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Author Topic: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa  (Read 466221 times)

Peter McLennan

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #160 on: November 06, 2020, 10:53:28 am »

An independent election fraud investigation should be relatively easy to implement. It's been done before, why not do it again?

Let a bi-partisan committee arrange for an inquiry and let the various parties produce evidence to prove or disprove their claims in court .

Isn't this the American way?



Oh, wait.  Sorry.  A useless waste of time.  The <insert usual suspects here> will claim the investigation itself was fraudulent and nothing will change.
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Peter McLennan

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #161 on: November 06, 2020, 10:55:25 am »

The absurd is the last refuge of a pundit without an argument.Without absurdity, we would have no one to laugh at. Thank you for your contributions.

And his condescending insults.  We all benefit from them.
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James Clark

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #162 on: November 06, 2020, 10:56:28 am »

Which was a questionable call.  Was Trump lying about having evidence of fraud?  Either that or he is delusional: either—or both—would be consistent with his past behavior.  Were his claims baseless, irresponsible, and incendiary?  Sure, but what else is new?  Could they have emboldened some of his crazier supporters to engage in criminal behavior?  Maybe, but dealing with that is an issue for law enforcement, not journalists.  He is the presidential candidate of one of the two major U.S. political parties and the incumbent president.  When he has these televised public meltdowns, the public deserves to be exposed to them.  Hopefully, people will see them for what they are, but the proper role of the news media is to provide context and report factual inaccuracies, not to protect the public from witnessing angry outbursts by their elected officials.

I admire the ethical journalist in you, and while I largely and generally agree, isn't there a point where it becomes irresponsible to air things that *both* cause harm to to the community AND are wholly without evidence?   For example, if Joe Biden is eventually certified as president, and he begins to make speeches about how drug companies have a secret vaccine their not releasing because of embedded FDA Trump supporters, is it REALLY ok to keep broadcasting that as people get more and more desperate? 

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Craig Lamson

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #163 on: November 06, 2020, 10:59:23 am »

The absurd is the last refuge of a pundit without an argument.Without absurdity, we would have no one to laugh at. Thank you for your contributions.

Well it appears you are far better suited to viewing color swatches that dealing with the problems in your logic and "critical thinking" skills.    Once more the digital dog SOP.
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chez

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #164 on: November 06, 2020, 11:00:33 am »

So now, cornered, you try and move the goal posts. Why am I not suprised.

More examples of your "critical thinking" skills again Andrew?  Yes. a very different degree of leadership.  China has little to no respect for the rights of its citizens and literally locked then inside their apartments.  The US respects the constitutional rights of its citizens and they are defended by the courts.  Thats not a comparison you can make.

There is no "critical thinking" here Andrew.  Perhaps you might be better served by sticking to the viewing of color swatches.

Ah...but you conveniently forgot to say anything about Canadian handling of the virus...which has the same citizen freedoms as the US...but a much different leadership.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #165 on: November 06, 2020, 11:00:46 am »

An independent election fraud investigation should be relatively easy to implement. It's been done before, why not do it again?

Let a bi-partisan committee arrange for an inquiry and let the various parties produce evidence to prove or disprove their claims in court .

Isn't this the American way?



Oh, wait.  Sorry.  A useless waste of time.  The <insert usual suspects here> will claim the investigation itself was fraudulent and nothing will change.

No the American way to to file lawsuits and take the matter to court. 
« Last Edit: November 06, 2020, 11:04:54 am by Craig Lamson »
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armand

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #166 on: November 06, 2020, 11:01:08 am »

I would have posted this in the humor section but I don't want it deleted.

Paulo Bizarro

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #167 on: November 06, 2020, 11:01:28 am »

He has every right to say anything he wants to say in regards to this election.  This is America.  Last I looked he has not suggested anyone resort to violence.  If I'm wrong I'm sure you can show me why I'm wrong.

He is not in a talk show anymore, he is the POTUS, he should act responsibly at least on this occasion. Making fraud accusations, talking about stealing the election from him, and not providing any evidence, don't you think that attitude may lead to violence in the street from his supporters?

A few weeks ago he said to an extremist group to "be ready". He has been playing out this story for weeks in anticipation of defeat, blaming others has been his constant attitude towards lack of success.

Craig Lamson

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #168 on: November 06, 2020, 11:04:25 am »

Ah...but you conveniently forgot to say anything about Canadian handling of the virus...which has the same citizen freedoms as the US...but a much different leadership.

We have done that..endlessly.  It's not about "leadership" but rather the people and their unwillingness to forsake their freedoms, at least in my opinion. 
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Manoli

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #169 on: November 06, 2020, 11:06:46 am »

Which was a questionable call.  Was Trump lying about having evidence of fraud?  Either that or he is delusional: either—or both—would be consistent with his past behavior.  Were his claims baseless, irresponsible, and incendiary?  Sure, but what else is new?  Could they have emboldened some of his crazier supporters to engage in criminal behavior?  Maybe, but dealing with that is an issue for law enforcement, not journalists.  He is the presidential candidate of one of the two major U.S. political parties and the incumbent president. When he has these televised public meltdowns, the public deserves to be exposed to them.  Hopefully, people will see them for what they are, but the proper role of the news media is to provide context and report factual inaccuracies, not to protect the public from witnessing angry outbursts by their elected officials.

