Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[LesPalenik]

Trump's gone.  Will Biden take responsibility when the economy collapses into an inflationary depression due to all his printing, Democrat spending in Congress, and bad economic policies fostered on us by Treasury Secretary Yellen? Why aren't you blaming the governors who are making the rules in their states? Biden isn't making those rules, nor did Trump.  In my state of New Jersey, it's been Gov Murphy who's made all the rules.  He's responsible, not Biden and not Trump.

We should all buy Bitcoin. Elon Musk (actually Tesla) bought last month $1.5B worth of the cryptocurrency and by now practically doubled that investment. Bitcoin cost is now $60,000, but US residents can buy fractional shares through Robinhood.

[Alan Klein]

That is so preposterous it beggars belief.

Whatabout Cuomo and Newsome. Typical deflection. How come you never whatabout any of the 27 Republican governors who pledged fealty to Trump and did his bidding?

What about the 23 Democrat governors (and most of the biased press) who pledged fealty to the Democrat party?  I said this whole thing became political. On both sides.  So instead of people using reasonable judgment to come up with a sensible plan, our decisions were informed by the political party we were loyal to.  Nothing preposterous with that.  In China, they only have one party and no freedom. So they locked up the sick, took people's freedom away, and were able to deal with it better.  Would you prefer we were like them?

[faberryman]

What about the 23 Democrat governors (and most of the biased press) who pledged fealty to the Democrat party?

Whatabout them?

I said this whole thing became political. On both sides.

That's a meaningless phrase. It doesn't add anything to the discussion. Everything that occurs in the life of a nation is political.

So instead of people using reasonable judgment to come up with a sensible plan, our decisions were informed by the political party we were loyal to.  Nothing preposterous with that.

So all that theory you were peddling about federalism and 50 states doing things 50 different ways so people could learn the best ways to do things was just a load of crap. There were only two ways: Trump's way or the Democratic party's way, neither of which involved any "reasonable judgment to come up with a sensible plan"?

In China, they only have one party and no freedom. So they locked up the sick, took people's freedom away, and were able to deal with it better.  Would you prefer we were like them?

In Tahiti, there are coconut trees. So what?

[jeremyrh]

What about [something or other]

Too boring.

[LesPalenik]

What about the 23 Democrat governors (and most of the biased press) who pledged fealty to the Democrat party?  I said this whole thing became political. On both sides.  So instead of people using reasonable judgment to come up with a sensible plan, our decisions were informed by the political party we were loyal to.  Nothing preposterous with that.  In China, they only have one party and no freedom. So they locked up the sick, took people's freedom away, and were able to deal with it better.  Would you prefer we were like them?

Considering the alternative with over half a million dead in USA, locking up the sick doesn't sound so bad.

[PeterAit]

Sounds like you're trying too hard to convince yourself. As of this morning US Covid deaths have reached 545,000+, wildly outnumbering other countries, a lot of it due to the utter failure of Trump's non-policies. You can play your word games if you like, but people can count.

Some people.

[Robert Roaldi]

...  In China, they only have one party and no freedom. So they locked up the sick, took people's freedom away, and were able to deal with it better.  Would you prefer we were like them?

You mean the way nuclear test fallout fell all over the US without anyone being warned or even told.

[Alan Klein]

You mean the way nuclear test fallout fell all over the US without anyone being warned or even told.

Whataboutism.

[Robert Roaldi]

Whataboutism.

You are correct. But when you say "Would you prefer we were like them?", you're inviting comparisons.

History may very well end up judging that taking temporary draconian action at a time when they didn't know the virus's lethality might have been the more prudent choice. And when you use loaded phrases like "... took people's freedoms away ...", well, you're stacking the deck big time.

[Alan Klein]

You are correct. But when you say "Would you prefer we were like them?", you're inviting comparisons.

History may very well end up judging that taking temporary draconian action at a time when they didn't know the virus's lethality might have been the more prudent choice. And when you use loaded phrases like "... took people's freedoms away ...", well, you're stacking the deck big time.

