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Author Topic: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa  (Read 1324546 times)

TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #1160 on: November 12, 2020, 07:02:02 pm »

As we ended last time it was your opinion that courts would never side with the Penn Legislature.  As I said at the time others disagree.  I’m quite happy with that state of affairs.

Last merry-go-round, the discussion was about your contention that if two different slates of electors were sent to the Senate to be counted, they would "cancel each other out" and neither would be counted...  "In a case for example where the results of a States election count is in dispute and the Govenor submits a slate of electors for one party and the Congress of that state votes to send a different slate of electors for the other candidate, it could transpire that both sets of disputed electors cancel each other out and the States EC votes will not be counted.  Its a long shot to be sure it it is well within the possible outcomes."

I posted applicable federal law with sections underlined for emphasis and relevance, but without comment.

You replied...  "Of course you assume the law as written is upheld.  And that of course is the entire point of the article.  Given the current political climate there exists the possibility the law gets challenged.  In case you missed it, courts exist to deal with challenges to law."

I said... "3 USC §3 "The number of electors shall be equal to the number of Senators and Representatives to which the several States are by law entitled"

"Currently, that means that the number of electors shall be 538. 3 USC §15 provides a mechanism to insure that number and that all states are represented in the election of the President as provided for in the Constitution. You actually believe that it is legal and constitutional for the electoral "votes of a State to be discarded"? Well, anything can be argued or questioned."

Your typical response came back... "Dude you screwed up.  Just deal with it.  You said  “under no circumstance”. I gave you one, long shot that it is.  What’s the old saying. Laws are made to be broken.  “ Legal” will be what some Judge or Judges say it is on any given day.  USC be damned."

To which my final response was...  "Given that the US Constitution provides for the novel Presidential election system that we have in order to insure that each individual State has their State's interests represented in selecting a President; good luck making your case. It's very likely that a case such as that would be dismissed by the Court as non-justiciable based on the political question doctrine and separation of powers and send it back to Congress to decide for themselves."

* If you're going to state my opinions for me at least do it accurately. "Never side with" and "very likely dismissed" are not the same thing.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2020, 07:10:07 pm by TechTalk »
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #1161 on: November 12, 2020, 07:05:20 pm »

Straight from Fox News (some folks go to):
DHS agency: 'Nov. 3 election was most secure in American history'
by AUSTIN DENEAN, Sinclair Broadcast Group
Thursday, November 12th 2020
In a statement from the Cybersecurity & Infrastructure Security Agency, part of DHS, the agency says there is no evidence any voting system was compromised.
“There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised.” 😱😱😱
« Last Edit: November 12, 2020, 07:10:41 pm by digitaldog »
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faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #1162 on: November 12, 2020, 07:13:22 pm »

Trump's latest tweet:

"“REPORT: DOMINION DELETED 2.7 MILLION TRUMP VOTES NATIONWIDE. DATA ANALYSIS FINDS 221,000 PENNSYLVANIA VOTES SWITCHED FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP TO BIDEN. 941,000 TRUMP VOTES DELETED. STATES USING DOMINION VOTING SYSTEMS SWITCHED 435,000 VOTES FROM TRUMP TO BIDEN.” @ChanelRion @OANN"

And the other side of the story:

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/janelytvynenko/trump-dominion-voting
« Last Edit: November 12, 2020, 07:43:26 pm by faberryman »
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #1163 on: November 12, 2020, 07:19:09 pm »

Trump Campaign Lawyer Admits to Judge: Our Search for Evidence of Fraud Produced Obvious Lies and ‘Spam’

https://lawandcrime.com/2020-election/trump-campaign-lawyer-admits-to-judge-our-search-for-evidence-of-fraud-produced-obvious-lies-and-spam

A Trump campaign attorney conceded in court on Thursday morning that he tried to enter hundreds of dodgy form-filed affidavits into evidence, even though their own investigation found that a subset of the sworn statements that they received were filled with lies and “spam.”

