WSJ has become a mouthpiece of the rightwing Republicans. If you read about "capitalism" in the NYT, you realize that most of their opinion columnists have no idea of what it is; if you read about global warming in the WSJ opinion columns, you have to conclude that the writer is either stupid, or is deliberately ignoring the facts of the matter because he/she attaches to a particular political point of view. Wapo is a bit different because it's a paper that traditionally focused on politics (rather than "culture" or "business") and so takes somewhat of a technical attitude toward politics, and gives you fairly decent coverage of what's actually going on in American politics. (I also tend to trust the WSJ news columns on business news; and I mostly trust the hard news reporters for both the NYT and Wapo -- it's the columnists and editorialists, who have been promoted far above their natural importance, IMHO, that constitute the real problem. That also goes for the lead talking heads on Fox, CNN and MSNBC.)

But the NYT and WaPo news section are biased as well.  Additionally, the NYT columnists who write the articles then go on CNN or MSNBC to be interviewed and show their hatred of Trump.  So how can you trust their reporting?

[chez]

+1

I said a similar thing about mass murderers. Never publish their names, pictures, stories, etc, but instead do it for their victims. Most, if not all, do it for the notirity. Take it away, and they lose their primary motivation.

Can't that be said for Trump as well...take away his audience and he'll slip away into the night?

[digitaldog]

Lobbied inside the US Government on behalf of an Ukrainian entity that might have ties with the government. Remember, in Eastern Europe, any big and successful company must have ties with their governments. I am not familiar with his Chinese links, so can't speak about that.

Might not! When you have facts either way, do provide them!
My opinion is, you might not be able to. 🤔

[Alan Klein]

How many US functionaries, including former Presidents, have been giving speeches across the globe and being paid handsomely for that? Nothing you quoted amounts to "being paid by Putin to promote Russian propaganda."

2. So many "links to..." this entity that might have links to that entity that might have links to a foreign government.... blah, blah. I though you hate those "may," "might," "is suspected," etc. when it comes to alleged election fraud, no?

By the virtue of being a senior manager of an American company in Moscow, I was a member of the Russian-American Chamber of Commerce... didn't know I might have been considered a "secret" agent of the Russian government.

While we are on that subject, shouldn't Hunter Biden be prosecuted for the failure to register as a foreign agent?

I always knew something was up with you.  Hiding out in a photo forum to avoid suspicion.

[TechTalk]

Georgia election official pleads with Trump and Republicans to 'stop inciting acts of violence'

https://www.foxcarolina.com/georgia-election-official-pleads-with-trump-and-republicans-to-stop-inciting-acts-of-violence

"A Georgia election official on Tuesday condemned threats of physical violence and intimidation against election workers and officials, pleading with President Donald Trump to denounce the threats and urging both of the state's Republican senators to intervene."

"It's all gone too far," said Gabriel Sterling, the voting systems implementation manager for the Georgia secretary of state's office, during a Tuesday afternoon news conference at the Georgia Capitol."

"Sterling, a Republican, grew visibly emotional as he described an incident in which a video of a Dominion Voting Machines contractor in Gwinnett County was spread online with claims of vote manipulation. After the video circulated, the man was accused of treason and found a noose outside his house. The man's family members have received death threats, Sterling said."

"You need to step up and say this ... stop inspiring people to commit potential acts of violence," Sterling said, addressing the President. "Someone's going to get hurt, someone's going to get shot, someone's going to get killed, and it's not right."

"Sterling said he has had police protection at his home, and that Georgia GOP Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger's wife has received "sexualized threats." Threats against Raffensperger were said to be bolstered after Trump called Raffensperger an "enemy of the people."

"This is the backbone of democracy, and all of you who have not said a damn word are complicit in this," Sterling said."

"He added, "Death threats, physical threats, intimidation. It's too much. It's not right. They've lost the moral high ground to claim that it is."

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Can't that be said for Trump as well...take away his audience and he'll slip away into the night?

Perhaps. Some credit his rise in 2016 precisely to the disproportional media attention to his tweets and speeches. Say something moderate and polite, and the public goes into a collective snooze (Jeb Bush, anyone?). Say something outrageous, and the 24/7 media is happy like a pig in a puddle to amplify it and disseminate.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Georgia election official pleads with Trump and Republicans to 'stop inciting acts of violence' ...