Just to be clear, the clips I saw from some channels didn't simply cut transmission but reduced the Trump address to a window (and not a small one) but the anchors did 'appear' in parallel, in a seperate window, to flag the unstubstantiated and defamatory remarks to their viewers.

It's a fine line. Had they not interjected they could later be accused of furthering and abetting the propaganda. What they did, IMO, was the correct action - they didn't limit the address or deny coverage but flagged the broadcast - as you say to 'provide context and report factual inaccuracies'.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #170 on: November 06, 2020, 11:08:17 am »

He is not in a talk show anymore, he is the POTUS, he should act responsibly at least on this occasion. Making fraud accusations, talking about stealing the election from him, and not providing any evidence, don't you think that attitude may lead to violence in the street from his supporters?

A few weeks ago he said to an extremist group to "be ready". He has been playing out this story for weeks in anticipation of defeat, blaming others has been his constant attitude towards lack of success.

Wait, you said he was inciting violence, now its "may" lead to violence? 
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James Clark

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #171 on: November 06, 2020, 11:14:39 am »

It's not about "leadership" but rather the people and their unwillingness to forsake their freedoms, at least in my opinion.

I think you're correct, sort of,  but I think you're mistaking Canadians' and (Western) Europeans' respect for a differing view of the social contract for a "willingness to forsake their freedoms."   
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #172 on: November 06, 2020, 11:15:42 am »

Interesting.

Just heard a news report on TV that the State of Georgia says it has not seen evidence yet of widespread vote fraud it had found cases of fraud and will begin the investigation. Saying lots of smaller cases do add up.

I've not been able to confirm this on the web.
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Peter McLennan

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #173 on: November 06, 2020, 11:16:44 am »

We have done that..endlessly.  It's not about "leadership" but rather the people and their unwillingness to forsake their freedoms, at least in my opinion.

I’m a Canadian.  Your opinion is wrong.

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Craig Lamson

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #174 on: November 06, 2020, 11:18:52 am »

I think you're correct, sort of,  but I think you're mistaking Canadians' and (Western) Europeans' respect for a differing view of the social contract for a "willingness to forsake their freedoms."

I don't know, we are seeing un uprising in the cases of Europeans protesting to take back their freedoms. :) 

In any case the difference appears to be semantic
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #175 on: November 06, 2020, 11:19:33 am »

I’m a Canadian.  Your opinion is wrong.

I'm an American, your opinion is wrong.
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #176 on: November 06, 2020, 11:24:41 am »

Ah...but you conveniently forgot to say anything about Canadian handling of the virus...which has the same citizen freedoms as the US...but a much different leadership.
Of course he conveniently forgot. Those facts poke massive holes in his non-critical thinking and lack of data when posting. All he's got is insult. It is refreshing that at least some here see through his convenient memory loss or understanding of facts. The unreality bubble is thick with this one. ;)
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chez

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #177 on: November 06, 2020, 11:28:08 am »

We have done that..endlessly.  It's not about "leadership" but rather the people and their unwillingness to forsake their freedoms, at least in my opinion.

Sorry, but you are wrong. People here in Canada are also upset about the lockdowns and processes put in place to fight the virus...but they understand the need because of the consistent message from all levels of leadership including the medical experts. Compare that to the US which message is all over the map with Trump making everything an election issue.

Your view that somehow Americans care more about their freedom than Canadians is a ignorant view as you don't know much about Canadians.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #178 on: November 06, 2020, 11:29:06 am »

Of course he conveniently forgot. Those facts poke massive holes in his non-critical thinking and lack of data when posting. All he's got is insult. It is refreshing that at least some here see through his convenient memory loss or understanding of facts. The unreality bubble is thick with this one. ;)

No Andrew I addresed it at the beginning of my post. You got caught and you attempted to wiggle your way out of it by moving the goalposts.  You added in Canada because your US-China gambit was a failure. Why not just admit it.


Again you mihgt wnt to stick to color charts.

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Chris Kern

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #179 on: November 06, 2020, 11:29:57 am »

Does he have the right to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theatre?

In the United States, speech that creates a "clear and present danger" of illegal action may create criminal or civil liability.

Quote
The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic. It does not even protect a man from an injunction against uttering words that may have all the effect of force. . . .  The question in every case is whether the words used are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils that Congress has a right to prevent. It is a question of proximity and degree.

Schenck v. United States, 1919 (citations omitted)

. . . isn't there a point where it becomes irresponsible to air things that *both* cause harm to to the community AND are wholly without evidence?

Where elected officials or other public figures (e.g., political candidates) are involved, I think the news media should be extremely cautious about deciding not to report what they say—even in situations where their speech may not be constitutionally protected.
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