US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)

Biden

14 (66.7%)

Trump

7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm

[faberryman]

Here is an article, which some may characterize as a pack of lies from the commie/lib media, about why the commie/lib media may not be spending a lot of time covering the Hunter Biden laptop story. I have noticed that the number of stories about this issue has fallen off dramatically in the right wing, or right leaning, press, so maybe they have looked into it, and don't have much more to say. Or there may be some other reason why we aren't hearing more from them. I don't know if anything in the article is true or false, and am not trying to convince you to believe or not, but if you feel like it, you can read it, and assign to it whatever significance that you deem appropriate in the exercise of you own judgment.

Here's what happened when NBC News tried to report on the alleged Hunter Biden emails

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/here-s-what-happened-when-nbc-news-tried-report-alleged-n1245533

And then, with the same caveat, is this:

Tucker Carlson Suddenly Says It’s Time to Leave Hunter Biden Alone

https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-suddenly-says-its-time-to-leave-hunter-biden-alone

[Robert Roaldi]

Here is an article, which some may characterize as a pack of lies from the commie/lib media, about why the commie/lib media may not be spending a lot of time covering the Hunter Biden laptop story. I have noticed that the number of stories about this issue has fallen off dramatically in the right wing, or right leaning, press, so maybe they have looked into it, and don't have much more to say. Or there may be some other reason why we aren't hearing more from them. I don't know if anything in the article is true or false, and am not trying to convince you to believe or not, but if you feel like it, you can read it, and assign to it whatever significance that you deem appropriate in the exercise of you own judgment.

Here's what happened when NBC News tried to report on the alleged Hunter Biden emails

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/here-s-what-happened-when-nbc-news-tried-report-alleged-n1245533

And then, with the same caveat, is this:

Tucker Carlson Suddenly Says It’s Time to Leave Hunter Biden Alone

https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-suddenly-says-its-time-to-leave-hunter-biden-alone

My interpretation is that Tucker had a come-to-Jesus meeting with senior FOX management, who were displeased with him making the network look ridiculous with that "my dog ate my homework" bull he tried to pull. So he had to eat humble pie, but in a way that would not detract too much from his appeal on which they depend for some ad revenue. Tucker's long-term value to FOX may depend on the outcome of the election. Just my opinion, I'm not a TV exec, I just play one on the interweb.

[Craig Lamson]

Here is an article, which some may characterize as a pack of lies from the commie/lib media, about why the commie/lib media may not be spending a lot of time covering the Hunter Biden laptop story. I have noticed that the number of stories about this issue has fallen off dramatically in the right wing, or right leaning, press, so maybe they have looked into it, and don't have much more to say. Or there may be some other reason why we aren't hearing more from them. I don't know if anything in the article is true or false, and am not trying to convince you to believe or not, but if you feel like it, you can read it, and assign to it whatever significance that you deem appropriate in the exercise of you own judgment.

Here's what happened when NBC News tried to report on the alleged Hunter Biden emails

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/here-s-what-happened-when-nbc-news-tried-report-alleged-n1245533

And then, with the same caveat, is this:

Tucker Carlson Suddenly Says It’s Time to Leave Hunter Biden Alone

https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-suddenly-says-its-time-to-leave-hunter-biden-alone

The MSM is in a box now, The NYP is posting again on Twitter and the cats out of the bag.  Besides as close as it is to the election the level of potential harm to Joe has been minimized.  Mission accomplished. 

So my question to NBC.  Rudy would not give you the drive ,but gave you the chance to see the data in person.  Why not at least go and check it out? Far easier I guess to claim they had to have the drive first. 

In any case Tucker said at the start of this that he would not share personal or sexual Hunter material.  It’s not some new revelation.

[Craig Lamson]

My interpretation is that Tucker had a come-to-Jesus meeting with senior FOX management, who were displeased with him making the network look ridiculous with that "my dog ate my homework" bull he tried to pull. So he had to eat humble pie, but in a way that would not detract too much from his appeal on which they depend for some ad revenue. Tucker's long-term value to FOX may depend on the outcome of the election. Just my opinion, I'm not a TV exec, I just play one on the interweb.

Do you watch Tucker?  Do you know what the advertising is like in his show?  The lefts ban Tucker attacks took its toll on the big advertisers.  They are long gone.  Fox is not raking in big bucks from Tuckers show.  What they get is eyeballs as he’s the highest rated show in cable prime time.

