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Author Topic: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa  (Read 318102 times)

LesPalenik

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14400 on: June 23, 2022, 05:35:59 pm »

OK.  I found the Ted Talk that compares the CO2 production between EV, ICE, and hybrids.  He presents the issue that EVs have huge CO2 quantities during manufacturing which makes Ev's way less appealing today than most people believe. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1E8SQde5rk

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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14401 on: June 23, 2022, 10:25:04 pm »

OK.  I found the Ted Talk that compares the CO2 production between EV, ICE, and hybrids.  He presents the issue that EVs have huge CO2 quantities during manufacturing which makes Ev's way less appealing today than most people believe. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1E8SQde5rk

I think it's more accurate to say that that the amount of CO2 produced from cradle to grave depends A LOT on the method used to generate electricity. This changes from place to place and from time to time but I suspect the long-term trend is to use more renewable methods.

There's no getting around the fact the ICEs are inefficient, producing lots of waste heat. The usual number is that only about 30%-35%, at best, of the energy content of the petrol is turned into mechanical motion. Although some of that heat is put to use in cold climates by heating up the inside of the car. Also, ICEs are notoriously inefficient while accelerating and decelerating, which pretty much defines urban driving. Electric motors are highly efficient, high 90s%, at all rpm. So even if all the petrol used in cars was transferred to run electrical plants, we might still be better off because efficiencies of scale can be had in those systems that cannot be mimicked in individual car motors.

People are only emotionally invested in combustion engines because we happened to have been alive during the time that that technology flourished. In the grand scheme of things that's an unimportant meaningless coincidence.

Efficiencies of usage are always related to increased profits. Waste is no good for anyone. There may be costs related to make the transition but we've incurred those costs every time we've switched from one mode to another throughout history. Nothing new about that. And as always, it's pointless to worry about the cost of transition unless you also take into account the cost of not making the transition. What's the point of doind cost vs benefits analyses unless you take into account ALL the costs and benefits? I don't understand why it's necessary to keep pointing this out to people who think of themselves as fiscally conservative. Isn't that on page 3 of the manual?
 
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Jonathan Cross

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14402 on: June 24, 2022, 03:43:28 am »

The point about battery production being energy wasteful is an old one.  The times they are a'changing though. 

We have an EV (not a TESLA).  One of  the reasons is that we want to cut down the amount of pollution we produce as we drive around.  We certainly do that. There are increasing efforts in recycling lithium and in battery production using other materials.  No doubt it will become more efficient.  Our EV has fewer moving parts than an ICE, including no gearbox nor exhaust.  We use the brakes far less as engine braking is used far more.  I use the brakes far less when approaching a junction as the Sat Nav knows where I am.  The car has a heat pump to convert heat from the engine and brakes back into electricity.   

Our electricity provider has a tariff for electric cars, which is cheaper for 5 hours at night.  They generate more than enough electricity by renewable means to supply all the power for people on that tariff.  We have a gas field near us and there is a plan to have an on-site process to convert the gas to hydrogen.  The process also generates CO2, but part on the plan involves carbon capture to deal with the CO2.

Re charging, we have 3  150KW non TESLA chargers behind a supermarket near us.  On a trip to Devon recently we charged at the Exeter services where there are 12 350KW chargers.  After 3 hours driving we needed a break, and it took only 25 minutes, just enough time to have a coffee, a Danish pastry and a visit to the loo!

The times they are a'changing.

Jonathan
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14403 on: June 24, 2022, 04:25:33 am »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4d4S7kHzjw

Good summary by a Republican about what Trump did to steal an election based on testimonies under oath.

100% clear, not the least doubt.

Cheers,
Bernard

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14404 on: June 24, 2022, 08:15:57 am »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4d4S7kHzjw

Good summary by a Republican about what Trump did to steal an election based on testimonies under oath.

100% clear, not the least doubt.

Cheers,
Bernard

Only the prosecution, the Democrats, has presented its case. The Democrats are also jury and judge.  Not the usual way we do trials in America.

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14405 on: June 24, 2022, 08:21:55 am »

The point about battery production being energy wasteful is an old one.  The times they are a'changing though. 

We have an EV (not a TESLA).  One of  the reasons is that we want to cut down the amount of pollution we produce as we drive around.  We certainly do that. There are increasing efforts in recycling lithium and in battery production using other materials.  No doubt it will become more efficient.  Our EV has fewer moving parts than an ICE, including no gearbox nor exhaust.  We use the brakes far less as engine braking is used far more.  I use the brakes far less when approaching a junction as the Sat Nav knows where I am.  The car has a heat pump to convert heat from the engine and brakes back into electricity.   

Our electricity provider has a tariff for electric cars, which is cheaper for 5 hours at night.  They generate more than enough electricity by renewable means to supply all the power for people on that tariff.  We have a gas field near us and there is a plan to have an on-site process to convert the gas to hydrogen.  The process also generates CO2, but part on the plan involves carbon capture to deal with the CO2.

Re charging, we have 3  150KW non TESLA chargers behind a supermarket near us.  On a trip to Devon recently we charged at the Exeter services where there are 12 350KW chargers.  After 3 hours driving we needed a break, and it took only 25 minutes, just enough time to have a coffee, a Danish pastry and a visit to the loo!

The times they are a'changing.

