Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[digitaldog]

This is far-fetched.

Yes, but this shows his utter confusion:

The failure of the Afghan military in this situation is solely due to Biden.

Followed by rubbishL 

We trained them to only be effective with air support, like our military and like with the South Vietnam military.

Followed by more utter confusion:

This is of course not Biden's doing

Of course indeed.

Criteria to diagnose schizophrenia:
Hallucinations.
Delusions.
Disorganized speech. (and writings)
Disorganized or catatonic behavior.
Negative symptoms (emotional flatness, apathy, lack of speech)

[David Sutton]

Ah, Twitter for reference; perfect. Another American summed up this performance today by writing:
“Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.” Martin Luther King

A sad and vulgar response and a good example of what happens when you are in an abusive relationship with your government and media. Anyone not mired in anger and fear would have had the curiosity to follow the Twitter to the newsfeed and to the hospital in question.

Masks are a good example of the politics of power. A good idea in theory, but has anyone bothered to go out in the street and see how they work in practice?
As the virus becomes less fatal but more contagious, a mask that doesn't seal the nose and mouth is mere virtue signalling. Don't give me that nonsense about anything better than nothing! You want masks to work? Make sure every one being worn is at least to the N95 standard. Oh, and since beards break the seal, better make sure everyone is clean shaven. Since sneezing, coughing and talking above a whisper also breaks the seal better stop that as well. Since the masks stop moisture droplets, but virus particles pass straight through, make sure they are properly disposed of after use and a fresh one used to avoid virus laden droplets drying out and spreading. Goggles are are good idea if you want to stop infection via the eyes.

I used to think as I watched the US collapse that if it was lucky it would end up as a sort of backwater filled with people bickering with eachother. I hadn't counted on the power of your government to control the media and to divide and rule. Since your last election we are watching the US turn in to a sort of more authoritarian version of Nth Korea. A really weird feeling.

[David Sutton]

Thanks for the links on sterilizing immunity. I was not aware of this. But the fact is that it's almost entirely irrelevant. The vaccines are extremely effective at preventing symptoms, serious illness, hospitalization, and death. And if you can still pass on covid, so what? *IF* other people are also vaccinated. Just because a vaccine is not perfect is not a reason to reject it.

And do you really want to cite Twitter as a source? It reeks of being pure garbage just on the face of it. Particularly in light of the reams of data from legitimate sources saying that only 1-2% of hospitalized patients are fully vaccinated.

Now that we know fully vaccinated people can carry the same viral load as everyone else, and more than half of critical hospital hospital admissions were fully vaccinated (take your pick of the exact percentage, it depends on the country), at what point do we admit these vaccines are a failure? Anyone open to that idea (and who don't see it their sacred duty to to defend current orthodoxy) would say that failure is a possibility and make arrangements for that. I'd take a stab in the dark and say it will be clear by the end of the year.

[TechTalk]

Now that we know fully vaccinated people can carry the same viral load as everyone else

The word "can" indicates a possibility. It is not equivalent to the word "do". Do the we, for whom you're the spokesperson, know what percentage of fully vaccinated people actually do "carry the same viral load as everyone else"? Is everyone else carrying a viral load? Perhaps english is your second language?

at what point do we admit these vaccines are a failure?

I would assume that would be when the percentage of people critically ill and dying is equal to the percentage of people vaccinated. At least, that's the equation I would use. Then again, I'm not an epidemiologist. I can only assume that you have no expertise in the field either after reading your post.

[wcarlew]

At first I thought this was for the humour section. But, unfortunately, it seems to fit here.

[TechTalk]

Masks are a good example of the politics of power. A good idea in theory, but has anyone bothered to go out in the street and see how they work in practice?

Yes. Thank you Dr. Lister and Dr. Mikulicz for getting the ball rolling in the 19th century.

[TechTalk]

I'd take a stab in the dark...

Stabbing in the dark is a pretty apt description for this method of research and reasoning.

[LesPalenik]

Now that we know fully vaccinated people can carry the same viral load as everyone else, and more than half of critical hospital hospital admissions were fully vaccinated (take your pick of the exact percentage, it depends on the country), at what point do we admit these vaccines are a failure? Anyone open to that idea (and who don't see it their sacred duty to to defend current orthodoxy) would say that failure is a possibility and make arrangements for that. I'd take a stab in the dark and say it will be clear by the end of the year.