Other than that you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

[Ray]

If Trump wins this election there will be a huge number of bookies who will be in deep financial trouble. 

"Bookies have been left stunned by the sheer volume of money being placed on US President Donald Trump to win a second term in the Oval Office.

Two of Australia’s biggest bookmakers, Sportsbet and Ladbrokes, stand to lose around $10 million each if Trump can spring another major upset, this time against Joe Biden."

"There has been almost $400 million placed worldwide on the US election in matched wagers through betting exchange Betfair, with that figure expected to sit around $1 billion by the time polls close on Wednesday (AEDT)."

https://7news.com.au/sport/australian-bookies-stand-to-lose-staggering-amount-if-trump-wins-c-1481234

[Alan Klein]

Well, if they are free, they can cover or not cover the stories they want, and be pro-Trump or anti-Trump, or whatever else. It's their decision. The Constitution doesn't say the press has to be fair. You are an originalist, so quit complaining about it. I don't remember the press being fair when the Founding Fathers were around, so I don't know why you expect them to be fair now. The next thing you know you'll be complaining that Upton Sinclair didn't also write a book on the favorable aspects of the meat packing industry, or, God forbid, Bob Woodward didn't also write a book on the favorable aspects of the Trump presidency.

I said they can say whatever they want if that's want they want to do.  But Congress should remove their protection from libel lawsuits so they can be treated and sued like every other news and media outlet.  They whole reason Congress gave them that protection was so they would not censor speech of their subscribers which they are doing.  That's what the whole complaint against Twitter was about recently.

[Alan Klein]

The MSM is in a box now, The NYP is posting again on Twitter and the cats out of the bag.  Besides as close as it is to the election the level of potential harm to Joe has been minimized.  Mission accomplished. 

So my question to NBC.  Rudy would not give you the drive ,but gave you the chance to see the data in person.  Why not at least go and check it out? Far easier I guess to claim they had to have the drive first. 

In any case Tucker said at the start of this that he would not share personal or sexual Hunter material.  It’s not some new revelation.

What Hunter did was never the issue.  It's what Joe Biden did or didn't do that's important.

[Manoli]

Going back to that 'not-so-small' issue of voter suppression ...

America has long held itself up as the world’s leading democracy, but it has an equally long history of denying people the right to vote.

To understand how voter suppression is shaping the 2020 election, just look at Texas.  Last month, Texas’s governor, Greg Abbott, a Republican, abruptly issued an order that limited each county in the state to offer one ballot drop box. The move meant that Democratic-friendly Harris county, which covers more than 1,700 square miles and is home to 2.4 million registered voters, could only offer one place for voters to return their ballots. The state of Rhode Island, which is smaller than Harris county, will have more drop-off locations this year.

Denying people the right to vote

[faberryman]

The MSM is in a box now, The NYP is posting again on Twitter and the cats out of the bag.  Besides as close as it is to the election the level of potential harm to Joe has been minimized.  Mission accomplished. 

So my question to NBC.  Rudy would not give you the drive ,but gave you the chance to see the data in person.  Why not at least go and check it out? Far easier I guess to claim they had to have the drive first.

Do you think NBC or anyone else has an obligation to cover the story? I don't think Fox has an obligation to cover the story, but if they want to incur the time and expense of doing so, then that is okay with me. Who knows, Fox may have the scoop of all scoops, and other members of the news media will regret their decision not to spend time covering it. Does Fox cover the story in its news shows or only in its opinion shows? Is Brett Baier covering the story for example? I don't know.

As far as the New York Post's Twitter feed being back, I went to it and scrolled through the tweets for a while and didn't see anything about the story, but then I don't know how to use Twitter very well, so my not finding anything may be the result of my own ineptitude.  Most people probably know how to use Twitter and so presumably have easy access to whatever the New York Post is tweeting about the story. I don't know how many people look to the New York Post as their source of news. Do they have a national circulation? I have always considered the New York Post to be a tabloid, so I have never paid any attention to them. Maybe I have made an error in judgment in that regard. I also went to the New York Post website and didn't see anything about the story, except that the New York Post picked up 190,000 new followers to its Twitter feed during the period it was being blocked or whatever, which really didn't seem that many to me. Perhaps I overlooked something.

[Craig Lamson]

Going back to that 'not-so-small' issue of voter suppression ...