Well, of course, hindsight is 20/20.  But you can't expect Western nations to act like China nor China to act like western nations.  How we respond is affected by our laws, customs, history, and culture.  And those can vary even within a country, especially one so diverse as America, an immigrant nation.  That's very unlike China, Japan, Italy, and most other nations that have a "common" people.   

[faberryman]

Well, of course, hindsight is 20/20.  But you can't expect Western nations to act like China nor China to act like western nations.  How we respond is affected by our laws, customs, and culture.  And those can vary even within a country, especially one so diverse as America, an immigrant nation.  That's very unlike China, Japan, Italy, and most other nations that have a "common" people.

Facepalm emoji.

So because of our laws, customs and culture, and above all our diversity, being an immigrant nation and all:

I said this whole thing became political. On both sides.  So instead of people using reasonable judgment to come up with a sensible plan, our decisions were informed by the political party we were loyal to.

[Alan Klein]

Facepalm emoji.

So because of our laws, customs and culture, and above all our diversity, being an immigrant nation and all:

I don't understand your point.  Politics is part of who we are - our traditions, culture, etc.   The Chinese have never experienced real political freedom as far as I know.  First, they had Emperors, now the dictatorial Communist party.  So kowtowing is one of their traditions.  It's not ours.   We were born in revolt. 

[faberryman]

I don't understand your point.  Politics is part of who we are - our traditions, culture, etc.   The Chinese have never experienced real political freedom as far as I know.  First, they had Emperors, now the dictatorial Communist party.  So kowtowing is one of their traditions.  It's not ours.   We were born in revolt.

Facepalm emoji again.

[Alan Klein]

Facepalm emoji again.

If you disagree with my point, fine.  So why do you think China can lock up its sick citizens without consequence and many Americans and other westerners won't comply with the mask rules and are protesting for losing their businesses?

[Alan Klein]

ELM - English Lives Matter.  They ought to defund the bobbies.

London police chief faces calls to resign after officers smash vigil to murdered Sarah Everard
https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/14/uk/sarah-everard-vigil-police-response-gbr-intl/index.html

[jeremyrh]

ELM - English Lives Matter.  They ought to defund the bobbies.

London police chief faces calls to resign after officers smash vigil to murdered Sarah Everard
https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/14/uk/sarah-everard-vigil-police-response-gbr-intl/index.html

The police chief should definitely resign - this was a peaceful vigil to remember a woman kidnapped and killed by an off-duty police officer. The police refused to engage with the organisers to find a safe, legal way to hold it, and instead waded in heavy-handed and arresting people.

Some good points made in that article that are missing from the coverage by our North Korea-style BBC:

UK Home Secretary Priti Patel said that "some" of the footage that was circulating online was "upsetting" and said she had asked the Met for a "full report on what happened."

And while Patel has said the government will always "defend the right to protest," her actions suggest otherwise.
Critics of the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill 2021, which was introduced by Patel last week, say that the new law is intent on squashing the peaceful right to protest.

We will soon have about the same right to protest as they do in Hong Kong or Belarus.

[Alan Klein]

The police chief should definitely resign - this was a peaceful vigil to remember a woman kidnapped and killed by an off-duty police officer. The police refused to engage with the organisers to find a safe, legal way to hold it, and instead waded in heavy-handed and arresting people.

At least the English don't burn down neighborhood stores.

[digitaldog]

At least the English don't burn down neighborhood stores.

Again; Alan Klein, often wrong but never in doubt, making simplistic generalizations, never checking the facts :
https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/14440793
UK riots: Buildings set on fire and shops looted over weekend

[jeremyrh]

Again; Alan Klein, often wrong but never in doubt, making simplistic generalizations, never checking the facts :
https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/14440793
UK riots: Buildings set on fire and shops looted over weekend

However, it has been a while since we invaded the seat of government and tried to kill the legislators.  That may or may not be a good thing, depending on your perspective.

[Chris Kern]

However, it has been a while since we invaded the seat of government and tried to kill the legislators.

The Gunpowder Plotters were the Proud Boys of their era.