Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[chez]

Unfortunately the no mask/no vax dribble-chins will most likely have already passed on their genes when the covid gets them.

But you want to see a huge rush for vaccines? Here's how. Starting now, anyone eligible for a jab but who hasn't gotten one will be held personally responsible for any covid-related medical costs. No insurance, no Medicaid, no Medicare. Have to sell your house, cash out retirement funds? Tough. You wanted "personal choice," here it is.

Why not then extend the same to people who smoke, drink and eat too much? I believe health care as a human right that every single body deserves. But not allowing people without full vaccines into facilities like restaurants, bars, theatres etc is something I can fully support.

[digitaldog]

Why not then extend the same to people who smoke, drink and eat too much? I believe health care as a human right that every single body deserves. But not allowing people without full vaccines into facilities like restaurants, bars, theatres etc is something I can fully support.

The big difference is that those are not highly contagious communicable diseases.
Polio anyone? Smallpox?

[digitaldog]

Speaking of anti-vax knuckle dragging (on top of Greg Abbott getting Covid-19):

Christian Radio Host Who Called Vaccine ‘Government Control’ Dies of COVID-19
Jimmy DeYoung, who trafficked in Christian prophecy, asked in an interview, “Could this vaccine be another form of government control of the people?”

[David Sutton]

The big difference is that those are not highly contagious communicable diseases.
Polio anyone? Smallpox?

Indeed, but we shouldn't compare the current vaccines with those used for smallpox and polio which used a dead or weakened version of the pathogen. They were sterilising and the current gene therapy vaccines are not, and this may have consequences. Particularly in that they put pressure on the virus to evolve and render the vaccine useless. If the virus follows the usual course for a pandemic, we would expect it to become more contagious but less lethal over time, and this is apparently what we see. We are also seeing an increase in those fully vaccinated becoming becoming seriously ill and hospitalised. From memory, 95% in Israel and 75% in Iceland.  Again what we would expect from a non-sterilising vaccine. Time will tell.
The bigger issue is that the vaccine is being used by elites to divide and rule. They don't care for example who is in power in your country as long as you get hot under the collar over it. A version of the magician's trick of distraction.
Get vaccinated or not? Wear a mask or not? Whatever, but don't play their game and make it an issue.

[digitaldog]

Indeed, but we shouldn't compare the current vaccines with those used for smallpox and polio which used a dead or weakened version of the pathogen.

Why not? The results of tens (sorry, hundreds)of millions of Covid-19 vaccinations speak for themselves. The results of those getting sick and those that die since the vaccines thanks to Delta is pretty clear. The action from those in the past who rolled up their sleeves for Polio and Smallpox vs. the divide today is pretty clear.

Get vaccinated or not? Wear a mask or not?

I don't even see the need for such a question. The science is amazingly clear.
The analogy if I can be so kind, was about people over eating and getting fat, or smoking etc.  That IS their choice and the worst result is they die. And also mentioned drinking. Guess what, one's freedom doesn't allow them to drink to a level, and get behind the wheel; they can kill others! They are not free not to stop at red lights either.
So again, the big difference is that those examples (smoking, eating drinking) are not highly contagious communicable diseases that affect others, sadly now, children who can't be vaccinated. No one has the 'right' or freedom to infect others.

[David Sutton]

Why not?

I won't point out the obvious.
Cheers

[digitaldog]

I won't point out the obvious.
Cheers

Sounds like a good plan.