I would have to research it again to confirm but I believe it was a Texas Election law from before this election that there would only be one collection box per county. So follow the law, or if you don’t like it make new law.  Just don’t think it’s ok to have a court change the law during an election.

[Craig Lamson]

Do you think NBC or anyone else has an obligation to cover the story? I don't think Fox has an obligation to cover the story, but if they want to incur the time and expense of doing so, then that is okay with me. Who knows, Fox may have the scoop of all scoops, and other members of the news media will regret their decision not to spend time covering it. Does Fox cover the story in its news shows or only in its opinion shows? Is Brett Baier covering the story for example? I don't know.

As far as the New York Post's Twitter feed being back, I went to it and scrolled through the tweets for a while and didn't see anything about the story, but then I don't know how to use Twitter very well, so my not finding anything may be the result of my own ineptitude.  Most people probably know how to use Twitter and so presumably have easy access to whatever the New York Post is tweeting about the story. I don't know how many people look to the New York Post as their source of news. Do they have a national circulation? I have always considered the New York Post to be a tabloid, so I have never paid any attention to them. Maybe I have made an error in judgment in that regard. I also went to the New York Post website and didn't see anything about the story, except that the New York Post picked up 190,000 new followers to its Twitter feed during the period it was being blocked or whatever, which really didn't seem that many to me. Perhaps I overlooked something.

No media outlet had any Duty to report this story.  They can report what they want, and not reporting is taken at their potential peril.

This story is most likely done unless the Reps win.  Congress might continue.  But the story was newsworthy and voters deserved coverage,   The cabal did its job, and suppressed the story long enough to try and get Joe over the finish line.  But the question remains, did the press act responsibly and ultimately I think this will become the over-riding legacy of this issue.  I think in the end the press loses.  Imagine if Trump wins, and he just might, that the press hurt themselves for nothing.

I don’t know if you follow Glenn Greenwald. He was one of the founders of the Intercept.  He recently quit after his own editors refused to run his story of this affair.  I hate the outlets but the Daily Mail printed his piece in its entirety.  It’s a long read but well worth the time regardless of which side you take.  You should read it.


Glenn Greenwood’s Biden laptop story.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8898085/GLENN-GREENWALDS-attack-medias-conspiracy-silence-Hunter-Bidens-laptops.html

[Manoli]

I would have to research it again to confirm but I believe it was a Texas Election law from before this election that there would only be one collection box per county.

That would be good to know. Should that be the case, it directly contradicts the  "Last month, Texas’s governor, Greg Abbott, a Republican, abruptly issued an order that limited each county in the state to offer one ballot drop box."

Why this election calls into question whether America is a democracy

[faberryman]

I don’t know if you follow Glenn Greenwald. He was one of the founders of the Intercept.  He recently quit after his own editors refused to run his story of this affair.  I hate the outlets but the Daily Mail printed his piece in its entirety.  It’s a long read but well worth the time regardless of which side you take.  You should read it.

Glenn Greenwood’s Biden laptop story.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8898085/GLENN-GREENWALDS-attack-medias-conspiracy-silence-Hunter-Bidens-laptops.html

I didn’t know anything about Greenwald or the Intercept, so I looked them up and learned a little bit about them. I did read in the commie/lib media that some writers or editors or whatnot at the New York Post refused to allow their bylines to be attached to the story, so there appears to be some disagreement about the issue. I think I also read in the commie/lib media that the story was first pitched to the WSJ and they turned down, so it was offered to New York Post and they ended up with it. More disagreement.

[Craig Lamson]

I didn’t know anything about Greenwald or the Intercept, so I looked them up and learned a little bit about them. I did read in the commie/lib media that some writers or editors or whatnot at the New York Post refused to allow their bylines to be attached to the story, so there appears to be some disagreement about the issue. I think I also read in the commie/lib media that the story was first pitched to the WSJ and they turned down, so the New York Post ended up with it. More disagreement.

That appears to be the case but does it change the situation?  The emails have been verified.  The story got squashed unlike many they ran with less verification about Trump.  If that works for you, ok.  Not for me.

Read that Greenwald piece.  It may not change your mind but it will add some additioan perspective.  As you now know, Greenwald is not right wing.

[Alan Goldhammer]

So my question to NBC.  Rudy would not give you the drive ,but gave you the chance to see the data in person.  Why not at least go and check it out? Far easier I guess to claim they had to have the drive first. 

