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Author Topic: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa  (Read 318101 times)

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14380 on: June 23, 2022, 12:23:22 pm »

If you get Apple News or The Wall Street Journal, this article is an interesting read:
https://apple.news/AVKj3Qx50Qeyq0fGqcT4z8Q

They don't call it the bleeding edge for nothing. :)
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LesPalenik

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14381 on: June 23, 2022, 01:27:21 pm »

If you get Apple News or The Wall Street Journal, this article is an interesting read:
https://apple.news/AVKj3Qx50Qeyq0fGqcT4z8Q

That report was poo-pood in several youtube videos and other articles/forum posts questioning journalist's driving and charging expertise.
I wonder if the problem is common with all Kia EV6s or if that particular car/battery was a lemon. Also the author didn't disclose his weight and the total load, including the entire crew and weight of their cargo). The driving style and excessive load can considerably affect the driving range.
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14382 on: June 23, 2022, 01:35:03 pm »

That report was poo-pood in several youtube videos and other articles/forum posts questioning journalist's driving and charging expertise.
I wonder if the problem is common with all Kia EV6s or if that particular car/battery was a lemon. Also the author didn't disclose his weight and the total load, including the entire crew and weight of their cargo). The driving style and excessive load can considerably affect the driving range.
Agreed, it did have some aspects of sour grapes. But not totally without merits.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14383 on: June 23, 2022, 01:37:42 pm »

That report was poo-pood in several youtube videos and other articles/forum posts questioning journalist's driving and charging expertise.
I wonder if the problem is common with all Kia EV6s or if that particular car/battery was a lemon. Also the author didn't disclose his weight and the total load, including the entire crew and weight of their cargo). The driving style and excessive load can considerably affect the driving range.

Fair enough, but I bet screwed up trips with no good plans or forethought are more normal than not.  :)

I watched a video a year or two ago about the problems this one reviewer had trying to get a charger to work. It didn't seem as simple as putting your credit card into a machine and pressing a button, the way it is with gasoline. At the time they needed a cell phone with data plan and a subscription to something or other. I hope that was just an example of teething problems. We're supposed to be living in a service-oriented culture, all these things should be easy not difficult.


I was wondering something. If your car is plugged in at a charger, can someone unplug your car and transfer the plug over to theirs and charge up on your dime?


Also, I wondered if in time we'll see home chargers be rented out to travellers à la Air BnB? "Air Charge" or something?
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14384 on: June 23, 2022, 02:15:32 pm »

Fair enough, but I bet screwed up trips with no good plans or forethought are more normal than not.  :)

I watched a video a year or two ago about the problems this one reviewer had trying to get a charger to work. It didn't seem as simple as putting your credit card into a machine and pressing a button, the way it is with gasoline. At the time they needed a cell phone with data plan and a subscription to something or other. I hope that was just an example of teething problems. We're supposed to be living in a service-oriented culture, all these things should be easy not difficult.


I was wondering something. If your car is plugged in at a charger, can someone unplug your car and transfer the plug over to theirs and charge up on your dime?


Also, I wondered if in time we'll see home chargers be rented out to travellers à la Air BnB? "Air Charge" or something?
Charging is not ready for prime time.  I saw similar YouTube videos recently.  Issues with different charger connection cables and defective charging stations were common.  Then you had to wait if someone was using the one in front of you.  Many stations are slow charging unlike the Tesla quick charges slowing down the charging process considerably. The biggest issue is not enough charging stations spread around especially if you don't follow main routes like many photographers wouldn't in the countryside.  What do you do if your battery dies?  It costs a fortune to tow. 

Right now, charging a second car at home seems the best for people wanting an EV.  Use it to get around town but use the second gas-fired car for trips, bigger loads, family outings, etc.

I saw a Ted presentation recently that indicated that you have to run an EV for tens of thousands of miles until you can offset the CO2 used to build the battery with the savings of CO2 using electric to run the car.  The bigger the battery to extend range, the worse it gets.

A better option from that standpoint seems to be hybrid cars combining gas and electic as they have much smaller batteries. Even though you're burning some gas, the overall approach is better from a CO2 production basis when including the CO2 created during the initial manufacturing   

LesPalenik

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14385 on: June 23, 2022, 02:34:32 pm »

At this time, the best and most reliable charging (in North America, Europe, Australia and some Asian countries) is provided by the Tesla Superchargers. Quite a few American Tesla owners documented their drives across USA and some Europeans drove from southern Europe to northern parts of Norway and Finland.

