US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)

Biden

14 (66.7%)

Trump

7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm

[Craig Lamson]

Why is it only Fox infotainment news shows hemorrhage advertisers?  I don't see major losses at CNN or MSNBC.

Because the lefites like to intimidate advertisers who support shows they don't like.  Surely you can't be this uninformed. Still Tucker destroys all the other cable networks in ratings. 

Tucker ad boycott.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/12/media/tucker-carlson-ad-boycott/index.html

[Alan Goldhammer]

I've never voted by dropping off my ballot in my entire life and know no one who ever did. I've always voted in person or by mail.  Simple enough.  This is a tempest in a teapot.

If the postal service were reliable these days this would be a non-issue.  In our local neighborhood, not a day goes by without someone reporting lost or misdelivered mail!  This is why the drop off boxes are so important.  We did not mail out ballots but dropped them off.  We got an email two days letter noting they were received.  I assume from your statement that you mailed yours, did you get notification that they were received?

[faberryman]

That appears to be the case but does it change the situation?  The emails have been verified.  The story got squashed unlike many they ran with less verification about Trump.  If that works for you, ok.  Not for me.

Read that Greenwald piece.  It may not change your mind but it will add some additioan perspective.  As you now know, Greenwald is not right wing.

I don't know which emails have been verified or by whom, but maybe you are satisfied that they are true and accurate copies of emails to and from Hunter Biden, which is fine by me. At this point, I don't feel like spending a lot of time on it. I am still trying to figure out what crime was committed by whom. I mean Trump and friends always said colluding was not a crime, so I don't know what they are really complaining about. Maybe Biden lied when he said he didn't ever talk with his son about business or had never been introduced to some Burisma guy or whatever. Trump supporters have said Biden is senile, so I don't know why they expect him to remember stuff. Besides, Trump lies every time he opens his mouth, so he doesn't exact occupy the moral high ground. I thought the Republicans in the Senate have already looked at all the stuff he and his son are supposed to have done in Ukraine and came up with nothing.

If this is a big deal, Barr should appoint a special counsel, and if Biden wins, Biden will have to wrestle with the issue of firing him or not. If Trump wins, we can go through the same process as we did with the so-called Russia hoax, and if it turns out that Biden did something wrong, met out the appropriate punishment. If they don't find anything, then he can phone up Joe and Mika every morning and whine about it. Then in 2024 he can find out something sinister about the Republican candidate, and we can do it all over again. Such is life.

I read the Greenwald piece and thought that he made some good points, but I didn't think it was dispositive on the issue. I think there is room for reasonable minds to differ on the issue.

In 2016, I thought Trump was more odious than Hillary, which is saying a lot, because I despise her. So I held my nose and voted for her, but I practically had to lash my hands to the steering wheel to drive over to the voting place. I was physically sick to my stomach when I pulled the lever. But I did my civic duty. I would have voted for almost any of the other Republican candidates. And it didn't make a bit of difference because I live in a red state, and Trump carried it by double digits. Then I went home and watched the returns, and was even sicker when they declared Trump the winner. Alan has said there is no Against Trump box, which is a load of bullshit. It's just semantics.

[Alan Klein]

Here are the 254 Texas Counties.  One drop off location for each.

[Alan Goldhammer]

Becuse the lefites like to intimidate advertisers who support shows they don't like.  Surely you can't be this uninformed.

Then those on the right are just stupid.  Why wouldn't they engage in the same efforts?  The only way you can take action against the media is through targeted boycotts.  This is the American way to protest!!! We are seeing lots ob boycotts of Goya products in our area right now because of what their CEO said several months ago.  I stopped buying their stuff.

[Jonathan Cross]

Leonard Cohen's 1993 song 'Democracy' after all these years?
(Available on YouTube.)

Jonathan

[Craig Lamson]

That would be good to know. Should that be the case, it directly contradicts the  "Last month, Texas’s governor, Greg Abbott, a Republican, abruptly issued an order that limited each county in the state to offer one ballot drop box."

Why this election calls into question whether America is a democracy

So it appears that several counties decided to have drop off boxes on their own, it was not Texas law.



Here is what this article says about Texas law and drop boxes.

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/10/23/texas-mail-in-ballot-drop-off/


Texas does not have drop-off boxes, as have been implemented in other states. Instead, to drop off a mail-in ballot in person at any location, voters must present an approved form of identification to a poll worker, and voters may not turn in any one else’s ballot.

[Craig Lamson]

Then those on the right are just stupid.  Why wouldn't they engage in the same efforts?  The only way you can take action against the media is through targeted boycotts.  This is the American way to protest!!! We are seeing lots ob boycotts of Goya products in our area right now because of what their CEO said several months ago.  I stopped buying their stuff.

Perhaps the right believes that Free Speach is a good thing and censorship sucks.  So do like like censorship and the elimination of opposing views Alan?

So you liked the Goya products and then you quit buying them because the company owner did not think like you did?  Cut off you nose to spite your face...Silly.

[Craig Lamson]

I read the Greenwald piece and thought that he made some good points, but I didn't think it was dispositive on the issue. I think there is room for reasonable minds to differ on the issue.

Nothing wrong with differing opinions but do you think the Press did its job?

[Craig Lamson]

There are a lot of ambiguities in election law.  All of the Federal courts including The Supreme Court have been wildly inconsistent not only this year but in years past.  According to your statement above, Bush v Gore was incorrectly decided as The Supreme Court overruled local election law!!!! Scalia expressed concerns about this exact point: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/scalia-thought-bush-v-gore-legal-rationale-was-a-piece-of-s-t-but-backed-it-anyway

Yes the courts have been inconsistant, and that too is a problem, but we deal with their decisions as they come. They are just people after all.