[David Sutton]

David Bentley Hart has a useful analysis:
"Americans are, of course, the most thoroughly and passively indoctrinated people on earth. They know next to nothing as a rule about their own history, or the histories of other nations, or the histories of the various social movements that have risen and fallen in the past, and they certainly know little or nothing of the complexities and contradictions comprised within words like “socialism” and “capitalism.” Chiefly, what they have been trained not to know or even suspect is that, in many ways, they enjoy far fewer freedoms, and suffer under a more intrusive centralized state, than do the citizens of countries with more vigorous social-democratic institutions. This is at once the most comic and most tragic aspect of the excitable alarm that talk of social democracy or democratic socialism can elicit on these shores. An enormous number of Americans have been persuaded to believe that they are freer in the abstract than, say, Germans or Danes precisely because they possess far fewer freedoms in the concrete. They are far more vulnerable to medical and financial crisis, far more likely to receive inadequate health coverage, far more prone to irreparable insolvency, far more unprotected against predatory creditors, far more subject to income inequality, and so forth, while effectively paying more in tax (when one figures in federal, state, local, and sales taxes, and then compounds those by all the expenditures that in this country, as almost nowhere else, their taxes do not cover)".
Not limited to the US. Every major western government is apparently run by morons who have no concept of what is a civilisation or how to maintain it. The consequences everywhere for those with eyes to see.

edited to be clear I'm not referring to any individual

[Robert Roaldi]

... We are also seeing an increase in those fully vaccinated becoming becoming seriously ill and hospitalised. From memory, 95% in Israel and 75% in Iceland.  Again what we would expect from a non-sterilising vaccine. ...

Those numbers don't match anything I've read or heard anywhere else.

A recent Sam Harris podcast provides a good overview of the data, https://samharris.org/podcasts/256-contagion-bad-ideas/. It's a long piece but there was a lot to cover.

[digitaldog]

David Bentley Hart has a useful analysis:
"Americans are, of course, the most thoroughly and passively indoctrinated people on earth.”
 
edited to be clear I'm not referring to any individual

An American said:
"All generalizations are false, including this one." -Mark Twain

[digitaldog]

Those numbers don't match anything I've read or heard anywhere else.

Ditto; it's FUD.

[PeterAit]

Why not then extend the same to people who smoke, drink and eat too much? I believe health care as a human right that every single body deserves. But not allowing people without full vaccines into facilities like restaurants, bars, theatres etc is something I can fully support.

I was speaking tongue-in-cheek, at least somewhat, but I am getting more and more pissed about this. The jab is free, very effective, with no or minor side effects, and the costs to society of treating unvaxxed covid patients is enormous. The amount of crap the anti-vaxxers believe is astounding, and because they are so stupid you cannot talk reason to them. But hit them in their wallet and they will pay attention.

[PeterAit]

We are also seeing an increase in those fully vaccinated becoming becoming seriously ill and hospitalised. From memory, 95% in Israel and 75% in Iceland.  Again what we would expect from a non-sterilising vaccine.

I am trying not to be rude, but this such a festering pile of pig spittle. The idea of sterilizing is completely irrelevant for RNA vaccines, there is nothing alive or potentially alive in them to need sterilization. Since you don't know anything about vaccines maybe you should SHUT UP about them. And your percentages for vaccinated people "becoming seriously ill and hospitalised" is so amazingly wrong that I really don't know what to say. The true numbers are that only about 1% of people being hospitalized for covid have been vaccinated.

[digitaldog]

I am trying not to be rude, but this such a festering pile of pig spittle.

That is a much kinder way of saying what I was thinking, thank you!

The idea of sterilizing is completely irrelevant for RNA vaccines, there is nothing alive or potentially alive in them to need sterilization. Since you don't know anything about vaccines maybe you should SHUT UP about them. And your percentages for vaccinated people "becoming seriously ill and hospitalised" is so amazingly wrong that I really don't know what to say. The true numbers are that only about 1% of people being hospitalized for covid have been vaccinated.

Yup, he missed both our points (the results of the vaccines not how they may be constructed) and his memory is as unreliable as his ideas about virology. I almost wanted to ask if he's been vaccinated but now I don't really care. This fellow hasn't a clue about this topic, just foolish ideas about highly contagious communicable diseases . 

[JoeKitchen]

Unfortunately the no mask/no vax dribble-chins will most likely have already passed on their genes when the covid gets them.

But you want to see a huge rush for vaccines? Here's how. Starting now, anyone eligible for a jab but who hasn't gotten one will be held personally responsible for any covid-related medical costs. No insurance, no Medicaid, no Medicare. Have to sell your house, cash out retirement funds? Tough. You wanted "personal choice," here it is.

