Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[Alan Klein]

Wrong. Strong leadership from all levels of government have a huge impact on people's habits. Look at how we've changed our views towards throwing garbage out of our cars, wearing seat belts, smoking... Without strong leadership, these habits would not have changed. Trump going against wearing masks has a huge negative impact on the people.

Then why is it just as bad or worse in many other countries that have a strong central government unlike in America where each of the 50 states decide mask and shutdown provisions?

[JoeKitchen]

Back to the mask debate, I have asked repeatably for people here to show me the data that shows masks do something.  Not opinion pieces, and I do'nt give a rat's ass if the opinion piece is written by a doctor, but I want to see actual data. 

So far the two studies I have looked at where the data is available, there is no correlation between wearing masks and stopping the spread. A near equal percentage of persons in both the experiment group and control group wore masks, which implies there is no correlation to wearing a mask to keep from getting it. 

Now these studies do show that the ways in which you increase your chances of catching is if a close family member has it or if you dine out. 

So, once again, if masks actually do something, show me the data, because so far I have seen no data set that supports this notion. 

[jeremyrh]

Being able to challenge election results in a court of law is what a democracy is all about.

I'm sure Putin agrees with you. His opponents often end up in court.

[James Clark]

Back to the mask debate, I have asked repeatably for people here to show me the data that shows masks do something.  Not opinion pieces, and I do'nt give a rat's ass if the opinion piece is written by a doctor, but I want to see actual data. 

So far the two studies I have looked at where the data is available, there is no correlation between wearing masks and stopping the spread. A near equal percentage of persons in both the experiment group and control group wore masks, which implies there is no correlation to wearing a mask to keep from getting it. 

Now these studies do show that the ways in which you increase your chances of catching is if a close family member has it or if you dine out. 

So, once again, if masks actually do something, show me the data, because so far I have seen no data set that supports this notion.

Nature, Sept. 24. It also addresses previous studies showing that physical barriers capture particulates.

These observations directly demonstrate that wearing of surgical masks or KN95 respirators, even without fit-testing, substantially reduce the number of particles emitted from breathing, talking, and coughing. While the efficacy of cloth and paper masks is not as clear and confounded by shedding of mask fibers, the observations indicate it is likely that they provide some reductions in emitted expiratory particles, in particular the larger particles (> 0.5 μm). We have not directly measured virus emission; nonetheless, our results strongly imply that mask wearing will reduce emission of virus-laden aerosols and droplets associated with expiratory activities, unless appreciable shedding of viable viruses on mask fibers occurs. The majority of the particles emitted were in the aerosol range (< 5 μm). As inertial impaction should increase as particle size increases, it seems likely that the emission reductions observed here provide a lower bound for the reduction of particles in the droplet range (> 5 μm). Our observations are consistent with suggestions that mask wearing can help in mitigating pandemics associated with respiratory disease. Our results highlight the importance of regular changing of disposable masks and washing of homemade masks, and suggests that special care must be taken when removing and cleaning the masks.

[Alan Klein]

So that’s why all of those spring breakers in the US decided to say the heck with masks and social distancing?  Because they are mostly likely liberal and they listened to Trump?  Really you want us to they gave a dang about what Trump did or did not say?

And since I’m a Trump supporter why did I decide I wanted to wear a mask?  In your world I would not be wearing one.

I'm a Teump supporter too.  Yet I wear a mask. I don't listen to Trump about masks.  I'm not crazy.   In any case, governors make the rules.   Everyone forgets that Trump originally said he was going to make the rules.  All the governors told him to shut up.  He's not in charge.  They are. My governor of New Jersey just changed the rules again about restaurants.  No eating after 10pm. Another dumb rule like the virus only comes out at night like a vampire.  And you wonder why wer have such high rates.

[JoeKitchen]

In other news, and this I find to be both amusing and scary at the same time, Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel is now heading up Biden C-19 team. 

If you are wondering why this is scary, well a few years back Ezekiel Emanuel penned a whole article in which he argued people should not live past 75. 

Why I Hope to Die at 75

According to him, 75 is the best age to die at and it would be a net positive for society if we just let those over 75 whom "... are no longer remembered as vibrant and engaged but as feeble, ineffectual, even pathetic" (just think of Joe Biden) just die without trying to save them.  We should instead save those resources for younger more vibrant persons. 

He even went so far as to write if you're over 75 "... Flu shots are out. Certainly if there were to be a flu pandemic, a younger person who has yet to live a complete life ought to get the vaccine or any antiviral drugs."

So, Biden just hired someone to oversee a task force for a virus that kills mainly people over 75 who once argued that during a pandemic people over 75 should not get a vaccine because they already lead a complete life.  This is kind of a conflict of interest, don't you think? 

[Alan Klein]

What I understand is what Trump needs to win is to find evidence of organized large scale fraud for the benefit of Biden in a couple of independant states.
An organized fraud that until now never took place in election history, and as some people has said:
They were more alert than ususal to signal fraud since Trump was already talking about upcoming fraud the last couple of months.
So it is highly improbable that large scale fraud has occurred also since there were no spontaneous indications in any state that somehing had gone wrong.

Democrat Senator Kennedy won the presidency by election fraud in 1960. Democrat Mayor Daily packed the Chicago ballot boxes for him winning the state of Illinois and the electoral vote. You really need to stick to European politics.