That's exactly what Trump said last year.

[Robert Roaldi]

... at what point do we admit these vaccines are a failure? ...

Are you being serious?

[MattBurt]

This discussion is a good illustration of where alternative facts can lead us.

[digitaldog]

This discussion is a good illustration of where alternative facts can lead us.

Indeed. And to add to that (and that old dog whistle), this just in:

Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick said unvaccinated African Americans — not lax coronavirus precautions in states like his — are responsible for the surge in Covid-19 cases in his state.

"The Covid is spreading, particularly most of the numbers are with the unvaccinated, and the Democrats like to blame Republicans on that," Patrick told Fox News host Laura Ingraham in an interview Thursday night. "Well, the biggest group in most states are African Americans who have not been vaccinated. Last time I checked, over 90 percent of them vote for Democrats in their major cities and major counties, so it's up to the Democrats to get ... as many people vaccinated."

On the other hand:

African Americans, who have had lower rates of vaccinations, make up about 13 percent of the state population and about 16 percent of cases, while whites and Hispanics, who make up more than 80 percent of the population, have accounted for about 70 percent of cases, according to statistics from the Texas Department of State Health Services.

[TechTalk]

Patrick told Fox News host Laura Ingraham in an interview

The blonde leading the blind.

[JoeKitchen]

This is far-fetched.

Okay, the Biden administration.  Fixed it for you.  He is at fault for this, period.  He even said, during the ABC interview, that regardless of what happened before he took office, he was going to do this anyway.  But look at what is happening on the ground.

Reports are that the Brits and the French are going to retrieve their citizens, meanwhile our military is still informing people they need to get to the airport themselves.  And then charging them $2K for a flight home (as of this morning anyway); I wish I was joking on this.  Last night an American woman trying to do just that was beaten, twice, by the Taliban.  Even CNN is reporting that the Taliban are taking passports of USA citizens, presumably as a way to bribe the Biden administration on a per citizen price.  Since military operations have been taken off of the table, by Biden, bribes are the only thing Biden has left at this point to get the Taliban to cooperate.  Give it a few months and that will come out. 

But here is the real cost, Former interpreter in Afghanistan: 'I wish I didn't work with the United States'  Biden left people like him out to dry, which means in the future we will have a harder time working with locals in other parts of the world.  This is why you make sure to not abandon people that help you because in the future people will be less likely to help you if you do. 

If you really dont thing this is an issue, please give me one news source that is reporting this overall positively or the name of one Dem who is defending Biden (other then Pelosi, who has clearly lost it as well).  I can not think of any; they are all just sitting back not saying anything.  I suspect, when the Senate comes back and holds hearings, we wont any defense of the administration from any Dems either. 

[digitaldog]

If you really dont thing this is an issue, please give me one news source that is reporting this overall positively or the name of one Dem who is defending Biden (other then Pelosi, who has clearly lost it as well).

"If you want a wise answer, ask a reasonable question." -Johann von Goethe

[David Sutton]

Yes. Thank you Dr. Lister and Dr. Mikulicz for getting the ball rolling in the 19th century.

You silly silly person. Your link refers to filtering bacteria. Medical masks are quite effective against a virus encapsulated in snot, but otherwise a virus is small enough to pass straight through.

It's hard to get statistics on the effectiveness of masks alone, but there is a correlation between mask wearing/high vaccination rates and high infection rates. Places that have the highest rates of mask use and vaccination tend to have the highest infection rates. Compare Israel and the Palestinian territories for example, or Vermont vs the rest of the US.
A link between the two may be this. The way the spike protein connects to this virus has never been seen before in nature. From memory the furin gene specifically. The Salk Institute recenlty released a study showing the issue with this pandemic is not the virus itself, but it's the spike protein that's causing the damage to the heart, lungs, brain and reproductive systems. Using a vaccine that causes the body to produce the same spike protein to elicit an immune response may be an example of Cipolla's fourth law down the track. Shrugging my shoulders on that.

[digitaldog]

You silly silly person. Your link refers to filtering bacteria. Medical masks are quite effective against a virus encapsulated in snot, but otherwise a virus is small enough to pass straight through.

