US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)

Biden

14 (66.7%)

Trump

7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm

[faberryman]

You can't?  You remain essentially an optimist then. Admirable.

I'm probably just in denial.

[Alan Klein]

I can't even believe what I am reading. Holy smokes.

Yes.  It's pretty amazing in this day and age that a VP pick would be based on gender and race.

[Robert Roaldi]

Fair enough! If you can easily get the DNA profile of Kamala Harris, then do so. Case closed. 

My impression is, a major reason she was chosen as VP running mate is because she would appeal to Black American voters because of her Black African ancestry. I'm just questioning how much Black African ancestry does she really have, in percentage terms.

It's purely a matter of general interest for me. I'm not involved in US politics, but I do place value on accurate facts.
I found the following statement in Wikipedia.

"Donald Harris claims to be descended from slaveowner Hamilton Brown, the namesake of Brown's Town, a claim Snopes rated as unproven."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_J._Harris

You can't let this horse shit go, can you.

Is anyone going to vote for Donald Harris? So the guy believes in some family legend. Any episode of Antiques Roadshow brings out people like that.

[faberryman]

He's worth $3 billion.  Employed thousands of people. How industrious do you want him to be? Think of all the photos you'd have to sell to equal that. 

I thought he was worth $10 billion. What happened?

The guys that mow my lawn are industrious. They can knock out the job in a hurry. Maybe we should elect on of them as president.

I really don't consider photography as an industry. Joe and Craig may feel differently.

[hogloff]

Yes.  It's pretty amazing in this day and age that a VP pick would be based on gender and race.

Do you think Trump did not have gender and race in mind when he picked Pence? Could you even imagine Trump picking a black women as VP?

[JoeKitchen]

I thought he was worth $10 billion. What happened?

The guys that mow my lawn are industrious. They can knock out the job in a hurry. Maybe we should elect on of them as president.

I really don't consider photography as an industry. Joe and Craig may feel differently.

Well regardless of what you think, my wife and I make a good living in this ... ummm ... visual arts money making pursuit as a "lens-based worker" (no joke, this is a recent woke term for photographer I recently came across, you should look up the Photo Bill of Rights for a good laugh). 

[faberryman]

Well regardless of what you think, my wife and I make a good living in this ... ummm ... visual arts money making pursuit, so much so we are looking at getting a second house.

It certainly can be a profitable business and I congratulate you on your success. Maybe I am being too parochial in my views. When I think of industry, I think of things like steel and mining and railroads, not owning some hotels and golf courses or being a photographer. Probably just showing my age.

[JoeKitchen]

Yes.  It's pretty amazing in this day and age that a VP pick would be based on gender and race.

Do you think Trump did not have gender and race in mind when he picked Pence? Could you even imagine Trump picking a black women as VP?

The difference is Biden is openly making it about race and gender.  I dont Trump would care actually, but even if he did, he would not publicly announce it. 

Although I feel race and gender, and looks, really dont matter to the average person, nor should, if you make your choice based largely on those traits, you are then legitimizing critiques from people who are concerned with those traits.  It's a bad strategy, based on Woke politics, which is inherently racist anyway. 

Obama, in one of his early interviews, talked about how if he was not chosen, it would not be because he is black, just that he did not have the message people were looking for at the time.  Although some did want to make his race an issue, since he would not even hint at openly campaigning on it, those attacks could never get any credence.  Also, him being black certainly helped him with some parts of the electorate, but it was organic and not something he was promoting, so it never became an issue with him directly (in 2008). 

As has been said, Obama is one of the most talented politicians in history (that does not mean I like his policies all of a sudden).  Biden is not. 

[JoeKitchen]

It certainly can be a profitable business and I congratulate you on your success. Maybe I am being too parochial in my views. When I think of industry, I think of things like steel and mining and railroads, not owning some hotels and golf courses or being a photographer. Probably just showing my age.

No worries, I was pretty sure that was what you were getting at.  I tend to think of industry being more based in reality and physical things too. 

[Alan Klein]

Do you think Trump did not have gender and race in mind when he picked Pence? Could you even imagine Trump picking a black women as VP?

Trump picked Pence because of his strong connection with the Christian right, that he would help cement their vote. And yes.  I believe Trump would pick a black woman or a Martian for that matter if it helped him win or make money. 

The fact is it's the Democrats that are playing racial and gender politics by insisting the VP be a black woman eliminating many qualified people from the selection process. We wind up with poor candidates and elected officials.    The country is hurt when that happens. Do you think Biden is the best the Democrats could have done? It's a sorry situation.