Jesse and Zack from "Now You Know" youtube channel recently compared their few hundred miles drive to Cape Code in Rivian truck to their Tesla S trip from East Coast to West Coast and back six or eight years ago. Their previous travel experience with Tesla S was much better than the Rivian charging experience last month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n4_8_ppb5I
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14386 on: June 23, 2022, 02:37:26 pm »

At this time, the best and most reliable charging (in North America, Europe, Australia and some Asian countries) is provided by the Tesla Superchargers. Quite a few American Tesla owners documented their drives across USA and some Europeans drove from southern Europe to northern parts of Norway and Finland.

Jesse and Zack from "Now You Know" youtube channel recently compared their few hundred miles drive to Cape Code in Rivian truck to their Tesla S trip from East Coast to West Coast and back six or eight years ago. Their previous travel experience with Tesla S was much better than the Rivian charging experience last month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n4_8_ppb5I
What if you don't want a Tesla?

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14387 on: June 23, 2022, 02:38:29 pm »

Isn't the US government going to build thousands of charging stations across the US as part of the infrastructure bill?  If so, what kind will they build?

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14388 on: June 23, 2022, 02:54:18 pm »

We got an electric car aout 8 months ago that is used for 95% of our driving. We charge at home. I have calculated that our fuel costs are equivalent to gasoline at $0.72 per gallon. And in terms of climate change gas emissions, it is the equivalent of a gas car that gets 93 miles/gallon. And to frost the cake, it is a really terrific car!
Have you included the extra cost for the EV battery in your calculations?   For example, let's say it cost $5000 more to build an EV over a gas-fired auto because of the battery.  All other features such as paint quality, tire quality, safety features, speaker systems, etc are equivalent.  So you keep the car for  three years and sell it for 60% of what you paid initially for the car.  That means you got back $3000 for the extra original cost leaving $2000 at a loss for the extra EV battery.  That $2000 loss divided by three years is around $667 per year that has to be added to the electric costs for the mileage.

Also, batteries use a lot of CO2 to manufacture.  That also has to be added into your use of CO2 when calculating.



 

digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14389 on: June 23, 2022, 02:56:09 pm »

Isn't the US government going to build thousands of charging stations across the US as part of the infrastructure bill?  If so, what kind will they build?
Alan's inability to find simple answers to his questions (another diversion tactic) is amazing!

https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/public-and-social-sector/our-insights/building-the-electric-vehicle-charging-infrastructure-america-needs
Quote
In response, the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law (BIL) provides $7.5 billion to develop the country’s EV-charging infrastructure. The goal is to install 500,000 public chargers—publicly accessible charging stations compatible with all vehicles and technologies—nationwide by 2030.

Alan has this odd repetitive habit of asking questions of others, when his posting history and agenda show/prove, he has no desire or ability to accept any answer. No need to ask.

What if you don't want a Tesla?
What if you don't have a clue?
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LesPalenik

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14390 on: June 23, 2022, 03:50:45 pm »

What if you don't want a Tesla?

It's a free country. You don't have to buy a Tesla.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14391 on: June 23, 2022, 03:54:20 pm »

Isn't the US government going to build thousands of charging stations across the US as part of the infrastructure bill?  If so, what kind will they build?

I doubt that the US government wants to get into battery charging business. However, they may provide incentives to third party charging companies.
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PeterAit

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14392 on: June 23, 2022, 04:09:51 pm »

EV is next on the list. First, we're more than doubling our solar generation from 3.8kwz and hopefully, the panels will get installed in the next few months. Got 220 in the garage so we're all set for the EV. The trick is finding something big enough for road trips with the three dogs and hopefully, a range of 300 miles, more or less. The IONIQ 5 is looking good thus far.

Check out the Volkdwagen ID4. That's what we have. Not at 300 miles range, more like 250, but a great car. In demand and in short supply, so order now and cancel later if necessary.
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Peter

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LesPalenik

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14393 on: June 23, 2022, 04:11:45 pm »

Have you included the extra cost for the EV battery in your calculations?   For example, let's say it cost $5000 more to build an EV over a gas-fired auto because of the battery.  All other features such as paint quality, tire quality, safety features, speaker systems, etc are equivalent.  So you keep the car for  three years and sell it for 60% of what you paid initially for the car.  That means you got back $3000 for the extra original cost leaving $2000 at a loss for the extra EV battery.  That $2000 loss divided by three years is around $667 per year that has to be added to the electric costs for the mileage.