I agree with that.

[TechTalk]

[Michael Flynn]  It's time to leave this guy alone.

Sure, I mean he's only calling for martial law and suspension of the Constitution. Leave the poor guy alone.

Apparently someone agrees with you...

https://www.youtube.com/Leave Michael Flynn Alone

[faberryman]

This man served his country for over three decades.  He served honorably as a Lt General (3-star) and was willing to serve his country in security matters for Trump.  For four years he's been to hell and back, lost a fortune in legal fees, faced prison time, dealt with threats to his children with arrest, and other politically motivated attacks.  It's time to leave this guy alone.

Well, if Michael Flynn would stop doing things designed to attract public attention to himself, the media might stop paying any attention to him. It seems to me he very much enjoys playing the role of a public figure. Running an advertisement in the Washington Times today encouraging Trump to suspend the Constitution and declare martial law is just the kind of thing that gets one noticed. Seems fair to comment on it.

[Peter McLennan]

This is getting crazier and crazier by the day.

Yah, right.  And you call my complaints about recent assaults on democracy "ridiculous".

[John Camp]

But the NYT and WaPo news section are biased as well.  Additionally, the NYT columnists who write the articles then go on CNN or MSNBC to be interviewed and show their hatred of Trump.  So how can you trust their reporting?

You're never going to get completely bias-free news, as black people have been arguing for years (a white perspective and education make it difficult to really understand what blacks are talking about when they claim systematic racism; good white reporters try, but they usually don't get there.) But I think the Times, Wapo and the WSJ **news** reporting is usually pretty good, within some wide limits. If you write "Two people were killed in a head-on crash on I-25 south of Santa Fe Wednesday night," it's pretty hard to claim bias. Most news reporting is in that category. Political news is somewhat different, in that people and opinions are constantly shifting. Yet, some excellent reporting can be done. I think Maggie Haberman of the Times did an excellent job of covering Trump. She knew him well, pointed out his lies, which were frequent, and on occasion, gave him credit for doing a good thing if she thought credit was due. Basically, she could be trusted; her judgment was proven good on multiple occasions, and even when giving opinions on various TV news programs, her opinions seemed based on solid reporting. Same is true of Bob Woodward's book on Trump, based on multiple in-person interviews which were recorded.

I think, Alan, that you sometimes assert things like "the NYT and WaPO news section are biased as well" simply because you don't like them, or that their stated factual reporting doesn't align with your opinion. If Maggie Haberman says X, based on years of reporting experience and first-hand knowledge of what Trump is doing, and she has a long-standing reputation for ethical reporting, and your opinion is otherwise, I'd go with Haberman, myself.

[faberryman]

I think, Alan, that you sometimes assert things like "the NYT and WaPO news section are biased as well" simply because you don't like them, or that their stated factual reporting doesn't align with your opinion. If Maggie Haberman says X, based on years of reporting experience and first-hand knowledge of what Trump is doing, and she has a long-standing reputation for ethical reporting, and your opinion is otherwise, I'd go with Haberman, myself.

Alan criticizes the New York Times and Washington Post as biased whenever they publish anything he disagrees with, and then quotes them when it suits his purpose. Then we have to hear all about "discernment". There is a word for such behavior.

[Alan Klein]

Sure, I mean he's only calling for martial law and suspension of the Constitution. Leave the poor guy alone.

Apparently someone agrees with you...

https://www.youtube.com/Leave Michael Flynn Alone

You're changing the subject.  You brought up old democratic accusations that were part of a smear campaign.  You accused him of colluding with the Russians, violating emoluments laws, and other illegal stuff, none of which he was charged with or found guilty of.   So now, ignoring my defense of your false charges, you now accuse him of exercising his right of free speech.  How many years do you think he should get? 

[faberryman]

So many "links to..." this entity that might have links to that entity that might have links to a foreign government.... blah, blah. I though you hate those "may," "might," "is suspected," etc. when it comes to alleged election fraud, no?

Lobbied inside the US Government on behalf of an Ukrainian entity that might have ties with the government. Remember, in Eastern Europe, any big and successful company must have ties with their governments. I am not familiar with his Chinese links, so can't speak about that.