[faberryman]

Yes.  It's pretty amazing in this day and age that a VP pick would be based on gender and race.

You do realize that picking a white male as your running mate is a selection based on gender and race. Add religion to the mix and you end up with Mike Pence. His only other qualification is that he is an obsequious toady. Trump couldn't bear to have someone even superficially competent around him, which explains his cabinet picks as well.

[Alan Klein]

The difference is Biden is openly making it about race and gender.  I dont Trump would care actually, but even if he did, he would not publicly announce it. 

Although I feel race and gender, and looks, really dont matter to the average person, nor should, if you make your choice based largely on those traits, you are then legitimizing critiques from people who are concerned with those traits.  It's a bad strategy, based on Woke politics, which is inherently racist anyway. 

Obama, in one of his early interviews, talked about how if he was not chosen, it would not be because he is black, just that he did not have the message people were looking for at the time.  Although some did want to make his race an issue, since he would not even hint at openly campaigning on it, those attacks could never get any credence.  Also, him being black certainly helped him with some parts of the electorate, but it was organic and not something he was promoting, so it never became an issue with him directly (in 2008). 

As has been said, Obama is one of the most talented politicians in history (that does not mean I like his policies all of a sudden).  Biden is not. 

The worst part of picking a black person because they're black is that it creates an "us against them" attitude and pits one group against the other.  It adds to racial conflict rather than lessening it.  It doesn't let us get past our past. 

[James Clark]

Trump picked Pence because of his strong connection with the Christian right, that he would help cement their vote.

So Trump acknowledging the importance of the Christian Right demo is cool, but Biden doing the same for women/PoC isn't?

[Alan Klein]

You do realize that picking a white male as your running mate is a selection based on gender and race. Add religion to the mix and you end up with Mike Pence.

Trump didn't eliminate 95% of the American people in his selection process as Biden did.  Looking at what Trump did or didn't is just making excuses for Biden's announced selection based on race.  Playing racial politics won't end well for the country. Don't we already have enough conflict because of it?

[James Clark]

That's all well and good, but I think I'll wait on Ray's two-pronged report on her ancestry and her father's views on current affairs.

Also the results of her debate with Mike Pence. Since it will be conducted without an audience, I guess Mike Pence's wife will need to be there to supervise him so he doesn't lose control and drop trou in front of Harris or whatever he is afraid of doing.

 .  I laughed

[faberryman]

.  I laughed

Just trying to keep it light so no one goes postal on us.

[faberryman]

Alan, you appear to be a student of politics. Perhaps you could explain to our international audience the concept of "balancing the ticket".

[JoeKitchen]

Alan, you appear to be a student of politics. Perhaps you could explain to our international audience the concept of "balancing the ticket".

Balancing the ticket is a false premise and one that is not often followed nor advised.  Chris Cillizza had a good write up on this 4 days ago. 

Everything you've heard about picking a vice president is wrong

"Number one, is this a person who could be president literally tomorrow? Secondly, is this a person that I could work with, that I would want to work with day in and day out, in good times and hard times, inside the White House to serve our country? And third, can this person help me win? And with Tim Kaine, I answered all three of those questions affirmatively." HRC

You largely should pick someone you are comfortable with.  Obama and Biden got along really well, as does Trump and Pence.  This is why their campaigns worked so well. 

Biden and Harris do not get along, and as much as Biden says otherwise, I think it will be issue, just like with McCain and Palin, who also did not get along.  The sad thing is, Biden and Klobuchar got along really well, but Biden screwed himself by being short sighted in a moment of weakness where he thought he needed to prove his woke bona fides. 

[Alan Klein]

Alan, you appear to be a student of politics. Perhaps you could explain to our international audience the concept of "balancing the ticket".

Declaring you favor one race over the other in a selection process will perpetuate conflict between the races.  A president is supposed to be president of all the people.  By declaring to the world as Biden did that he'll favor one group if he gets elected, it forces other groups to band together to defend their interests.  It creates the very race fights you're trying to avoid and put behind us. This does not add to harmony in the country.  Unfortunately, that the way the whole Democrat party operates when it comes to race.  That's a lot different than balancing the ticket by picking for VP a "favorite son", let's say a governor of a state you wish to carry in the election. 

[James Clark]

Declaring you favor one race over the other in a selection process will perpetuate conflict between the races.  A president is supposed to be president of all the people.  By declaring to the world as Biden did that he'll favor one group if he gets elected, it forces other groups to band together to defend their interests.

Irony is dead, desiccated, burned, buried, and shot into the sun on a G**D**n rocket.