Come on Craig, you can do better than this.  Would the FBI accept an offer such as this one?  You cannot possibly authenticate anything by just going over to Rudy's appartment for a view at some documents that may be real or fabricated.  Forensic analysis doesn't work that way.  It's the same as you sharing a photograph you took without the meta-data.  You could say I took this last week and the meta-data says otherwise.

the fact that Rudy won't share the source material with groups that can do there own authentication speaks volumes.  We still don't know how (or even if) The New York Post authenticated things prior to publication.  The fact that the senior writer of the piece requested not to have his/her name on the article points to something fishy as well.

[Alan Goldhammer]

Do you watch Tucker?  Do you know what the advertising is like in his show?  The lefts ban Tucker attacks took its toll on the big advertisers.  They are long gone.  Fox is not raking in big bucks from Tuckers show.  What they get is eyeballs as he’s the highest rated show in cable prime time.

Why is it only Fox infotainment news shows hemorrhage advertisers?  I don't see major losses at CNN or MSNBC.

[Alan Goldhammer]

I said they can say whatever they want if that's want they want to do.  But Congress should remove their protection from libel lawsuits so they can be treated and sued like every other news and media outlet.  They whole reason Congress gave them that protection was so they would not censor speech of their subscribers which they are doing.  That's what the whole complaint against Twitter was about recently.

Under your scenario I could sue LuLa and possibly Jeremy for censoring posts here.  Jeremy may have immunity because he is a UK citizen.  The Internet companies would likely use the 'fire in the theater' defense.  The Internet platforms can establish terms and conditions and Sullivan v The New York Times is still the relevant barrier to overcome for any plaintiff.  Just look at how successful Congressman Devin Nunes has been in his myriad of libel lawsuits.  He is batting .000.

[Alan Klein]

Going back to that 'not-so-small' issue of voter suppression ...

That's a slanted comparison.  You're showing a map of the State of Rhode Island and comparing it to one county in Texas.  If you show the Texas state map, it would show 254 drop off locations for the state, one for each county.  254!  Mileage in Texas is beside the point.  Everyone drives or knows someone who can drop off your ballot.  If you can't do that, vote in person near your home or mail in your ballot.  You have to take some responsibility to vote.  There're plenty of options.    Rhode Island has a total of 41 drop off locations.  I believe Texas has one department of motor vehicles per county.  If you can manage that, then you can manage one drop off location to vote assuming you can;t find a mailbox on your corner.   It costs money and higher taxes to operate and man additional drop off locations.  I assume the drop off location are the county government office so it's easy and cheap to set it up in those locations.

I've never voted by dropping off my ballot in my entire life and know no one who ever did. I've always voted in person or by mail.  Simple enough.  This is a tempest in a teapot.

[Alan Goldhammer]

I would have to research it again to confirm but I believe it was a Texas Election law from before this election that there would only be one collection box per county. So follow the law, or if you don’t like it make new law.  Just don’t think it’s ok to have a court change the law during an election.

There are a lot of ambiguities in election law.  All of the Federal courts including The Supreme Court have been wildly inconsistent not only this year but in years past.  According to your statement above, Bush v Gore was incorrectly decided as The Supreme Court overruled local election law!!!! Scalia expressed concerns about this exact point: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/scalia-thought-bush-v-gore-legal-rationale-was-a-piece-of-s-t-but-backed-it-anyway

[Craig Lamson]

Come on Craig, you can do better than this.  Would the FBI accept an offer such as this one?  You cannot possibly authenticate anything by just going over to Rudy's appartment for a view at some documents that may be real or fabricated.  Forensic analysis doesn't work that way.  It's the same as you sharing a photograph you took without the meta-data.  You could say I took this last week and the meta-data says otherwise.

the fact that Rudy won't share the source material with groups that can do there own authentication speaks volumes.  We still don't know how (or even if) The New York Post authenticated things prior to publication.  The fact that the senior writer of the piece requested not to have his/her name on the article points to something fishy as well.

The point here Alan is that that they did not even try have a look.  The fact is Rudy DID share the material with people who could and DID do the work to verify the material.

And course the FBI had the material. They are using it as part of an investigation into Hunter We know that because Bobulinski was interviewed as a material witness. 

The MSM did their job, they protected Biden.  I'm so glad that makes you happy.