Also, batteries use a lot of CO2 to manufacture.  That also has to be added into your use of CO2 when calculating.

It depends mainly how much you drive and how you charge. Besides, there are other considerationa as why to switch to an EV.
A number of EV owners provided their personal reports that they broke even after 2-4 years and then started to realize annual savings. The maintenance costs for EVs are also lower and so is the depreciation. Actually, if you bought any Tesla car in the last 2-3 years, you could sell it today for more than what you paid for.

Personally, I drive an older gasoline propelled Camry with a relatively low mileage and I'm not driving now much, so driving it for a few more years will be cheaper than buying a new EV. I have a reservation for Tesla Cybertruck. The truck was announced in 2019, I put in an order in Jan 21, they will start making them in mid 2023, and I may get it in 2025. By then the Camry will be ripe for a replacement.
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PeterAit

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14394 on: June 23, 2022, 04:13:07 pm »

What if you don't want a Tesla?

Tesla chargers are available to other EV owners. You need a cable adapter, couple hundred bucks.
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Peter

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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14395 on: June 23, 2022, 04:18:13 pm »

I doubt that the US government wants to get into battery charging business. However, they may provide incentives to third party charging companies.
If it's up to Biden, he won't build any Tesla types. Ford and GM only.  ;)

Curious.  For real owners of EV's, not the claims in the media, how does the range compare in the winter when you have the heat turned on?  Do you use it to heat the seats?

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14396 on: June 23, 2022, 04:22:52 pm »

Tesla chargers are available to other EV owners. You need a cable adapter, couple hundred bucks.
Is there a fee?  I don't understand why no one but Tesla builds fast chargers? 

I think states and federal governments should charge EV owners a tax for use of the highways since they don't pay tax for it by not needing to buy gasoline.  Gasoline taxes pay for the upkeep of the roads. 

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14397 on: June 23, 2022, 04:36:32 pm »

Have you included the extra cost for the EV battery in your calculations?   For example, let's say it cost $5000 more to build an EV over a gas-fired auto because of the battery.  All other features such as paint quality, tire quality, safety features, speaker systems, etc are equivalent.  So you keep the car for  three years and sell it for 60% of what you paid initially for the car.  That means you got back $3000 for the extra original cost leaving $2000 at a loss for the extra EV battery.  That $2000 loss divided by three years is around $667 per year that has to be added to the electric costs for the mileage.

Also, batteries use a lot of CO2 to manufacture.  That also has to be added into your use of CO2 when calculating.

Where do you get these numbers? You just make them up, right? In other words, they are useless.

Sure, battery production generates (not "uses")  CO2. But so does mining iron, smelting it into steel, and casting/machining all the parts for an engine and transmission. And tailpipe emissions are not the only issue with ICE cars (internal combustion engines). Drilling, extracting, refining, and transporting fossil fuels generate scads of CO2. Do you know the numbers for these? I sure don't.



 
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Peter

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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14398 on: June 23, 2022, 04:50:50 pm »

OK.  I found the Ted Talk that compares the CO2 production between EV, ICE, and hybrids.  He presents the issue that EVs have huge CO2 quantities during manufacturing which makes Ev's way less appealing today than most people believe. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1E8SQde5rk

digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14399 on: June 23, 2022, 04:53:52 pm »

Is there a fee?  I don't understand why no one but Tesla builds fast chargers? 
Try Google. You'll find it hard to argue with the information you find, unlike those of us here who provide you with facts you ignore or don't understand.
If it's up to Biden, he won't build any Tesla types. Ford and GM only.  ;)
More assumptions without any data,ignorant prejudices to base them upon. Tiring but so consistent!
He presents the issue that EVs have huge CO2 quantities during manufacturing which makes Ev's way less appealing today than most people believe. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1E8SQde5rk
Ah yes, "most people" ...
Isn't it enough you speak so poorly of your beliefs? No need to again speak for others. Tiring but so consistent!
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