“This is concerning,” Judge Daniel Kiley, from Arizona’s Maricopa County, remarked with some understatement.

“How is that a reliable process of gathering evidence?” the judge asked, later blocking admission of the so-called evidence.

Put on the spot by the judge was the Trump campaign’s lawyer Kory Langhofer, who explained the automated process that reflected their post-election evidence hunt. It included an online form whose reliability Langhofer claimed was boosted by the fact that it included a CAPTCHA, which weeded out the bots. The attorneys then visited the complainants’ homes. The Trump campaign said it excluded the submissions of those who swore to lies, but they included the ones they could not prove were lying into evidence.

Judge Kiley replied that this did not show the remaining affidavits are trustworthy.

“That just shows you cannot disprove what’s asserted,” Kiley noted.

* More at link above
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Jim Pascoe

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #1164 on: November 12, 2020, 07:20:33 pm »

It does not matter, I wont listen to it.  If that means I need to spend a month in FL, where they promised no more lock downs, then that is what I will do.

Joe, do you remember writing this below in mid-March?   I think you’ve been trying to avoid the reality for long enough now.... a quarter of a million Americans have died from COVID since you wrote that.

“Be chicken little if you want, they are not going to pay attention unless things become like Italy. 

I have already talked to some clients, and they are not planning on working from home much longer then what I listed earlier.

In a week and half, two weeks max, I foresee those couple shoots I postponed being shot and others being scheduled under the current situation.  Next week could change this if the death stats rise, but if not ...

The idea we can lock down for a few months without completely changing the psyche of the country, without great issues, is not something I think is possible, nor would I ever want to see our psyche change to allow for that.  It would fundamentally change what it means to be American; our mentality would become as being subservient to the state.”
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kers

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #1165 on: November 12, 2020, 07:21:02 pm »

Rounding the corner - 150K new infections just in US today. Some of them as a result of the MAGA marches. At this rate, we can expect 1 million new cases per week.
I guess they want to march to a new COVID Guinness World Record.

No problem for Trump ; he is immune... he cares about his people, but even more about himself.
If they had held the march before the election there was no discussion who won.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2020, 07:24:31 pm by kers »
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #1166 on: November 12, 2020, 07:43:20 pm »

Last merry-go-round, the discussion was about your contention that if two different slates of electors were sent to the Senate to be counted, they would "cancel each other out" and neither would be counted...  "In a case for example where the results of a States election count is in dispute and the Govenor submits a slate of electors for one party and the Congress of that state votes to send a different slate of electors for the other candidate, it could transpire that both sets of disputed electors cancel each other out and the States EC votes will not be counted.  Its a long shot to be sure it it is well within the possible outcomes."

I posted applicable federal law with sections underlined for emphasis and relevance, but without comment.

You replied...  "Of course you assume the law as written is upheld.  And that of course is the entire point of the article.  Given the current political climate there exists the possibility the law gets challenged.  In case you missed it, courts exist to deal with challenges to law."

I said... "3 USC §3 "The number of electors shall be equal to the number of Senators and Representatives to which the several States are by law entitled"

"Currently, that means that the number of electors shall be 538. 3 USC §15 provides a mechanism to insure that number and that all states are represented in the election of the President as provided for in the Constitution. You actually believe that it is legal and constitutional for the electoral "votes of a State to be discarded"? Well, anything can be argued or questioned."

Your typical response came back... "Dude you screwed up.  Just deal with it.  You said  “under no circumstance”. I gave you one, long shot that it is.  What’s the old saying. Laws are made to be broken.  “ Legal” will be what some Judge or Judges say it is on any given day.  USC be damned."

To which my final response was...  "Given that the US Constitution provides for the novel Presidential election system that we have in order to insure that each individual State has their State's interests represented in selecting a President; good luck making your case. It's very likely that a case such as that would be dismissed by the Court as non-justiciable based on the political question doctrine and separation of powers and send it back to Congress to decide for themselves."