My God Peter, welcome to libertarianism! 

I took a couple of months off from this site only to come back and see ... surprise surprise ... the same old control freaks are complaining about not being able to control others. 

Here's an idea, if you're vaccinated, which I would recommend, you're golden.  Less then 1% of people being hospitalized are vaccinated.  No reason to worry, so dont worry.  If you're not vaccinated, you made your choice and you get to deal with the fallout.  Now, this may be hard for some to believe here, but, rest assured, I know many who are not vaccinated, they just dont seem to be worrying either. 

The only people who are still hysterical about this are left wing control freaks who, for some reason, consider it a personal insult when some person does not do what they think that person should do.  It's a free country and people need to make their own decisions. 

Now, insofar as Chez's remarks of banning people from polite society if they are not vaccinated, this is asinine for two reasons.  First, that would mean that non-vaccinated people would just start hanging out together, at least here in the mostly free USA (I cant speak for my comrades up North), allowing for C-19 to spread and mutate faster.  (Perhaps we will get up to Omega with this!)  Second, one of the groups with the largest percentage of unvaccinated individuals are inner city Blacks, at least in Philly and NYC.  So, any policy like this would disproportionately effect Blacks at a higher rate then whites, which all the CRT people have told us is racist.  Dems have put themselves between a rock and hard place with this. 

For example, as of today, only 27% of Blacks in NYC are vaccinated, while whites are at 53%, meaning once BeBosso's NYC Key goes into effect, we will be provided with many videos of Blacks being turned away from restaurants & bars & gyms while Whites calmly walk in.  I dont think this policy will work out well politically for BeBosso or Democrats in general.  For contrast, the dem mayor of Boston, who is black, is comparing vaccines passports to slavery freedom papers. 


Update: well, out of curiosity I decided to check the official stats on NYC vaccines and it seems I got some bad information on the percentages.  Turns out it is worse then what I thought!  Here are the official NY state vaccination stats.    I certainly thought the totality of New Yorkers who are vaccinated would be higher, but it is sitting at just 63%.   So 37% of the city will, in short order, find themselves unable to dine out or get a drink.  Assuming that the mayor does not cave, this will be a huge blow, financially, to the city's restaurants, making the overall economic condition of NYC even worse then what it is now. 

[digitaldog]

Here's an idea, if you're vaccinated, which I would recommend, you're golden.  Less then 1% of people being hospitalized are vaccinated. 

Old ideas. You missed today's CDC announcements*. 
"Blacks' as you call them, have historical reasons to be cautious of vaccines. But none the less, many are getting them thankfully.
As for being turned away, ever hear of "No shoes, no shirt, no service"? The massive difference you fail to grasp is that those conditions for refusal to serve, totally justified as the 'freedom' of business owners, pales in comparison to letting unvaccinated and unmasked people into a business. But surprise surprise ... the same old science denier freaks are complaining about business owners being able to control their customers. 
Non-vaccinated people should just start hanging out together; and staying out of our hospitals, dying as fast as possible together. And in Texas, more mortuary trailers on the way.

"You know the good part about all those executions in Texas? Fewer Texans". -George Carlin
Substitute executions with Covid-19

*Golden....
*"Current protection against severe disease, hospitalization, and death could diminish in the months ahead, especially among those who are at higher risk or were vaccinated during the earlier phases of the vaccination rollout. For that reason, we conclude that a booster shot will be needed to maximize vaccine-induced protection and prolong its durability."
 

[digitaldog]

Second, the group with the largest percentage of unvaccinated individuals are inner city Blacks, at least in Philly and NYC.

As of August 2, 2021, CDC reported that race/ethnicity was known for 58% of people who had received at least one dose of the vaccine. Among this group, nearly two thirds were White (59%), 10% were Black, 16% were Hispanic, 6% were Asian, 1% were American Indian or Alaska Native, and <1% were Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander, while 8% reported multiple or other race. However, CDC data also show that recent vaccinations are reaching larger shares of Hispanic, Asian, and Black populations compared to overall vaccinations. Twenty-six percent of vaccines administered in the past 14 days have gone to Hispanic people, 4% to Asian people, and 15% to Black people (Figure 1). These recent patterns suggest a narrowing of racial gaps in vaccinations at the national level, particularly for Hispanic and Black people, who account for a larger share of recent vaccinations compared to their share of the total population (26% vs. 17% and 15% vs. 12%, respectively).  While these data provide helpful insights at a national level, to date, CDC is not publicly reporting state-level data on the racial/ethnic composition of people vaccinated.

[digitaldog]

David Bentley Hart has a useful analysis:
"Americans are, of course, the most thoroughly and passively indoctrinated people on earth".

From "The Week"

Good week for:
American exceptionalism, after a YouGov survey found that
Americans are an average 7.8 points more confident than Brits that
they could beat various animals in a one-on-one fight, including a
medium-size dog, a chimpanzee, a kangaroo, and a goose.

It's a free country and people need to make their own decisions. 

Good week for:
Standing your ground, after a Texas restaurant posted a front-
door sign saying that because of the Delta outbreak, patrons are
required to wear masks again, and advising those who call the staff
"sheep," "anti-American, or "communists" that "we survived
death threats from NRA wack-jobs, so we should be OK not serving you meatloaf today.”

The humor impaired are forgiven for not understanding either.

[JoeKitchen]

But anyway, to more important issues.

We have nearly 15,000 stranded Americans, along with 100K+ Afghan allies, now behind enemy lines with, as it appears, little to no interest is rescuing them ourselves.  We are instead asking the Taliban to help us with getting these people out while ignoring the fact that they, the Taliban, are beating those who try to get to the airport.  Not to mention, even if we did want to get them out ourselves, we abandoned Bagram airfield, which was in a highly defensive position geographically and could handle any type of airplane, for Kabul, which is at the bottom of a basin and indefensible.  Today, the state department is not even guaranteeing that we will stay past this month, meaning a good amount of our citizens, let alone Afghans that worked with us, will be stranded in, the now, Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan.  And this all happened over just a long weekend. 

The adults are back in the room baby! and Mr Balding Rhodes Scholar assured us they planned for all contingencies here.  Holy Shit, I hate to see what happens when Biden just wings it. 

On the International front, it is truly hard to think of any other time in history where our allies have spoken so poorly about us.  Sure, Trump got his fair share of world leaders criticizing his personality foibles, but many of the comments I am seeing out of England and France and Germany are damning.  Not to mention, Al Qaeda and ISIS will be making a come back, and what recruitment propaganda we have just given them.  Point of entry, after they reassemble, to engage in new terrorist attacks against us will almost certainly be our porous Southern border.  Last, if you want to see a free Taiwan, I'd go soon, because China is already licking its fingers. 

But hey, always look on the bright side of life, American Triumph: The Most Inclusive National Embarrassment in History

Is this a satire or not, because from what I have been hearing over the last 7 months, it is a little difficult to tell. 

[digitaldog]

But anyway, to more important issues.

Sure, compared to the death (so far) of 623 thousand Americans to Covid-19, more important for you.... to digress from.

We have nearly 15,000 stranded Americans, along with 100K+ Afghan allies, now behind enemy lines with, as it appears, little to no interest is rescuing them ourselves.

No, there is interest and it is being worked on.
Did the previous and current administration mess this up? Yes. Should our allies there be brought home? Yes. Should those fine Afghan's be given a home in the US? Yes.
Is there a right wing nut job on Fox calling for this not to be allowed and whipping up the base of morons? Yes.
Tucker Carlson says Afghan refugees will 'invade' the US and over the next decade their numbers 'may swell to the millions'
And:
TUCKER CARLSON HAS FOUND A NEW SCAPEGOAT: AFGHAN REFUGEES
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/tucker-carlson-afghanistan-refugees-invasion-b1903840.html