[JoeKitchen]

Then those on the right are just stupid.  Why wouldn't they engage in the same efforts?  The only way you can take action against the media is through targeted boycotts.  This is the American way to protest!!! We are seeing lots ob boycotts of Goya products in our area right now because of what their CEO said several months ago.  I stopped buying their stuff.

And yet ... Goya invests $80M to expand plant as demand for its products grows

But really the net result of the type of stupidity you are pushing is the economy breaking down into two separate ones, with liberal and conservative companies.  We are already see the results of this with extreme drop in sports viewership. 

Do you really think this would be healthy in the long run? 

But the real issue I see with the left today is they assume they are so right and virtuous they feel they have the right to shut others up who disagree with them through whatever means.  Having a disagreement is fine, but lobbying to get someone fired over something they said 4 or 5 years ago, it is getting out of hand.  The WA Post actually wrote a story about a non-political women who wore a halloween costume in which she was making fun of Megan Kelly three years ago in a effort to get her fired.  It worked.  Your side has lost their damn minds. 

[Alan Klein]

The poll of who's going to be sworn in as president should have a write in option.  After all, if Biden/Harris wins, and Biden gets the covid and dies beforehand, Harris will become president.  WHile I wish Joe no ill will, it's a possibility.  ACtually, the same is true about Trump.  He could die of suntan lotion poisoning and Pence would become president.  If both winners (pres and VP) die, then Nancy Pelosi becomes president.  Of course she would be sworn in immediately on their deaths.  We wouldn't have to wait until Jan 21st.   

[Alan Klein]

If the postal service were reliable these days this would be a non-issue.  In our local neighborhood, not a day goes by without someone reporting lost or misdelivered mail!  This is why the drop off boxes are so important.  We did not mail out ballots but dropped them off.  We got an email two days letter noting they were received.  I assume from your statement that you mailed yours, did you get notification that they were received?

I agree with you.  I heard the other day that I think Fox did a mail in test.  They prepared hundreds of envelopes about the size of a typical ballot and mailed them from different regions of the country.  From  some areas 100% were delivered properly.  But that wasn't the case in other areas.  Overall about 2% never showed up or were returned "to sender".  The post office acknowledged that's about right.     That means if 100 million mail in ballots were mail, 2 million would be lost and never counted.  I suppose it could be argued that it would all balance out 50/50 between candidates of which were lost.  But still.  I wonder how many mistakes are made with voting machines, chads, and other counting processes? 

[JoeKitchen]

The poll of who's going to be sworn in as president should have a write in option.  After all, if Biden/Harris wins, and Biden gets the covid and dies beforehand, Harris will become president.  WHile I wish Joe no ill will, it's a possibility.  ACtually, the same is true about Trump.  He could die of suntan lotion poisoning and Pence would become president.  If both winners (pres and VP) die, then Nancy Pelosi becomes president.  Of course she would be sworn in immediately on their deaths.  We wouldn't have to wait until Jan 21st.   

Actually if Biden wins and dies before being sworn in, the constitution has no method on how to deal with that.  You want to talk about litigation from hell. 

What I like best though is the possibility of a 269-269 split.  If this happened the House would decide the president, but there is a chance the split there could be 24-24 after the election, and the Senate decides the VP, but that could end up being 50-50. 

It's 2020; so why not? 

[faberryman]

Nothing wrong with differing opinions but do you think the Press did its job?

We won't know until the story plays out. Maybe the commie/lib press called it right.

[Craig Lamson]

We won't know until the story play out. Maybe the commie/lib press called it right.

I think I know now, but YMMV

[Craig Lamson]

Actually if Biden wins and dies before being sworn in, the constitution has no method on how to deal with that.  You want to talk about litigation from hell. 

What I like best though is the possibility of a 269-269 split.  If this happened the House would decide the president, but there is a chance the split there could be 24-24 after the election, and the Senate decides the VP, but that could end up being 50-50. 

It's 2020; so why not?

I was born on Dec 31, so News Years is a cool time for me, but I have never been more ready to say HAPPY NEW YEAR!  Then again 2021 may be even worse

[Alan Klein]

Then those on the right are just stupid.  Why wouldn't they engage in the same efforts?  The only way you can take action against the media is through targeted boycotts.  This is the American way to protest!!! We are seeing lots ob boycotts of Goya products in our area right now because of what their CEO said several months ago.  I stopped buying their stuff.

I stopped going to movies of actors whose political opinions I don't like.  They should stick to acting. On the other hand, I have no problem looking at your photos.   

[Alan Klein]

And yet ... Goya invests $80M to expand plant as demand for its products grows

But really the net result of the type of stupidity you are pushing is the economy breaking down into two separate ones, with liberal and conservative companies.  We are already see the results of this with extreme drop in sports viewership. 

Do you really think this would be healthy in the long run? 

But the real issue I see with the left today is they assume they are so right and virtuous they feel they have the right to shut others up who disagree with them through whatever means.  Having a disagreement is fine, but lobbying to get someone fired over something they said 4 or 5 years ago, it is getting out of hand.  The WA Post actually wrote a story about a non-political women who wore a halloween costume in which she was making fun of Megan Kelly three years ago in a effort to get her fired.  It worked.  Your side has lost their damn minds. 

It's not a good way to act toward each other as well.  After all, we have to live our lives beyond politics and get along.  It becomes tiresome when everything is tied to it.   

[Alan Klein]

Actually if Biden wins and dies before being sworn in, the constitution has no method on how to deal with that.  You want to talk about litigation from hell. 

What I like best though is the possibility of a 269-269 split.  If this happened the House would decide the president, but there is a chance the split there could be 24-24 after the election, and the Senate decides the VP, but that could end up being 50-50. 

It's 2020; so why not? 

Wouldn't VP Pence decide the split Senate vote?