Jonathan

Times may be changing, but they haven't yet.  Most of the terrible problems with EV batteries have been hushed up to keep the public uninformed so they support EV's.  I hope better, more efficient, and less polluting batteries are developed.  Until then, the public should be informed about the issues that make current EV's less desirable environmentally than they're presented as. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14406 on: June 24, 2022, 08:24:54 am »

I'm curious if anyone here owns and drives both ICE and EVs?  When you switch from one to the other, does the way the cars drive, gear change, accelerate, and brake cause confusion or constant adaptation?

digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14407 on: June 24, 2022, 08:51:57 am »

I'm curious if anyone here owns and drives both ICE and EVs?  When you switch from one to the other, does the way the cars drive, gear change, accelerate, and brake cause confusion or constant adaptation?
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14408 on: June 24, 2022, 09:02:51 am »

Times may be changing, but they haven't yet.  Most of the terrible problems with EV batteries have been hushed up to keep the public uninformed so they support EV's.  I hope better, more efficient, and less polluting batteries are developed.  Until then, the public should be informed about the issues that make current EV's less desirable environmentally than they're presented as.
This from a fellow who uses no batteries. Add environmentalist to his list of expertise 😭
"Cheats and hypocrites are those who do everything with words and do nothing with actions".—  Democritus
« Last Edit: June 24, 2022, 09:06:02 am by digitaldog »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14409 on: June 24, 2022, 09:17:57 am »

Only the prosecution, the Democrats, has presented its case. The Democrats are also jury and judge.  Not the usual way we do trials in America.

There are Republicans in the committee, there would be more if they hadn’t refused to participate.

They refused to participate only to be able to question the bypartisan nature of the committee.

Because they know full well that Trump did everything he is accused of.

Regards,
Bernard

LesPalenik

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14410 on: June 24, 2022, 09:20:46 am »

I'm curious if anyone here owns and drives both ICE and EVs?  When you switch from one to the other, does the way the cars drive, gear change, accelerate, and brake cause confusion or constant adaptation?

John Gibbs from "Dr. Knows It All" youtube channel has Tesla Model Y and Mazda SUV and drives both cars. He prefers Model Y. In this video, he drives the Mazda and talks about both cars:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d74widXWM9g

 
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14411 on: June 24, 2022, 10:57:36 am »

Only the prosecution, the Democrats, has presented its case. The Democrats are also jury and judge.  Not the usual way we do trials in America.

How about trying to bully people into ignoring votes to hang onto power, is that how you do things in America?

Don't answer, that was rhetorical. At this point, defence of Trumpistan lies purely in the realm of mental illness.
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14412 on: June 24, 2022, 11:11:58 am »

There are Republicans in the committee, there would be more if they hadn’t refused to participate.

They refused to participate only to be able to question the bypartisan nature of the committee.

Because they know full well that Trump did everything he is accused of.
And then many asked him for pardons.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14413 on: June 24, 2022, 11:54:56 am »

There are Republicans in the committee, there would be more if they hadn’t refused to participate.

They refused to participate only to be able to question the bypartisan nature of the committee.

Because they know full well that Trump did everything he is accused of.

Regards,
Bernard
Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger are the only Republicans on the committee. Both have previously voted to impeach Trump because he tried to destroy them politically.  So now they're returning the favor and are trying to destroy him.

The committee is run by Democrats who will not call defense witnesses to support the other side nor is there any effective cross-examination of the witnesses picked deliberately who make Trump look bad.   

The whole thing is a show trial by democrats to help them in the midterm elections.

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14414 on: June 24, 2022, 11:59:20 am »

How about trying to bully people into ignoring votes to hang onto power, is that how you do things in America?

Don't answer, that was rhetorical. At this point, defence of Trumpistan lies purely in the realm of mental illness.
That's funny. I thought TDS Trump Delirium Syndrome was a mental illness.

digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14415 on: June 24, 2022, 12:03:52 pm »

There are Republicans in the committee, there would be more if they hadn’t refused to participate.
Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger are the only Republicans on the committee.
No need to read Alan's post further for anyone besides Alan to see he's again utterly lost here.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14416 on: June 24, 2022, 12:04:44 pm »

The Supreme Court's decision to overrule Roe vs Wade today will shift the discussion to abortion in the midterm elections away from anything regarding January 6th.

digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14417 on: June 24, 2022, 12:05:58 pm »

The Supreme Court's decision to overrule Roe vs Wade today will shift the discussion to abortion in the midterm elections away from anything regarding January 6th.
"Ignorance is brought about by assumption."-T. D. Jakes
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Jonathan Cross

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14418 on: June 24, 2022, 12:27:59 pm »

Times may be changing, but they haven't yet.  Most of the terrible problems with EV batteries have been hushed up to keep the public uninformed so they support EV's.  I hope better, more efficient, and less polluting batteries are developed.  Until then, the public should be informed about the issues that make current EV's less desirable environmentally than they're presented as. 

 Fine carry on using your ICE.  I hope I am not polluting all those who live in my area nor choking asthmatics.

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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #14419 on: June 24, 2022, 12:37:39 pm »

Fine carry on using your ICE.  I hope I am not polluting all those who live in my area nor choking asthmatics.


The manufacturing process for batteries pollute as  well and contribute more CO2 to the atmosphere which causes global warming if you believe most environmental scientists.
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