[chez]

Democrat Senator Kennedy won the presidency by election fraud in 1960. Democrat Mayor Daily packed the Chicago ballot boxes for him winning the state of Illinois and the electoral vote. You really need to stick to European politics.

Ain't American democracy great!

[kers]

Democrat Senator Kennedy won the presidency by election fraud in 1960. Democrat Mayor Daily packed the Chicago ballot boxes for him winning the state of Illinois and the electoral vote. You really need to stick to European politics.

https://www.constitutioncenter.org/blog/the-drama-behind-president-kennedys-1960-election-win/
You ended up with the wrong conclusion ...

[Alan Klein]

The Libertarian Party and the Green Party together took 4.35% of the votes in 2016.  That is why Trump's and also Biden's (compared to Clinton) percentage increased.

Whatever you think of Biden he did get more than 50% of the votes, a record number of votes, he will most likely flip 5 states and he is currently leading the popular vote with 4.8 million votes. 

OK, so take off the third party votes.  Then you'd have Biden and Trump where Hillary and Trump were four years ago.  Also about 48% and 46%. Nothing changed much with Trump supporters with all the bad press over 4 years. Don't you find that interesting?  What does that mean?

[JV]

Biden's economic plan will bankrupt America. It's Socialist. 

I guess that is why Obama/Biden created more jobs than Trump as well? 

And they had 3.1% economic growth in 2015 which Trump didn't match either despite promises of 4, 5, and maybe even 6%...

[Alan Klein]

In other news, and this I find to be both amusing and scary at the same time, Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel is now heading up Biden C-19 team. 

If you are wondering why this is scary, well a few years back Ezekiel Emanuel penned a whole article in which he argued people should not live past 75. 

Why I Hope to Die at 75

According to him, 75 is the best age to die at and it would be a net positive for society if we just let those over 75 whom "... are no longer remembered as vibrant and engaged but as feeble, ineffectual, even pathetic" (just think of Joe Biden) just die without trying to save them.  We should instead save those resources for younger more vibrant persons. 

He even went so far as to write if you're over 75 "... Flu shots are out. Certainly if there were to be a flu pandemic, a younger person who has yet to live a complete life ought to get the vaccine or any antiviral drugs."

So, Biden just hired someone to oversee a task force for a virus that kills mainly people over 75 who once argued that during a pandemic people over 75 should not get a vaccine because they already lead a complete life.  This is kind of a conflict of interest, don't you think? 

I'm 75.😏

[JoeKitchen]

Nature, Sept. 24. It also addresses previous studies showing that physical barriers capture particulates.

Nice try, but this study looks at partial emissions only.  You may think this helps, but you really need to conduct real life studies to see if it does.  It could be that C-19 is so contagious, even removing 90% of partials from a person's breath will have no effect. 

As an analogy, if you were to wear a run of the mill respirator to protect yourself from a VX Nerve Agent would it remove most of the particles from the air you breath in?  Yes.  Would it save you?  No, because it is so deadly it would not matter.

[JoeKitchen]

Democrat Senator Kennedy won the presidency by election fraud in 1960. Democrat Mayor Daily packed the Chicago ballot boxes for him winning the state of Illinois and the electoral vote. You really need to stick to European politics.

Dont forget about LBJ.  He won his primary through voter fraud. 

[Alan Klein]

https://www.constitutioncenter.org/blog/the-drama-behind-president-kennedys-1960-election-win/
You ended up with the wrong conclusion ...

the article you quoted did not draw a substantive conclusion either way. The fact is Kennedy won Illinois by 9000 votes.    Certainly a lot less dead people Mayor Daley assembled on any other election occasion.   
😑

[Alan Klein]

The expression at the time was,  "The Democrats stole it fair and square. "

[JV]

OK, so take off the third party votes.  Then you'd have Biden and Trump where Hillary and Trump were four years ago.  Also about 48% and 46%. Nothing changed much with Trump supporters with all the bad press over 4 years. Don't you find that interesting?  What does that mean?

In my opinion it just illustrates that incumbency is a pretty big advantage in US Politics.  It is really hard to defeat an incumbent President. 

[Alan Klein]

I guess that is why Obama/Biden created more jobs than Trump as well? 

And they had 3.1% economic growth in 2015 which Trump didn't match either despite promises of 4, 5, and maybe even 6%...

Biden's move very far to the left to satisfy the AOC's. And the EOC's. 😂

[Alan Klein]

Dont forget about LBJ.  He won his primary through voter fraud. 

Worse,  his lies escalated the Vietnam War.

[faberryman]

Back to the mask debate, I have asked repeatably for people here to show me the data that shows masks do something.  Not opinion pieces, and I do'nt give a rat's ass if the opinion piece is written by a doctor, but I want to see actual data. 

So far the two studies I have looked at where the data is available, there is no correlation between wearing masks and stopping the spread. A near equal percentage of persons in both the experiment group and control group wore masks, which implies there is no correlation to wearing a mask to keep from getting it. 

Now these studies do show that the ways in which you increase your chances of catching is if a close family member has it or if you dine out. 

So, once again, if masks actually do something, show me the data, because so far I have seen no data set that supports this notion.

You have done what you consider adequate research on the internet, the arbiter of all truth in our society, and have determined masks don't help. Fine. Don't wear one. Why do you keep bleating on and on about it?