You silly person, you didn't read or comprehend:

During the 1918–19 influenza pandemic, wearing a mask became mandatory for police forces, medical workers, and even residents in some US cities, although its use was often controversial. Yet in cities like San Francisco, the decline in deaths from influenza was partly attributed to the mandatory mask-wearing policies. At this point, the rationale for wearing masks moved beyond their original use in the operating theatre: they now also protected the wearer against infection.

It's hard to get statistics on the effectiveness of masks alone

It's hard to get you to understand.

[TechTalk]

You silly silly person. Your link refers to filtering bacteria. Medical masks are quite effective against a virus encapsulated in snot, but otherwise a virus is small enough to pass straight through

You're a real stable genius. However, although virus and bacteria vary in size, it is the droplets of saliva and respiratory fluids in which those virus and bacteria are contained and live and for which "out in the street", as you suggested needed study, ordinary masks are used to reduce droplet spread and subsequent viral transmission. To your relief, if you try looking, you can find countless studies which have been conducted or are ongoing regarding masks and viral transmission.

To feed your scientific wisdom and quench your thirst for studies of the effectiveness of various types of masks used in various conditions and scenarios, might I suggest using your google machine? I'm sure that you can find studies that satisfy your ideological needs and prove your independence of thought. In every field, there are all types of people. For instance, with only casual effort invested in browsing thru the internet, I have seen ample anthropological and zoological evidence that most squirrels can easily locate all the nuts they require to sustain themselves. Much like social media.

Naturally, the better the mask (tighter fit, finer filtering, etc.), the greater the reduction in transmission will be. Now, elimination and reduction of transmission are not the same thing. The former would require extreme and nearly impossible effort; while the latter simply requires some common sense. If you believe that the goal of mask wearing should be the elimination of transmission, I would encourage you to don your scuba gear when engaging in public. You'll make quite the impression as a truly independent thinker of sound scientific reasoning. Alternatively, you could look for a good deal on a hazmat suit.

[TechTalk]

Fixed it for you.

I've noticed, while browsing online commentary, that this phrase is often a signal or warning sign that what you are about to encounter is misguided, misleading, fictitious, or some combination thereof. The implied juvenile arrogance alone is usually enough to spark the desire to move on to something else.

[Robert Roaldi]

Okay, the Biden administration.  Fixed it for you.  He is at fault for this, period.  He even said, during the ABC interview, that regardless of what happened before he took office, he was going to do this anyway.  But look at what is happening on the ground.

Reports are that the Brits and the French are going to retrieve their citizens, meanwhile our military is still informing people they need to get to the airport themselves.  And then charging them $2K for a flight home (as of this morning anyway); I wish I was joking on this.  Last night an American woman trying to do just that was beaten, twice, by the Taliban.  Even CNN is reporting that the Taliban are taking passports of USA citizens, presumably as a way to bribe the Biden administration on a per citizen price.  Since military operations have been taken off of the table, by Biden, bribes are the only thing Biden has left at this point to get the Taliban to cooperate.  Give it a few months and that will come out. 

But here is the real cost, Former interpreter in Afghanistan: 'I wish I didn't work with the United States'  Biden left people like him out to dry, which means in the future we will have a harder time working with locals in other parts of the world.  This is why you make sure to not abandon people that help you because in the future people will be less likely to help you if you do. 

If you really dont thing this is an issue, please give me one news source that is reporting this overall positively or the name of one Dem who is defending Biden (other then Pelosi, who has clearly lost it as well).  I can not think of any; they are all just sitting back not saying anything.  I suspect, when the Senate comes back and holds hearings, we wont any defense of the administration from any Dems either.

I am in no doubt that there will be horror stories and I am also in no doubt that we will only hear about horror stories with American victims. After 20 years of US involvement, the country doesn't seem to be appreciably better off than before and there seems to be large numbers of people there who are not happy with USA. But ok, if you think that is Biden's fault, that's your call. In the bigger picture, what has the USA learned from this that it will carry forward into its next foreign involvement?

Not to be cheeky or anything, but in an earlier post you mentioned that being there was (in part) about stopping terrorism. Maybe the US military should be deployed to Michigan, Wisconsin and Montana and such places to do something about those "terrorist" militias there that are armed and radicalized.

[digitaldog]

Perfect: