Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[digitaldog]

Why did Trump and the wife get vaccinated against Covid-19 in January and not tell us?

[LesPalenik]

Why did Trump and the wife get vaccinated against Covid-19 in January and not tell us?

I bet there are quite a few other things they didn't tell us about.

[jeremyrh]

Why did Trump and the wife get vaccinated against Covid-19 in January and not tell us?

Pure "hypocracy" :-)

[Alan Klein]

Pure "hypocracy" :-)

It was so many Democrats who said they wouldn't vaccinate with "Trump's" vaccine, yet they did.  Including Biden and his wife.  That's hypocrisy.  Why would Trump not want to take advantage of Operation War Speed?  He's the one bragging about it how it's coming out by the end of the year, etc.

[Alan Klein]

Current death toll is 527,000 with about 1,250 new deaths per day. Assuming a gradual slowdown to an average count of 1,000/day and loosening of the restrictions, the total death count by end of May will exceed 600,000 and reach 650,000 by early fall. Hopefully, the majority of population will be vaccinated by then and we won't see the third wave. 

The TV news was reporting last night that some areas of the US have reached herd immunity.  Interestingly, yesterday was one year that the first covid patient was found in the US in NYC, which accounts for why NYC got hit so bad and early, from the tourist trade, I would think.  Meanwhile, around 7-800K New Yorkers have had COvid, that's about 10%.  I wonder what the real number is as so many get it who don't know it or it's just not reported.   I don't think there'll be a third wave.  Cases are dropping substantially.  What with the vaccine, the most that may happen is infections will just peter off for some time. 

[LesPalenik]

It was so many Democrats who said they wouldn't vaccinate with "Trump's" vaccine, yet they did.  Including Biden and his wife.  That's hypocrisy.  Why would Trump not want to take advantage of Operation War Speed?  He's the one bragging about it how it's coming out by the end of the year, etc.

I wasn't aware that any Democrats said so. Which ones?
On contrary. the opposite is true, it was mainly the Republicans who didn't want to get vaccinated.

According to Gallup, just 49 percent of Republicans say they’d get a vaccine when it’s approved. (Democrats are more confident, at 69 percent, with their their confidence on the upswing.) Which means there’s a chance for Trump to do some actual good in his final days in office and after he leaves by continuing to trumpet his contribution to the vaccine process, thereby inspiring some of his Republican followers to take the vaccine.

Trump owns a lot of the blame for much of the Covid-19 vaccine hesitancy for many reasons: for instance, his constant attacks on scientists and his insinuations that the career officials at the Food and Drug Administration played politics with the vaccine approval.

https://www.vox.com/coronavirus-covid19/21549073/covid-19-vaccine-trump

Furthermore, in mid December ABC reported that Trump wasn't rushing with the vaccination because he still had some antibodies in his blood. Now we find out that that was a pure disinformation. The truth was revealed only on March 1st.

President Donald Trump wasn't expected to join Vice President Mike Pence and President-elect Joe Biden in the coming days when they get vaccinated for COVID-19, a decision that could be tied to the recommendation to wait 90 days after he received a certain treatment during his COVID-19 illness -- but also one that hasn’t been fully explained to the public.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-absent-biden-pence-plan-vaccinated/story?id=74779221

[LesPalenik]

The TV news was reporting last night that some areas of the US have reached herd immunity.  Interestingly, yesterday was one year that the first covid patient was found in the US in NYC, which accounts for why NYC got hit so bad and early, from the tourist trade, I would think.  Meanwhile, around 7-800K New Yorkers have had COvid, that's about 10%.  I wonder what the real number is as so many get it who don't know it or it's just not reported.   I don't think there'll be a third wave.  Cases are dropping substantially.  What with the vaccine, the most that may happen is infections will just peter off for some time.

Maybe in Russian TV news. CNN reported a few days ago that US is nowhere close herd immunity.
You brought up this point at least a dozen of times. As it was explained many times to you, it is a pure fallacy. Even Sweden failed miserably in promoting the herd immunity theory.

The U.S. is “nowhere close” to achieving herd immunity from Covid, a CDC scientist said Friday.
The proliferation of new, more contagious virus strains requires a higher proportion of the population to get vaccinated.
The outbreak could get worse as immunity decreases over time among vaccinated individuals or those who have recovered from Covid.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/26/cdc-scientist-says-the-us-is-nowhere-close-to-herd-immunity.html

[Alan Klein]

I wasn't aware that any Democrats said so. Which ones?
On contrary. the opposite is true, it was mainly the Republicans who didn't want to get vaccinated.

https://www.vox.com/coronavirus-covid19/21549073/covid-19-vaccine-trump

Furthermore, in mid December ABC reported that Trump wasn't rushing with the vaccination because he still had some antibodies in his blood. Now we find out that that was a pure disinformation. The truth was revealed only on March 1st.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-absent-biden-pence-plan-vaccinated/story?id=74779221

Many Democrats were implying that Trump would push the vaccines through for approval just to make an early release date.  But they would not be effective or safe to take, a la drinking antiseptics.  They were just knocking the Warp Speed program because of the upcoming election at the time.  So they would refuse to take the vaccine.  Of course, once it came out, Biden was one of the first on the line to get it for him and his wife, as are all the other Democrats who knocked "Trump's vaccine".   

The Dec 17th article you linked to said: ""I am not scheduled to take the vaccine," Trump tweeted, "but look forward to doing so at the appropriate time."

What was the pure disinformation you were referring to?

I don't know anyone personally who is refusing to take the vaccine.  Everyone seems to really excited about getting it and struggling to find a spot in line.  One of the most noted anti-vaccination Americans however, is Robert Kennedy, Jr., a democrat.  He was barred from Instagram for spreading "false" anti-vaccination information. As an aside, I disagree that anyone should have the account shut down for their beliefs, whether you or I or Instagram (owned by Facebook), don't like their views.
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/02/11/966902737/instagram-bars-robert-f-kennedy-jr-for-spreading-vaccine-misinformation

[Alan Klein]

Maybe in Russian TV news. CNN reported a few days ago that US is nowhere close herd immunity.
You brought up this point at least a dozen of times. As it was explained very time to you, it is a pure fallacy. Even Sweden failed miserably in promoting the herd immunity theory.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/26/cdc-scientist-says-the-us-is-nowhere-close-to-herd-immunity.html

I said that I heard this on a local NYC TV news program last night, either CBS or NBC, not exactly conservative media.  If they're wrong, argue with them. But you can't claim your "facts" are any more right than me as we both get them from the media.  So which media is right?  It's like getting doctor opinions.    In any case, many of these people who say we can't make herd immunity are the same people who said we'd never have a vaccine by the end of Dec 2020.  They predicted two years and maybe this spring if we're lucky.  Meanwhile, over 70 million Americans are vaccinated already and it's still only February.   Were you one of those who made a bad prediction about the release of the vaccine?

[LesPalenik]

The Dec 17th article you linked to said: ""I am not scheduled to take the vaccine," Trump tweeted, "but look forward to doing so at the appropriate time."

What was the pure disinformation you were referring to?

Apparently, Trump got his shots in January before leaving Whitehouse. He reported it only on March 1st.

[LesPalenik]

I said that I heard this on a local NYC TV news program last night, either CBS or NBC, not exactly conservative media.  If they're wrong, argue with them. But you can't claim your "facts" are any more right than me as we both get them from the media.  So which media is right?  It's like getting doctor opinions.    In any case, many of these people who say we can't make herd immunity are the same people who said we'd never have a vaccine by the end of Dec 2020.  They predicted two years and maybe this spring if we're lucky.  Meanwhile, over 70 million Americans are vaccinated already and it's still only February.   Were you one of those who made a bad prediction about the release of the vaccine?

Alan, I never made any predictions about the release of the vaccine, but I corrected you at least 5 times about the fallacy of the herd immunity.

[Robert Roaldi]

I'd like to see a Venn diagram showing the number of people who thought Covid was a hoax and those who complain about how slow the vaccine deployment is. The intersection would be a fascinating group of people to talk to.

Along similar lines, I know several people, who although not anti-vaxxers still refused to get flu shots over the last decades for reasons that confuse me, that are now clamouring for the Covid vaccine.

[Alan Klein]

I think President Biden is happy that it worked out this way despite what he said during the campaign.  Staying friends with the Saudis and keeping sanctions on Iran are in America's and the world's interest.

How Biden’s best-laid plans for Iran and Saudi Arabia failed in his first month
President Biden hasn’t handled Iran and Saudi Arabia like candidate Biden planned.[/i]
https://www.vox.com/22307196/joe-biden-saudi-arabia-mbs-iran-deal

[Alan Klein]

Apparently, Trump got his shots in January before leaving Whitehouse. He reported it only on March 1st.

He was busy organizing an insurrection. 

[Robert Roaldi]

I think President Biden is happy that it worked out this way despite what he said during the campaign.  Staying friends with the Saudis and keeping sanctions on Iran are in America's and the world's interest.

That's understandable. MBS probably has a lot in common with the old Shah in Iran.

[LesPalenik]

I'd like to see a Venn diagram showing the number of people who thought Covid was a hoax and those who complain about how slow the vaccine deployment is. The intersection would be a fascinating group of people to talk to.

Along similar lines, I know several people, who although not anti-vaxxers still refused to get flu shots over the last decades for reasons that confuse me, that are now clamouring for the Covid vaccine.

Could be because Covid is more lethal than flu and also because covid vaccine is more effective than the flu vaccines.

[LesPalenik]

The good news is that the US manufacturing is roaring back. Must be due to Tesla and Apple.

The U.S. economic recovery continues to be led by manufacturing. On Monday, IHS Markit and the Institute for Supply Management both released manufacturing activity data for February, with these reports showing the sector growing at the fastest pace in several years.

The ISM's manufacturing PMI registered a reading of 60.8, the highest reading in three years and the fastest since the pandemic recovery began. IHS Markit's reading came in at 58.6, the second-best reading for this index in the last 11 years; only January's reading was better. Readings over 50 for either index indicate expansion within the sector while readings below 50 indicate contraction.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/american-manufacturing-roar-back-morning-brief-110228696.html

[Alan Klein]

Alan, I never made any predictions about the release of the vaccine, but I corrected you at least 5 times about the fallacy of the herd immunity.

There seems to be some positive signs that herd immunity could be reached.  Some experts, maybe a minority,  have come around to that based on the huge numbers of people who have already gotten Covid naturally.  Then add in the vaccinations.  Even if it doesn't wipe it out totally,  the number of those still getting the infection could be so low that we could get on with life a lot easier.  Also, herd immunity can be limited to smaller geographic areas, not necessarily a whole country. 

I think there's a lot of debate, but no one really knows for sure.  The arguments seem to fall along political lines like when the vaccine would be developed.  Zika had a herd immunity of around 65%.  IF Covid is the same, then we're actually pretty close, maybe another few months.  Let's be hopeful. 

[Alan Klein]

I'd like to see a Venn diagram showing the number of people who thought Covid was a hoax and those who complain about how slow the vaccine deployment is. The intersection would be a fascinating group of people to talk to.

Along similar lines, I know several people, who although not anti-vaxxers still refused to get flu shots over the last decades for reasons that confuse me, that are now clamouring for the Covid vaccine.

There's been speculation across the board about everything regarding Covid. I said early on that until the whole thing is over, and the fat lady sings, and we can review everything that transpired, we really can't know all the details of what happened or what could happen.  "Experts" have been wrong about many Covid things as have politicians, and lay people.  It's like the stock market, gold and bit coin. 

[Alan Klein]

That's understandable. MBS probably has a lot in common with the old Shah in Iran.

Well, frankly, I wish we weren't there so much.  That's one of the reasons why I think our domestic anti-fossil fuel campaign is hurting us.  By becoming more reliant on Middle East oil again, we have to protect it and the shipping lanes.  That puts us smack back in the middle of the whole mess.  Maybe we should just let the Saudis and Iranians work it out among themselves, and others living there as well.  Otherwise, we just wind up getting drawn back into their petty regional squabbles of King of the Mountain.  Who needs it?