* If you're going to state my opinions for me at least do it accurately. "Never side with" and "very likely dismissed" are not the same thing.

Close enough for horseshoes cowboy, which are what we are throwing. 
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #1167 on: November 12, 2020, 07:45:30 pm »

Claims of dead people voting are frequently based on false assumptions regarding people with the same or similar names who are very much alive. One funny example of that was Trump's ace election fraud investigator Kris Kobach claiming that a dead person voted: Kobach at a press conference said that "Albert K. Brewer" was an example of one such deceased individual who had voted in a recent primary. When The Wichita Eagle followed up on Kobach's assertion, it discovered Brewer, 78 years old, was still alive, although his father, who was born in 1904 and had a different middle initial, had died in 1996. Albert K Brewer a registered Republican like Kobach, was more than a little stunned to be told he’d moved on to the great hereafter. No evidence emerged that anyone had ghost voted in Kansas that year.

Here's one from today...

Michigan Officials Debunk Dead Voter Claims in Trump Campaign’s Latest Lawsuit

https://lawandcrime.com/2020-election/michigan-officials-debunk-dead-voter-claim-in-trump-campaigns-latest-lawsuit

President Donald Trump continues to wage lawsuits aimed that are supposedly aimed at proving widespread voter fraud and overturning the results of the 2020 presidential election. To put it mildly, it’s not going well for the president.

In a federal lawsuit filed in the Western District of Michigan on Wednesday, Trump alleged massive voting irregularities—ranging from votes of the dead being counted to count-watchers being prevented from witnessing the count. Although Team Trump may be seeing dead people, elections authorities sure aren’t.

In the complaint, a Michigan voter, Anita Chase, submitted an affidavit stating that she reviewed voting records and discovered that her deceased son voted in the 2020 election.  Based on information provided by Michigan, however, that allegation is demonstrably false.

Tracy Wimmer, a spokesperson for Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson’s (D) office, told Bridge Michigan that Mark D. Chase, who was born in 1978 and who died in 2016, was listed as living at the same address as his mother. That Mark D. Chase last voted in 2014, and his voter registration was cancelled in 2016 (which matches an online obituary date). Two other individuals also named Mark D. Chase are listed in Michigan’s Qualified Voter File. Both were born in different years than Anita Chase’s son, and each lives in a different county. The logical inference, therefore, is that the Mark D. Chase who voted was not Anita Chase’s son, but rather, another Michigan voter with the same name.

Mr. Chase isn’t the only Michigan voter whose life or death has been called into question by Trump campaign lawyers. William Bradley of Wayne county, for example, was named online as “dead” and “trying to steal the election.” In actuality, Mr. Bradley is alive and well in Detroit; his father, however, with whom he shared a name, died in 1984.

Philadelphia City Commissioner Al Schmidt also looked into allegations that dead voters had “cast” votes in the election.

Schmidt, the Republican co-chair overseeing Philadelphia elections, told CNN that he has “seen most fantastical things on social media, making completely ridiculous allegations that have no basis in fact at all and seen them spread.” He continued to explain that a report alleging that “a long list of people” said that there “were dead voters who voted in Philadelphia.” When Philadelphia officials looked up the voting histories, though, “Not a single one of them voted in Philadelphia after they died.”

Schmidt said it was alarming how hungry people are to consume lies.

* More at link above
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #1168 on: November 12, 2020, 07:48:29 pm »

Close enough for horseshoes cowboy, which are what we are throwing.

Yee-Hah! "Close enough for horseshoes" seems to be the governing philosophy for voter fraud claims being submitted to courts these days.
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Jim Pascoe

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #1169 on: November 12, 2020, 07:49:32 pm »

Sure why not.  Trump cheats.  Does that make you feel better.  I have no doubt that most business leaders and politicians, along with may regular folk cheat.  Its human nature.

My experience in life is that those who cheat the most assume everyone else is cheating too.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #1170 on: November 12, 2020, 07:52:13 pm »

Yee-Hah! "Close enough for horseshoes" seems to be the governing philosophy for voter fraud claims being submitted to courts these days.

Wheat and chaff, dude.  Either they win the cases or they don’t, but try they will. 
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #1171 on: November 12, 2020, 07:56:14 pm »

My experience in life is that those who cheat the most assume everyone else is cheating too.

My experience is that everyone has cheated one time or another. 
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James Clark

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #1172 on: November 12, 2020, 07:57:20 pm »

My experience in life is that those who cheat the most assume everyone else is cheating too.

I think you've hit the nail on the head here.
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James Clark

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #1173 on: November 12, 2020, 07:58:22 pm »



Schmidt, the Republican co-chair overseeing Philadelphia elections, told CNN that he has “seen most fantastical things on social media, making completely ridiculous allegations that have no basis in fact at all and seen them spread.” He continued to explain that a report alleging that “a long list of people” said that there “were dead voters who voted in Philadelphia.” When Philadelphia officials looked up the voting histories, though, “Not a single one of them voted in Philadelphia after they died.”

Schmidt said it was alarming how hungry people are to consume lies.



Let's repeat this for emphasis.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #1174 on: November 12, 2020, 08:03:20 pm »

Let's repeat this for emphasis.

Well look , someone is actually doing the work of investigation.  It’s a start.
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Chris Kern

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #1175 on: November 12, 2020, 08:08:08 pm »

Straight from Fox News (some folks go to):
. . .
In a statement from the Cybersecurity & Infrastructure Security Agency, part of DHS, the agency says there is no evidence any voting system was compromised.
“There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised.”

Another quote from the announcement::

Quote
While we know there are many unfounded claims and opportunities for misinformation about the process of our elections, we can assure you we have the utmost confidence in the security and integrity of our elections, and you should too. When you have questions, turn to elections officials as trusted voices as they administer elections.

I don't have any inside information, but if I were to hazard a guess it would be that the intelligence services for the countries that might have been most tempted to interfere with the U.S. election infrastructure—Russia and Iran—were told to stand down because their governments anticipated Trump would lose, and were concerned about the imposition of additional sanctions from the Biden Administration and Congress.

We do have reliable news reports that the Russian government again used social media to create doubt about the integrity of the process and support Trump's re-election, but I suspect actually mucking with the systems in the states for conducting the election, assuming Russia has the capability, was considered too much of a risk.

LesPalenik

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #1176 on: November 12, 2020, 08:11:32 pm »

Trump's latest tweet:

"“REPORT: DOMINION DELETED 2.7 MILLION TRUMP VOTES NATIONWIDE. DATA ANALYSIS FINDS 221,000 PENNSYLVANIA VOTES SWITCHED FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP TO BIDEN. 941,000 TRUMP VOTES DELETED. STATES USING DOMINION VOTING SYSTEMS SWITCHED 435,000 VOTES FROM TRUMP TO BIDEN.” @ChanelRion @OANN"

And the other side of the story:

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/janelytvynenko/trump-dominion-voting

Dominion used to one of the largest supermarkets in Canada. At one time, they had about 500 stores across Canada. That would compare with 538 stores of Piggly Wiggly supermarkets in US.
 
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #1177 on: November 12, 2020, 08:13:04 pm »

Wheat and chaff, dude.  Either they win the cases or they don’t, but try they will.

You seem pretty blasé about the fraud being committed when Trump and Republicans make fraudulent claims of fraud.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #1178 on: November 12, 2020, 08:21:23 pm »

You seem pretty blasé about the fraud being committed when Trump and Republicans make fraudulent claims of fraud.

I’m open to them looking in every corner see what they find. Some things may not pan out and time is quite limited. 

But if you go backwards you will also see I don’t expect him to be successful. 
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Jim Pascoe

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #1179 on: November 12, 2020, 08:23:37 pm »

My experience is that everyone has cheated one time or another.

Well a bit like the alleged voter fraud, degree is everything. Of course every human has probably cheated, lied, stolen something and farted at an inappropriate time.
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